Honda's engines vs Nissan vs Toyota?
- Thread starter wellerdball
- Start date
performance by efficentcy im not impressed by 245hp from a nissan altima 3.5 liter dohc v6 or the maximas 255 hp at 5800 rpm on the same 3.5 block when hondas 3.0 liter dohc v6 can do 240 and the 3.2 can do 260.YES i have noticed the torque difference but we are talking about a half a liter difference and added weight.
Overall I'd agree with RossMAN, however the new Accord's V6 is pretty darn close if not better than the V6 in the Altima (the Maxima still makes more HP though)
NutBucket
Lifer
- Aug 30, 2000
- 27,118
- 613
- 126
The Honda motors kick the crap out of Toyotas as far as power delivery. Having a 91 Accord myself and having driven my parents' '01 Camry, both cars 4 bangers with 5-speeds, I can say that Camry is lethargic to say the least. There is no noticeable power across the rpm range. The Accord, as I'm sure you know, builds power very linearly until it peaks. Honda motors feel a lot stronger then they are. Heck, you can peel out in a Honda Odessey and smoke many ricers in the process. That is one bad@ss minivan.
What do you mean by best performing? In what category?? Honda has the best engine in terms of giving you teh aural excitement such as the 9000RPM 2l 4-cyl or the Type-R engine.
Nissan seems to have the most balanced engine with a flat torque which gives lots of low-end power and great mid-range power and decent high-end power in their new 4-cyl and 6-cyl/8-cyl engines. Their older 4-cyl was a great bulletproof motor (SR20DE-(T)) that had a great torque curve and loved to rev high. In turbocharged form it was exceptionally powerful.
Then you have their inline 6s which are pretty damn stout and powerful. Nissan is more of a performance company. Their earlier cars were aimed at performance (Datsun 510, Z-all generations, Skyline, 180/200/240SX, older Maximas (RWD), Glorias, hell their JDM Altimas have a turbo4-AWD option as well.)
Their older cars are still being raced today, such as the Datsun 510 and older Zs, while their performance economy cars are also raced in their own class (older Sentra SE-R, 200SX SE-R, occasional 240SX,etc..)
Toyota's cars are more aimed at comfort rather than performance or 'enjoyment' factor although they do have some great engines, such as the inline 6 in the Supra.
Did you LOOK at the torque curve? The Nissan engine has way more area under the curve than the Honda counter parts.
You guys/gals should realize that engine performance is dependent on the torque rather than peak power. Look at dynocharts of these engines and you'll see which make more power.
Toyotas dependability is from engines that are big and not even creating 80 percent of their peak efficentcy god dam just look at toyotas pickup truck specs for thoose big v6s and big inline 4s
Thing about Hondas is that they have exceptional gearing and transmission! There's a reason a Civic feels fast, its not cause of its power (which plays a part), but it has great gearing which makes it feel fast (which to me is more important than actually going fast). Nissan approaches this problem by giving you a great torque rush all the way till redline(relative..compared to domestic V8s its nothing) while having decent gearing (dependent on cars...2nd gear on the 240SX is killer while 3rd on the Maxima is exceptional).
so true I've always been fond of newer accords auto transmissions the gear shifting feels like it shifts fast and at perfect efficentcy.
I was actually talking about their manual trannys. However, I do know there was a problem with their 5-spd auto in the CL-S/TL-S where they kept on dieing. I believe the AcuraTL board had a whole forum related to this issue. I'm sure its been resolved by now.
well nissans new maximas arent as bad as the old 190 hp ones I have a uncle that i live with that has had 3 maximas ive ridden in all of them the seats suck.when your turn you cant even stay seated in your seat properly the throttle ramping has always felt weak and too fast as well.
It comes down to what you like.
I like Honda for its blend of efficiency, performance (yes, they are geared properly), and reliability/durability. Accord and Prelude 4 cylinders are top notch for durability, while Civics can hardly be beat for efficiency.
Nissans are nice to drive, but they waste gas IMO.
Toyota. . . What can I say? They're stodgy but stalwart? Yeah. . . That'll do.
I like Honda for its blend of efficiency, performance (yes, they are geared properly), and reliability/durability. Accord and Prelude 4 cylinders are top notch for durability, while Civics can hardly be beat for efficiency.
Nissans are nice to drive, but they waste gas IMO.
Toyota. . . What can I say? They're stodgy but stalwart? Yeah. . . That'll do.
BigSmooth
Lifer
- Aug 18, 2000
- 10,484
- 12
- 81
Of the three, Nissan has the best engines, followed closely by Honda, then Toyota. Although Nissan's engines are generally larger, they typically have a lot more torque while still being smooth and relatively fuel-efficient.
Plus, Nissan's engines have historically been just as reliable as the other two. All three companies had engine reliability problems in the early-to-mid 90's but have been bulletproof since then.
Don't believe me?
Civic
Accord
Corolla
Camry
Sentra
Maxima
Plus, Nissan's engines have historically been just as reliable as the other two. All three companies had engine reliability problems in the early-to-mid 90's but have been bulletproof since then.
Don't believe me?
