Hood pins on old beat up 1960s muscle cars?

[Zargon]

Well that's just a poor design. It takes what? 2 or 3 tapped holes to accept a latch catch?

pins are superior. 2 points of contact instead of one.

I suppose fixing it properly is out of the question?

just because you are a baller with a new duc doesnt mean other people can waste $$ on silly things like hood latches when pins work better anyways

 

[foghorn67]

Another Jules, "I don't understand, therefore I hate" thread.

 

[JCH13]

I suppose fixing it properly is out of the question?

Well, you typically find them on three types of cars:

Drag/race cars, where ounces matter (at least on principle).

Show cars, where every little bit of chrome helps give the judges a big rager for your car.

Beat-up old neglected cars, where the cost of properly fixing the hood latch would surpass the amount that's been spent on tires in the last 6 years.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Well, you typically find them on three types of cars:

Drag/race cars, where ounces matter (at least on principle).

Show cars, where every little bit of chrome helps give the judges a big rager for your car.

Beat-up old neglected cars, where the cost of properly fixing the hood latch would surpass the amount that's been spent on tires in the last 6 years.

That would be the car I saw this morning.

And for the record, I like those 60s fastback Mustangs.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

For some reason the main thing I think when I see hood pins is that the little stainless steel cable retaining them might scratch the paint when the car is at speed and/or be annoying to look at while driving. I recognize both of these are probably non-issues, however.

 

[IcePickFreak]

That would be the car I saw this morning.

And for the record, I like those 60s fastback Mustangs.

Well like I said, a lot of those fast back mustangs (along with some other 60s era cars) came factory with hood pins. The latches on those old cars opened up from the outside (you didn't have to pop it from inside) so they really weren't locked down that well.

 

[Throckmorton]

American rice.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Well like I said, a lot of those fast back mustangs (along with some other 60s era cars) came factory with hood pins. The latches on those old cars opened up from the outside (you didn't have to pop it from inside) so they really weren't locked down that well.

I think the only Mustang that came with hood pins was the GT350...which was built to go factory racing. I don't think any of the other cars had them. They had them because when racing you might bump the car in front and damage the hood latch which could cause the hood to fly open. There really isn't much use for them on a street car though that I can see.

 

[96Firebird]

For some reason the main thing I think when I see hood pins is that the little stainless steel cable retaining them might scratch the paint when the car is at speed and/or be annoying to look at while driving. I recognize both of these are probably non-issues, however.

The cable is usually coated to prevent rusting (if it isn't stainless) and scratching.

 

[IcePickFreak]

I think the only Mustang that came with hood pins was the GT350...which was built to go factory racing. I don't think any of the other cars had them. They had them because when racing you might bump the car in front and damage the hood latch which could cause the hood to fly open. There really isn't much use for them on a street car though that I can see.

Nope the Mach 1's and Boss 302's had em as well. When we did about a 2 year resto-mod on a 69 fastback the guy wanted to look like a Mach 1 (he had a build 351C in it) I read endless stuff on the factory trim/options.

Got to keep in mind too this is back in the day where "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" worked. Not that Mustangs raced stockcar stuff, but people wanted the race car look. TBH I would have pins on any car with that old style latch because they really weren't that great. Sure sucks when the hood pops up at speed and takes out the windshield and roof.

Mach 1 wannabe we did (yeah, painter messed up on the hood stripe that later got corrected)

 

[hanoverphist]

And this. My hinge decided to go south while cruising at 90mph.

Maybe those weren't designed for 90mph.

my friends olds back in HS popped on him while we were... keeping up with each other... on the freeway. it smashed his windshield and dented the roof. scared the hell out of the people riding with him, and took a bit of skill to get it off the freeway while leaning out the window.

we replaced it with a fiberglass hood and pins.

 

[hanoverphist]

Poll needs moar "Only on my VTEC Civic, yo"

i totally would have voted for that, yo

 

[Howard]

Remember when NASCAR actually raced real cars? That's what people wanted.

And modern cars' airflow actually pushes the hood down. Those old clunkers were trying to rip the hood, roof, mirrors, everything off when you hit 100.

When air slows down going into the engine bay, it increases in pressure and therefore exerts more force upwards than the air moving on top of the hood exerts downward... no?

 

[exdeath]

Lol no. High velocity air flow moving over the top of the hood causes uplift regardless of the type of car, regardless of grill or engine bay openings, or over any surface like the roof of your house for that matter. It's the air moving over the top that creates low pressure and "sucks" the surface... even when there is only 14.7 psi static pressure at 0 mph on the under side.

Anyone who thinks high speed air moving over something pushes it down should avoid engineering trades :awe:

 

[pcgeek11]

I don't get it. You're telling me that we can't make a latch that will keep the hood from flying off at 110mph? What was the top speed of a 1968 Mustang Fastback anyway? 130mph? Maybe? We can make cars now that can go 260 mph stock that don't need hood pins. My 8 year old Maxima can go 120-130mph and it doesn't need hood pins.

Hood pins, ghetto or not?


Moved from OT

Anandtech Moderator
KeithTalent

The point of hood pins was not a cool factor. It was to:

1. Reduce the weight of the hinges.
2. Make hood removal for working on the engine easier.
3. Fiberglass hoods do not stand up well to hinges and latches.
4. And they were cool in the 60's and early 70's.

 

[SparkyJJO]

OP fail.

