Honor student expelled for story she wrote in private journal

[alkemyst]

I have come to the conclusion that many here are utterly idiotic....

The purpose of school especially High School is not to learn facts, it is to learn free thinking and socialization. Both of which are really done well with a journal.

What do we ban next, no freedom of thought, you can't think that you will do something wrong?

What about dreams? I dream I do all sorts of illegal stuff and I can fly too....will I do those things ever or attempt them? perhaps, but not due to my dreams.

What do we do about future screenwriters? Do all there Senior Literature pages have to be politically correct and 'safe'?

WTF?

Also most criminals are not very smart, the smart criminals are in a very large minority. There are tons of schools that have kids attacking teachers everyday...no one wants to hear about the poor, stupid kid doing it...but when it's a honor student, esp. a white middle class or better one, then that's news.

Does anyone think anymore or even know what goes on outside their home/job/school?

Å

 

[Orsorum]

There are two main issues I thought of when reading through this.

First, why did the teacher a) keep the diary overnight, and b) why was she reading it? Both of these are actions I would considerate inappropriate when performed by a teacher.

Second, there is a difference between writing in abstract and writing with intent. If the girl was merely musing and writing a fictional story, that is different (very different) than writing about three weeks from now, 11AM, she's thinking about bringing in a hypodermic needle tipped with smallpox to use on her geometry teacher. It is the same (IMO) as with most examples of conspiracy.

 

[allisolm]

The Fulton County school system on Friday temporarily rescinded the expulsion of a Roswell High School freshman who wrote a fictional tale in her private journal about a student who dreams she kills a teacher.

School officials said at a news conference Friday they would allow Rachel Boim, 14, to return to Roswell High School until the school board hears more about the incident.

Good! That makes more sense than expelling her immediately from that school.

 

[Eli]

Wow.. Just.. wow.

I see they've seen the error of their ways, and rescinded the expulsion.

Good.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: allisolm
Handing in those words on paper would be a direct threat of physical violence, which this diary entry was NOT.

Says you.

The Fulton County people said they were "writings that describe the threat of bodily harm toward a school employee."

...and the Fulton County opinion, not yours, is the one that counts.

Yes, but it's been quite fully determined that the cognitive capacity of the entire Fulton County district can be exceeded by that of a slightly smarter-than-average avacado.

But hey, if the general public wants to keep bending over for Uncle Sam, because He Knows Best, go ahead. I'll be content with my incorrect freedom and liberty.

- M4H

 

[skychief]

I honestly can't believe that some people are all right with this. This is like something from the movie Minority Report. Most of these kids who committ these horrible crimes would have never done so if they had one thing in thier lives, thier parents. IMO this is a clear violation of her freedom of speech, but whats even better is that it wasn't even intended to be made public. Whats next King and Koontz in prison because they write stories that happen to be filled with horrific murders. We can not be all right with giving up any rights because we live in fearful times for it's a practice that could very easily spiral out of control. We need to wake up and realize that we are walking a very dangerous line here and start taking notice of the liberties that are slowly being taken away from us. It's alot easier to stop freedoms from being taken than trying to get them back when they are gone.

 

[TravisT]

Why did she have her diary at school in the first place? I'm not trying to lighten the situation but having anything like that in your diary and then bringing it to school is ignorance within itself. You never know what kids are going to do these days and it looks like our judicial system is taking extreme measures to protect our own children. I don't see this as a huge problem but more of a misunderstanding.

 

[Mill]

jumpr= Normally we are on the same page politically, but this time I have to disagree with you. We can't arrest or discipline someone for fictional writing.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: TravisT
Why did she have her diary at school in the first place? I'm not trying to lighten the situation but having anything like that in your diary and then bringing it to school is ignorance within itself. You never know what kids are going to do these days and it looks like our judicial system is taking extreme measures to protect our own children. I don't see this as a huge problem but more of a misunderstanding.

Apparently, she was wanting to share some of her writings and drawings with her peers. Her journal is full of short stories, poetry, and drawings.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: whaleskinrug
In America today almost everyone is an "honor student"

Unless they had some other evidence that she was a threat this is way out of line. We aren't going to solve our societal problems by sanitizing the minds of our children.

What other evidence do you NEED? She wrote about killing a teacher. If one of your coworkers forwarded you an email about blowing your boss' head off, wouldn't you at LEAST take the email to HR?

