Honest talk about Muslim extremism

[BoberFett]

There is . . . simply no concept of the separation between mosque and state within orthodox Islam, so that at best the minority religions, including Christianity, can only aspire to toleration and never complete equality. This is totally contrary to the modern Christian notion of church and state, and has been so for centuries.

That's not a Christian notion, it's a secular one. Some Christians would welcome a Christian government.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That's not a Christian notion, it's a secular one. Some Christians would welcome a Christian government.

Just because you try to parlay this Into Christianity does not negate the fact that this is ONLY about Islam......

In Christianity a solely Christian government would work and could be compatable.

Not when talking about Islam.....sorry!

It doesn`t matter whose notion it is the truth about Islam and explains quite a bit as far as the Muslim Activist author is concerned....

 

[Paul98]

I am sure you are good friends with plenty of Muslims...

 

[Paul98]

Just because you try to parlay this Into Christianity does not negate the fact that this is ONLY about Islam......

In Christianity a solely Christian government would work and could be compatable.

Not when talking about Islam.....sorry!

It doesn`t matter whose notion it is the truth about Islam and explains quite a bit as far as the Muslim Activist author is concerned....

LOL, you are blind.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Just because you try to parlay this Into Christianity does not negate the fact that this is ONLY about Islam......

In Christianity a solely Christian government would work and could be compatable.

Not when talking about Islam.....sorry!

It doesn`t matter whose notion it is the truth about Islam and explains quite a bit as far as the Muslim Activist author is concerned....

Not one single sentence makes sense

 

[Atreus21]

Lot's countries have blasphemy laws, Lot's of "Christian majority" countries

Name some. Then we'll compare them to those in Muslim majority countries.

 

[BoberFett]

In Christianity a solely Christian government would work and could be compatable.

Seriously?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Name some. Then we'll compare them to those in Muslim majority countries.

Linked on the previous page. Nothing to compare as all he did was state that Muslim countries were not the only ones to have blasphemy laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

 

[Atreus21]

Linked on the previous page. Nothing to compare as all he did was state that Muslim countries were not the only ones to have blasphemy laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

Looked at that already. There is no comparison.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Looked at that already. There is no comparison.

There is over 50 Muslim majority countries, I suppose you want to just stick to a couple of the worst?
Yes...there is Muslim countries out there with horrible laws

 

[bradly1101]

She argues that violence is embedded in Islam, the religion she was brought up in.

Some would say it is embedded in Christianity and Judaism too. I wonder what the body count is for each religion considering that although America's wars are never couched as religious wars, mostly Christians fight on the American side.

When looking at what's wrong in the world, we rarely grab a mirror.

Christianity can keep up with anybody in the murder contest. You can still find Christians today who will passionately defend the slaughters of the Medieval Crusades. You can use Christianity to kill abortion doctors, massacre Muslims in Bosnia or Kosovo, or launch a preemptive war. Jesus is more flexible than some people might think.

The faithful like to offer qualifiers. “That’s not what [insert religion here] stands for.” “True believers would never engage in [insert incident of maniacal slaughter here].” And sometimes they offer the hilariously un-ironic “they had it coming.”


Those who want to defend their own religion’s violent spasms are right to distance themselves. A careful, intelligent reading of any of the Big Five will turn up appeals to consider the needs of others, exhortations to peace, and an insistence on the basic humanity we all share.


The closest I’ve ever come personally to being killed by terrorists was an incident in London perpetrated by Irish Catholics. Nevertheless, I am fairly comfortable boarding a plane with a priest, even if he has red hair. I understand Catholicism and Irish culture well enough to recognize that the IRA does not represent the values of all Catholics or Irish.


We all recognize the highest values in our own faiths while putting our own more troubling passages into some philosophical perspective. Your culture’s violent rampages are representative of your faith. My culture’s violent rampages are committed by lunatics and outliers who represent no one.


The most violent religion on Earth is any that have people in them. Those who are trying to win elections or ratings by telling us scary Muslim stories are playing a dangerous game. They are calling into question the basic humanity of others, making it easier for us to tolerate their persecution. They’ll get as far as our ignorance and cowardice will allow.

http://communities.washingtontimes....-city/2013/may/1/which-religion-most-violent/

 

[JEDIYoda]

Some would say it is embedded in Christianity and Judaism too. I wonder what the body count is for each religion considering that although America's wars are never couched as religious wars, mostly Christians fight on the American side.

We are discussing Islam not other religions...this author was discussing her religion of Islam!

We all know that there have been many deaths in the name of many religions.......so? That is an old argument....discuss Islam.

It would seem to me that what the author is saying has been well thought out and that deep down the author has Islam in her heart! Something she cares for fervently!
\actually no we don`t need to grab a mirror...that's total BS!! We need to address the issues at hand and not re-address issues that have already been addressed!

For all the good people say about Islam....there are some major hurdles and perhaps one of those hurdles is they need to enter the 21st Century. I don`t know.

Let me leave you with this all my Muslim friends of which I have maybe 6-10....have said they are happy that they are in America where they can worship as Muslims freely and without needing to watch their back!!

 

[alcoholbob]

I am shocked----SHOCKED---that this thread didn't make it more than three posts before the insults flew.

In a hundred years when Europe is Eurabia we won't have this problem anymore so it's simply a transitory phase of resistance.

 

[Blanky]

Looked at that already. There is no comparison.

There really isn't. The blasphemy laws in countries like pakistan and saudi are far onerous than elsewhere.

That said, I am expressly against blasphemy laws anyway, as I am laws about hate speech. I think they are essentially bullshit, and it's good the United States was ahead of the ball on this with the 1st amendment. I'm also happy to see the UK has done away with its blasphemy laws. Canada ought to follow suit. I didn't realize it still had some of that nonsense on the books, even if it's hardly ever the base for any actual charges against people.