 

[Bartman39]

The point of hood pins was not a cool factor. It was to:

1. Reduce the weight of the hinges.
2. Make hood removal for working on the engine easier.
3. Fiberglass hoods do not stand up well to hinges and latches.
4. And they were cool in the 60's and early 70's.

No doubt... My former 74 Nova SS drag car had a fiberglass hood and with 4 hood pins it was and easy 1 person lift off (very light) and would not dream of using hinges... Did make it a lot easier to work on the LS7 BBC and for sure when setting the valves (had stud girdles)... I think I still have a spare set in some of my junk...?

 

[Throckmorton]

Lol no. High velocity air flow moving over the top of the hood causes uplift regardless of the type of car, regardless of grill or engine bay openings, or over any surface like the roof of your house for that matter. It's the air moving over the top that creates low pressure and "sucks" the surface... even when there is only 14.7 psi static pressure at 0 mph on the under side.

It depends on the angle of the hood and the windshield. There's a high pressure area from the hood/windshield boundary that extends forward. How far forward it goes depends on the aerodynamics of the individual car.

Anyone who thinks high speed air moving over something pushes it down should avoid engineering trades :awe:

Really? So spoilers generate lift?

 

[96Firebird]

Really? So spoilers generate lift?

Negative lift. :awe:

But really, it depends on the shape and which direction it is facing. Who knows, maybe someone would put a rear spoiler on backwards to have no rear traction at high speeds...

 

[exdeath]

A spoiler is an airfoil with both surfaces exposed to laminar flow of the same initial and final velocity designed to generate lift in a particular direction.

A vehicle hood is clearly not comparable, except to someone trying too hard to out-smart the internet. A hood is more like the roof of a house: static atmospheric pressure on the closed side, dynamic flow / pressure on the exposed side, causing uplift and load reversals in a direction that is not desired.

Most people assume it's air ramming through the grill or engine compartment pushing the hood open from below, but it's the air flowing over the top that is causing the pressure differential. The hood would want to fly open even with a fully blocked off nose and under paneling. 14.7 psi static atmosphere on the under side + moving fast enough to reduce the top side to half of that = 17,000 lbs of uplift on a 4 foot square hood. A mere difference of .2 psi would cause 500 lbs of uplift, more than enough to lift a 50 lb piece of plastic/sheet metal.

 

[Throckmorton]

A spoiler is an airfoil with both surfaces exposed to laminar flow of the same initial and final velocity designed to generate lift in a particular direction.

Tell that to the Viper

A vehicle hood is clearly not comparable, except to someone trying too hard to out-smart the internet. A hood is more like the roof of a house: static atmospheric pressure on the closed side, dynamic flow / pressure on the exposed side, causing uplift and load reversals in a direction that is not desired.

My point is that the Bernoulli effect is overstated. The roots of that are in the stupid textbooks that claim that planes fly due to the Bernoulli effect, when in reality most lifts comes from the angle of the wing redirecting airflow.

Most people assume it's air ramming through the grill or engine compartment pushing the hood open from below, but it's the air flowing over the top that is causing the pressure differential. The hood would want to fly open even with a fully blocked off nose and under paneling. 14.7 psi static atmosphere on the under side + moving fast enough to reduce the top side to half of that = 17,000 lbs of uplift on a 4 foot square hood.

17,000lbs?? If that were the case, even a heavy 4000lb car would take off into the stratosphere.

 

[exdeath]

Tell that to the Viper

My point is that the Bernoulli effect is overstated. The roots of that are in the stupid textbooks that claim that planes fly due to the Bernoulli effect, when in reality most lifts comes from the angle of the wing redirecting airflow.



17,000lbs?? If that were the case, even a heavy 4000lb car would take off into the stratosphere.

Stupid engineers, stupid physics, stupid text books... Fleabag?

I minored math/physics for CS/EE and work in an aerospace/defense environment. Don't try to lecture me with wikipedia.

Oh and before that I was a certified truss technician and designed roof trusses.

I don't know anything about wind and lift forces obviously.

 

[Throckmorton]

Stupid engineers, stupid physics, stupid text books... Fleabag?

I minored math/physics for CS/EE and work in an aerospace/defense environment. Don't try to lecture me with wikipedia.

Find me an engineer that says the hood of a car generates 17,000 lb of lift.


Yes, textbooks overstate the Bernoulli effect, which is how the myth has been perpetuated. I've even heard that the FAA asks on a test how an airplane generates lift, and pilots are supposed to answer "Bernoulli!" And yet everybody who has actually flown knows that lift primarily is determined by the angle of attack of the wing.

I would post the NASA articles on this topic, but you work in aerospace so you should know all this.

 

[exdeath]

Yes boundary layer effect "throwing" the air is a large component of WING lift... a hood is not a wing. The hood of a car does not get analyzed as a wing, but more like the roof of a house in 90 mph winds.

17,000 lbs IF moving fast enough to only have half the pressure on the top. I was demonstrating the principle, youd have to be moving like 1000mph to see that. At actual car speeds, tenths of psi changes from 20 to 100 mph is enough to cause several hundreds of lbs of uplift.

Same reason I laugh when I see people trying to drive down the street with a mattress on the roof of their car and they have their hands out the window thinking they are going to be able to hold on to it.

A NASA article? Can you back up anything you ever say without "a link to an article on teh internetz"?

 

[exdeath]

Hood opening at high speed is caused by uplift from the moving air flowing over the top, not air ramming in from below.

That is a solid fact. And it has nothing to do with wings, planes, missiles, spoilers, or longcat.