So Steven King should be arrested for writing about people who murder other people? When you carry your logic out to its full implications, it is clearly absurd.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

From the article:

Rachel Boim, 14, who moved here from suburban Denver, about 20 minutes from Columbine High School,

Someone please explain how that is relevant at all. The only, and I mean only, possible reason to include that fact is to influence the readership and to attept to force them to draw a conclusion a-priori of the facts. The implication clearly is that since she lived near Columbine, she must naturally be a latent killer. Complete bullshiat. Yellow journalism is alive and well my friends.

ZV

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
From the article:

Rachel Boim, 14, who moved here from suburban Denver, about 20 minutes from Columbine High School,

Someone please explain how that is relevant at all. The only, and I mean only, possible reason to include that fact is to influence the readership and to attept to force them to draw a conclusion a-priori of the facts. The implication clearly is that since she lived near Columbine, she must naturally be a latent killer. Complete bullshiat. Yellow journalism is alive and well my friends.

ZV

I was considering pointing that out earlier, but got overwhelmed by the tidal wave of pro-thought police sentiment. I've got a spare scalpel - care to join me in lobotomizing a few folk? Judging by this thread, there'd be no shortage of volunteers, so I'll need a hand.

- M4H

 

[TravisT]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Is a fictional journal entry sufficient to convict someone of conspiracy to commit murder?

If there's a school shooting and a journal with such thoughts and statements surfaces during an investigation, then yes, there is enough evidence to convict someone of conspiracy. However, I'm not treating this as a crime. This girl hasn't been convicted of ANYTHING. All I'm saying is that she needs to be removed from the school and subject to disciplinary action.

LOL man, how do you go through life being so paranoid?

It is not a matter of paranoia it is a matter of public safety. If the judge let this girl back ni school and this did happen, who do you think would be partly blamed? Or if the teacher ignored this and it happened, who would be blamed?

The girl was stupid enough to bringi t to school and make it public business, who's to say she's not stupid enough to follow what her dream showed her?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
From the article:

Rachel Boim, 14, who moved here from suburban Denver, about 20 minutes from Columbine High School,

Someone please explain how that is relevant at all. The only, and I mean only, possible reason to include that fact is to influence the readership and to attept to force them to draw a conclusion a-priori of the facts. The implication clearly is that since she lived near Columbine, she must naturally be a latent killer. Complete bullshiat. Yellow journalism is alive and well my friends.

ZV

Hmm, when I read that I was thinking more along the lines that the story she wrote was somehow dealing with the issues of the Columbine Massacre which she would be familiar with growing up so close to it. Though, I have a feeling that the school administration was thinking more along the lines of, "Crap, why did we have to get one of these screwed up suburbian Denver kids?"

 

[SXMP]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

it takes brains to commit some of society's most dastardly crimes. they may have had poor upbringings but generally are high IQ.

Don't confuse history's famous criminals with the masses of histories stupid ones. Most criminals are criminals because they are unable to succeed in society, playing by the rules. And that is because they are stupid. The average person in jail for robbery, murder, etc. I guarantee you was not a honour student.

Just a slight interjection: the perfect criminal is the one no one ever knows about.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: jumpr
It's sad, but I honestly think the school did the right thing. It's sad that schools have to stifle creativity in the name of safety, but evidence surrounding many school shootings points to things like journal entries, stories, videos and essays that SHOULD have tipped off administrators, but didn't.

This girl should have kept her journal FAR away from school with a story like that in it.

"Those that would give up an essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

Benjamin Franklin

This girl didn't give up her right to free speech. If she had kept her journal out of school and safe in her own home, we wouldn't be discussing this. However, like I said, this girl brought her journal to school, which takes her threat to another level, and deserves disciplinary action.

How exactly are you rationaling that just because she brought the book to school, that it automatically becomes a 'higher threat' level?

Because "the pen is mightier than the sword"?

I'm still waiting on moshquerade's answer to the question on if she thinks today's jails are filled with honor roll drug addicts.

i wasn't referring to drug addicts, but the type of crime being brought up in this thread. drug addicts have mental issues.

Here are your exact quotes:

most criminals are honor students

it takes brains to commit some of society's most dastardly crimes. they may have had poor upbringings but generally are high IQ.

But again, where's your evidence?

are you a lawyer? cause i'm not on trial. i expressed an opinion.