Civic
Accord
Corolla
Camry
Sentra
Maxima
Funny you say that ( I agree with you one the seats tho..I prefer the seats in my 240SX), but hte 190hp engine in the Maxima was killer. It still propels the Maxima to 1/4mi in under 14s NA! That's right..wihtout nitrous or s/c or turbo, wit a few intake-exhaust mods and a chip it ran a 13.9 at 100mph.
And it responds well to Nitrous or Turbocharging (which is why some people prefer it to the 3.5L V6 which is not as tunable yet).
But then that brings up the discussion of most tunable engine which honda would probably win for the sheer amount of parts for their Integra/Civic linup..but thats not the point.
anyway im rambing..anyone wanna teach me subspaces/n-space/orthonormal vectors and such? please?
I believe you
But I had evap canister control valve problem on my 96 Maxima, and I wouldn't put that under "significant problems". I just disconnected a hose, sprayed some WD40 on the valve, and put the hose back on. That was it.
BigSmooth
Lifer
- Aug 18, 2000
- 10,484
- 12
- 81
They didn't either, they listed that as "moderate".Originally posted by: SuperTool
But I had evap canister control valve problem on my 96 Maxima, and I wouldn't put that under "significant problems". I just disconnected a hose, sprayed some WD40 on the valve, and put the hose back on. That was it.
I think the ratings are based on both the frequency and the cost to repair the problem.Stock or....? And was the Firebird a V8 or just a V6? If the Firebird is a LS1 then the guy just stopped trying after 50mph and you did a ricer fly-by - a LS1's sweet spot is 3rd gear - it pulls like a mofo. Ask anyone who's run a LS1
I'm sure it was a V6 auto...those are a dog. And I'm sure a LS1 in *ANY* gear will smoke a stock 240SX. Damn V8 with its damn stump-pulling torque!
OS
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 15,581
- 1
- 76
I'll race you in my corolla!
As for the original question, I don't think there's a clear answer, you can make a case for either three. Some of the fastest imports are mk4 supras, which are toyotas. Honda wrings out 120 hp/liter. Stock stick v6 Altimas run low to mid 14s.
I will say imo nissans have the least reliable powertrains, particularly the auto trannys.
Originally posted by: OS
I'll race you in my corolla!
As for the original question, I don't think there's a clear answer, you can make a case for either three. Some of the fastest imports are mk4 supras, which are toyotas. Honda wrings out 120 hp/liter. Stock stick v6 Altimas run low to mid 14s.
I will say imo nissans have the least reliable powertrains, particularly the auto trannys.
I would partially agree wiht you but so many people are having different problems. For instance, Honda screwed up with their 5-spd auto in the TLs/CLs and a few 4-spd autos in their older Accords.
Nissan had a bad apple in their earlier 5th gen auto trannies, but issued a TSB to fix it. Their 3rd gen auto trannies did have problems tho (but not on all cars). When compared to the Chrysler/Dodge auto from their older minivans, its not really big issue.
As far as engines, it's hard to do apples to apples comparison here. Nissan stopped bringing in 3.0L V6 in 2001
At their time, their V6 was clearly superior to that of Camry and Accord at that time. The low end just owned accord. I know, because my friend had a 2001 Accord V6 and I have 96 Maxima. My car rapes his. (Both auto)
Now of couse Nissan makes 3.5L and Honda makes a tuned 3.0L. People say these are equally good motors, but they are comparing a detuned 3.5L to a very well tuned 3.0L. Still Altima's engine is better because of the torque IMO. Honda is better for mileage, of course. But if they compared a well tuned Honda V6 in 2003 Accord to a well tuned Nissan V6 in 350Z, it wouldn't even be close.
If normalized for larger displacement of the 3.5L VQ in the Z, a well tuned 3.0L VQ V6 would produce approximately 287HP*3.0/3.5 = 246 HP, which would give it an edge over the Accord. 246 HP is not a big stretch, since the 3.0L V6 already produced 227 HP in the 2001 Maxima anniversary edition.
It's a close call between the Honda V6 and Nissan V6, but I think Nissan has a slight edge on the low end. Honda just seems kinda weak until all the fancy VTECs kick in, after which it's a wash between it and the VQ.
At their time, their V6 was clearly superior to that of Camry and Accord at that time. The low end just owned accord. I know, because my friend had a 2001 Accord V6 and I have 96 Maxima. My car rapes his. (Both auto)
Now of couse Nissan makes 3.5L and Honda makes a tuned 3.0L. People say these are equally good motors, but they are comparing a detuned 3.5L to a very well tuned 3.0L. Still Altima's engine is better because of the torque IMO. Honda is better for mileage, of course. But if they compared a well tuned Honda V6 in 2003 Accord to a well tuned Nissan V6 in 350Z, it wouldn't even be close.
If normalized for larger displacement of the 3.5L VQ in the Z, a well tuned 3.0L VQ V6 would produce approximately 287HP*3.0/3.5 = 246 HP, which would give it an edge over the Accord. 246 HP is not a big stretch, since the 3.0L V6 already produced 227 HP in the 2001 Maxima anniversary edition.
It's a close call between the Honda V6 and Nissan V6, but I think Nissan has a slight edge on the low end. Honda just seems kinda weak until all the fancy VTECs kick in, after which it's a wash between it and the VQ.
But the VQ is soo bloody smooth...the Honda V6 makes a funny noise as it revs up! Nothing sounds better than listening to a VQ with a CAI rev up to redline.
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