Honestly, do you think the ballots in florida are really that confusing?

[GreenBeret]

As for the legality of these ballots under FL law, the ballot picutered here quite clearly shows Gore/Leiberman in position 5, not in position 4 which is the one right after Bush/Cheney.

fruthermore, some of you act as if Gore asked for a recount. It is required by FL law. Some of the hand recounts, he did request, but not the general recount. Just so no one accuses me of being a "manipulative democrat" I'm a non-partisan, non-voting male of 16 years. I am interested in the laws being followed, what about you?

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Gore already conceeded and then withdrew it (ie. he could have done the honorable thing and saved us from going through this big mess).

 

[Russ]

Bore also stated flatly that he would abide by the results of the recount and, less than 24 hours later, his lackey's filed suit to overturn part of the election. Fortunately, that one is DOA.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Pennstate]

Another reason that might explain there are so many double-punched ballots. I.e. they thought the first 2 holes are for Bush and Chaney, and the second 2 are for Gore and Lieberman. They did say something about the socialist candidate got an unusual number of votes in some counties in FL too.

 

[Buddha Bart]

I got this from a cnn/akamai site that someone linked to in another thread. Check it out, its a picture of the florida ballot box in question.

Ballot

bart

 

[Rebels7]

Well if I had voted in the Florida election and had punched the wrong candidate on the ballot, I quite frankly, would be embarrassed to admit it!!!!

 

[Russ]

Yep, Nader could just as easily argue that he lost votes to Phillips. I wonder just what these "confused" voters thought the arrow meant?

Russ, NCNE

 

[wiin]

Seen the ballot. Not confusing at all. But jessee jackson and bill daley think so. The same ballot was used at Daley's hometown and he didn't think it was confusing then.

19,000 thousand ballots was thrown out. In the last election, 15,000 ballots was thrown out. Same lacation. See the pattern here?

Gore should back out and let President Bush and America move on.

Can anyone verify this: supposedly, Barbara streissand and Alec baldwin
said that should Bust become president, they
would leave the country.

 

[whateverdude]

while I myself understand the ballot, I can see where it would be confusing to someone else, probably elderly's and less-educated. plus, one of the people suing said on tv something about being rushed, so maybe that was part of the problem with people not asking questions.

 

[JellyBaby]

whateverdude,

A few elderly voters who had "senior moments" before, during or after they voted is not grounds to over-turn the Nov. 7th election.

And as stated already many times, the ballot was in their local paper and passed out beforehand. Seniors are always rushed given how they perceive the fourth dimension at their age.

 

[GreenBeret]

It may not be confusing, and i don't hink it is. BUt paper punchouts is a really poor way of doing things.

1) the paper tab might not fall off resulting in a poor computer reading.
2) the ballot might not fall al the way down hence Bush votes would read Reform and Gore votes would read Socialist
3) How do you back up if you mark the wrong thing?

I doubt we'll see these "butterfly" ballots next election.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Have seen the Florida ballots (pictures) and have used that same type of ballot myself. They are not hard to read, at least for me. Were they confusing? That depends on who you are. Were they 100% legal? Absolutely. Hell, they were looked over by Democratic officials prior to the election and newspapers always show a sample ballot before elections. If there were a legitimate problem it would have been detected by one of those two groups before 7 November. I'm sorry that people accidentally voted for someone other than they intended to. However, the ballots were approved by both parties beforehand, you can't go back and change it now.

Aaron Meyer

 

[ride525]

Were they confusing? Yeah, certainly to some...

Were they legal? No, they didn't meet the requirements that you mark to the right of the candidates name.

 

[mosdef]

I haven't read if anyone posted this but the real ballot seems to not have had boxes to indicate where to punch, just arrows. I realistically think that many people could be confused by this.

-mosdef

 

[JellyBaby]

<< I doubt we'll see these &quot;butterfly&quot; ballots next election. >>

GreenBeret,

Some irony: other counties in FL use a completely automated, modernized system. I just saw one demonstrated on TV. I think it's time the FL politicians sent out property assessors en masse to Palm County, revalue every single residence and use the new revenue to bring that high-tech goodness to their county too.

ride525,

Umm, they look legal to me. Check out UG's research.

 

[Zucchini]

By the way, it was ok to throw away 15k ballots last election because they would not change the outcome..this is a different situation all together. You cannot disregard a voters vote

 

[wiin]

&quot;ride525

Senior Member Date Posted: Nov/09/2000 11:10 PM

Were they confusing? Yeah, certainly to some...

Were they legal? No, they didn't meet the requirements that you mark to the right of the candidates name.&quot;

Ride525,
The ballot was sent to all registered voter for inspection. No one complained. After the election, suddenly the ballot is confusing.
Give me a break.