 

[Orignal Earl]

There really isn't. The blasphemy laws in countries like pakistan and saudi are far onerous than elsewhere.

That said, I am expressly against blasphemy laws anyway, as I am laws about hate speech. I think they are essentially bullshit, and it's good the United States was ahead of the ball on this with the 1st amendment. I'm also happy to see the UK has done away with its blasphemy laws. Canada ought to follow suit. I didn't realize it still had some of that nonsense on the books, even if it's hardly ever the base for any actual charges against people.

Things are going just fine here in Canada. It's seems we got a nice little balance going on.
You should read up on the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 in the UK and should then read a little more in depth on Canada's laws if your actually interested.

 

[bradly1101]

We are discussing Islam not other religions...this author was discussing her religion of Islam!

We all know that there have been many deaths in the name of many religions.......so? That is an old argument....discuss Islam.

It would seem to me that what the author is saying has been well thought out and that deep down the author has Islam in her heart! Something she cares for fervently!
\actually no we don`t need to grab a mirror...that's total BS!! We need to address the issues at hand and not re-address issues that have already been addressed!

For all the good people say about Islam....there are some major hurdles and perhaps one of those hurdles is they need to enter the 21st Century. I don`t know.

Let me leave you with this all my Muslim friends of which I have maybe 6-10....have said they are happy that they are in America where they can worship as Muslims freely and without needing to watch their back!!

The behavior of terrorism is a reaction to something. In this case it's the behavior of Christians and Jews. It's often a response to the values and actions of another faith (like the reaction to Israeli settlements).

We react to their values and actions and they react to ours. Reactivity is human nature. So I think multiple religions are important to this conversation.

 

[Blanky]

Things are going just fine here in Canada. It's seems we got a nice little balance going on.

Because they are ignored anyway:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/14/why-does-canada-still-have-a-law-against-blasphemy

True, there have been no prosecutions in about 75 years and it’s likely any prosecution would be met with a successful Charter challenge.

Still, they are nonetheless an embarrassment, and this is why some would like to abolish them http://www.lawtimesnews.com/2014112...e-for-canada-to-get-rid-of-its-blasphemy-laws

because of reasons like this:

According to the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, the “application of these laws has resulted in the jailing of individuals for merely expressing a different religious belief or under false accusations.”

These antiquated laws may get renewed attention in Canada: http://globalnews.ca/news/1763171/c...rompts-push-to-strike-canadian-blasphemy-law/

Charlie Hebdo attack prompts push to strike Canadian blasphemy law

 

[Robsasman]

Do you think you could get all the Jewish and Christian folk in Canada to do away with our blasphemy laws?

Ah come on man, those laws were enacted in the 1930's, and we all know why. No one has ever been charged under it either.

Long time no see, when you coming up for a visit.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Because they are ignored anyway:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/14/why-does-canada-still-have-a-law-against-blasphemy



Still, they are nonetheless an embarrassment, and this is why some would like to abolish them http://www.lawtimesnews.com/2014112...e-for-canada-to-get-rid-of-its-blasphemy-laws

because of reasons like this:


These antiquated laws may get renewed attention in Canada: http://globalnews.ca/news/1763171/c...rompts-push-to-strike-canadian-blasphemy-law/

Your reason to get rid of the laws can't happen in Canada just like they can't happen in the States that still have them on the books
Freedom of Religion is in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Your looking at one tiny aspect of the whole picture.

If your interested read up on our Criminal Code, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, blasphemous libel and Hate speech laws in Canada and see how it all works together

 

[Orignal Earl]

Ah come on man, those laws were enacted in the 1930's, and we all know why. No one has ever been charged under it either.

Long time no see, when you coming up for a visit.

Yo Bob 😀
Probably within a couple of weeks, will stop by for a visit
Take care bro

 

[Blanky]

Your reason to get rid of the laws can't happen in Canada just like they can't happen in the States that still have them on the books
Freedom of Religion is in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Your looking at one tiny aspect of the whole picture.

If your interested read up on our Criminal Code, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, blasphemous libel and Hate speech laws in Canada and see how it all works together

Evidently there are canadians who have already read up on this and disagree with your view that the blasphemy law cannot be repealed. Any laws can change in any country.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Evidently there are canadians who have already read up on this and disagree with your view that the blasphemy law cannot be repealed.

Can you quote me on my view that laws cannot be repealed?

 

[Fern]

That's not a Christian notion, it's a secular one. Some Christians would welcome a Christian government.

Not so fast! The New testament itself suggests separation of Church and state. E.g.:

Separation of church and state

Main article: Separation of church and state

Jesus responds to Pontius Pilate about the nature of his kingdom: "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But now (or 'as it is') my kingdom is not from the world" (John 18:36); i.e., his religious teachings were separate from earthly political activity. This reflects a traditional division in Christian thought by which state and church have separate spheres of influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar

Fern

 

[Fern]

I found this to be telling and truthful......
-snip-
As Coren writes, “There is . . . simply no concept of the separation between mosque and state within orthodox Islam,..

If true that there's no concept, or room for the opinion, of separation of church and state I don't see how one can be optimistic for the peaceful co-existence of Arab Muslims and non-Muslims.

But I wonder how true this is for all Muslims. I'm not terribly familiar with Indonesia, but I wasn't aware that they opposed the separation of church and state.

Fern

 

[SolMiester]

The truth is, if all Muslims were extremists or dangerous, you would all be dead or converted by now.

1.6 billion people, who some of you are convinced are out to kill you all, would have killed you already.

Also, most death and destruction seems to be coming from within the Muslim world, against other Muslims.

Muslims cant control order enough to carry out such an act. Their whole civilisation exists in chaos! Why do you think they have invented next to nothing?