When you express an opinion, you must also carry the burden of supporting your opinion. This isn't some nice touchy-feely world like the idiots in the Humanities at college want you to believe. Every time you offer an opinion you put that opinion on trial and you are obligated to defend it and defend it well if you want anyone to take it remotely seriously. All opinion are NOT equal my friend. The opinion with evidence is infinitely superior to the opinion without evidence. And, unless I see something that changes drastically in the rest of this thread, your opinion is clearly of the unsupported type.

ZV

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: TravisT

The girl was stupid enough to bringi t to school and make it public business, who's to say she's not stupid enough to follow what her dream showed her?

IT WASN'T HER DREAM! It is called a fictional story! She wrote a story about a fictional kid that falls asleep in class and dreams they shoot a fictional teacher. Then, dealing with waking up and realizing what you dreamt. Were talking two steps from reality here folks.

This was one of many stories in her journal that she has written. Completely different from the types of clues that the Columbine muderers left behind.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TravisT

Originally posted by: Moralpanic
LOL man, how do you go through life being so paranoid?

It is not a matter of paranoia it is a matter of public safety. If the judge let this girl back ni school and this did happen, who do you think would be partly blamed? Or if the teacher ignored this and it happened, who would be blamed?

The girl was stupid enough to bringi t to school and make it public business, who's to say she's not stupid enough to follow what her dream showed her?

The teacher and the school's administration made it public. Sure, the girl took a risk of having the journal confiscated by passing it around to a classmate but some semblance of privacy against the teacher having read the contents could still have been assumed by the girl.

 

[Thraxen]

Sure, the girl took a risk of having the journal confiscated by passing it around to a classmate but some semblance of privacy against the teacher having read the contents could still have been assumed by the girl.

Again, that's the bottom line. She wrote it, brought it to school, and was passing it in the middle of class. She brought this upon herself. It was stupid to write a story like that and bring it to school. Period.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Sure, the girl took a risk of having the journal confiscated by passing it around to a classmate but some semblance of privacy against the teacher having read the contents could still have been assumed by the girl.

Again, that's the bottom line. She wrote it, brought it to school, and was passing it in the middle of class. She brought this upon herself. It was stupid to write a story like that and bring it to school. Period.

Hell, maybe she even forgot that story was even in there if it was filled with other writings and short stories and drawings.

Expulsion was way too severe and it seems the school board may have a bit better judgment that the school's own administration.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
From the article:

Rachel Boim, 14, who moved here from suburban Denver, about 20 minutes from Columbine High School,

Someone please explain how that is relevant at all. The only, and I mean only, possible reason to include that fact is to influence the readership and to attept to force them to draw a conclusion a-priori of the facts. The implication clearly is that since she lived near Columbine, she must naturally be a latent killer. Complete bullshiat. Yellow journalism is alive and well my friends.

ZV

I was considering pointing that out earlier, but got overwhelmed by the tidal wave of pro-thought police sentiment. I've got a spare scalpel - care to join me in lobotomizing a few folk? Judging by this thread, there'd be no shortage of volunteers, so I'll need a hand.

- M4H

Nah, I'm retired from that game. Took too much out of me. Better now for me to just appear to play by their rules and be subversive stealthily.

ZV

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Sure, the girl took a risk of having the journal confiscated by passing it around to a classmate but some semblance of privacy against the teacher having read the contents could still have been assumed by the girl.

Again, that's the bottom line. She wrote it, brought it to school, and was passing it in the middle of class. She brought this upon herself. It was stupid to write a story like that and bring it to school. Period.

You're taking the risk of getting a punch in the mouth by saying "Hi" to me, but would you consider it your fault or mine if it happened?

The teacher should not have kept the journal past the end of class, and should not have opened it. What possible reason could he have for it?

- M4H

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

You're taking the risk of getting a punch in the mouth by saying "Hi" to me, but would you consider it your fault or mine if it happened?

The teacher should not have kept the journal past the end of class, and should not have opened it. What possible reason could he have for it?

- M4H

Probably thought she was writing some secret sex fantasy about him and wanted to read it.

 

[AkumaX]

har har har this is like the argument in minority report

even if she did have the intent, was she really going to do it? can we predict the future?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: AkumaX
har har har this is like the argument in minority report

even if she did have the intent, was she really going to do it? can we predict the future?

I swear, we may as well just change it to Guilty until proven Innocent.