Wanna know what the Democrats did in Milwauki(I think it was). the Democrats went to a homeless shelter, bribed thenm with cigarettes and drove the homeless to the polling station to vote. i though this only happens in third world country. But like paul McCartney said, people are the same wherever you go.

 

[lala]

please excuse me if i'm wrong coz i'm not american, I'm not familiar with the ballot here. In my point of view, logically it should not be any confusion.
As people said, Gore name is second on the right, so they punched on the second hole.
If the case is reversed, Al Gore is the first name on the right instead of Buchanan, what hole would they punch? Will they be able to find any hole to punch for Al Gore. If they answered the second hole.
It's easily to conclude that it's not confusing. If you
Best wishes to your country.

 

[PCAddict]

I'd have a problem with the layout of this ballot, if there weren't any arrows. But, they are right there. They clearly show what hole needs to be punched out. It can't be any clearer than that.

There are stupid people everywhere. People have done the same thing in past elections. Countless ballots have been tossed in election years gone by for having double-selections.

It's unfortunate that it happened, but it wasn't some kind of Republican plot to sabotage Gore. The ballot was designed by a Democrat, both parties signed off on the format, and they put a sample ballot in the newspaper. What more needs to be done?

 

[joshdoe]

This all could very well hardly make a difference in the end, when absentee and overseas ballots are counted. I am certain that Bush will come on top. I think it would be a great idea to have a universal ballot, but that should be decided at a later date. I just hope everything settles soon, and Gore rightly concedes.

 

[MrChicken]

Does anybody but me think that this validates the closer testing of older drivers? If this many cant remember that in the US we do not vote for a Vice President seperately anymore, and never did in their entire life, and that they cant follow the arrow to proper hole to punch, how many of them should drive.
I hope none of them are getting behind the steering wheel of a car.

Also, I saw the stupidest voter in history on TV tonight. After claiming he was a political activist in New York with extensive campaign experience, he says that his ballot was not like it was in New York and he punched the wrong hole. Uh, &quot;hello McFly...&quot; you're in FLORIDA NOW!

 

[JellyBaby]

Indeed. It may not be a bad idea to require every Floridian over age 56 to take mandatory voting courses!

 

[merlocka]

from MSNBC

Florida law specifies that ballots be constructed in such a fashion that voters mark an ?X? in the blank space to the right of the name of the candidate of their choice.


This dude is seriously Lefty biased, but he gave some insight into the law about the format of the ballot.

Of course, I've never written an X in any election I've voted in so I don't see the application of this law.

 

[Format C:]

<< By the way, it was ok to throw away 15k ballots last election because they would not change the outcome..this is a different situation all together. You cannot disregard a voters vote >>



Uhh, sorry, but this has to be about the most uneducated and uninformed statement on this issue that I've seen to date. Its NEVER okay to throw out ballots for ANY reason regardless of their influence on the outcome of a vote, EXCEPT when the ballot cannot be deemed to be a legal one as defined under the law. You have heard of the law havn't you? You know, those rules that are made up and passed that EVERYONE must abide by with ignorance, stupidity, or carelessness not being an excuse for violating them? You remember, those &quot;thingys&quot; that are passed by politicians all the time which a court reads and interprets and then inflicts upon all of us without regard for what our &quot;intentions&quot; were. Maybe you've heard it expressed as &quot;you break the law you have to face the consequences&quot;. Any of that remotely ring a bell, or sound familiar to you at all? Here's one example of &quot;the law&quot; for you...



<< If the elector marks more names than there are persons to be elected to an office, or if it is impossible to determine the elector's choice, his or her ballot shall not be counted for the office; >>



Seems pretty clear to me? Which part of &quot;his or her ballot shall not be counted for the office&quot; was too &quot;confusing&quot; for you? Okay, I'll take it step by step, see if you can keep up with me now...

his or her............ that would be the person present thats voting
ballot................ thats the thingy with the names on it
shall not be counted.. that means its not counted, period
for the office........ as in dog catcher, meter-maid, and YES, even PRESIDENT

Now, does that help you any? Study hard now because here's a test....

Select which phrase best completes the following sentence.

&quot;If a voter selects more than one choice on a ballot that is submitted...&quot;

<_> (A) his or her vote counts for each choice marked.

<_> (B) his or her vote may or may not count based on how close the election results are.

<_> (C) the voter may elect to file suit against the ballot designers for disenfranchisement and demand a re-vote.

<_> (D) the voter should consult his or her yellow pages for the phone numbers of the National Media and Jesse Jackson.

<_> (E) his or her ballot shall not be counted.

Pencils down. How'd you do? You did remember to read and follow the directions and you didn't choose more than one answer now, did you?

 

[AndrewR]

merlocka: You are correct about one thing in your post -- the guy is very biased. The part you forgot is that he's COMPLETELY WRONG. All of the newsies are just parroting information from each other and not looking at the actual laws in the Florida books.

Read here: Go all the way to the bottom.