Honda wants $400 to service my Civic

[bruceb]

He is not really complaining. Only saying how little they are doing for $400 .. You can do the tranny yourself, but it can be messy. All the other things should be done and I would add Spark Plugs, check plug wires, Gas Filter, check the belts. And see if your car uses a Timing Belt. If so, check the manual and see when they suggest to replace it. If it fails, you will be stuck on the side of the road, and on some motors, you can damage the valves when it fails. So it pays to change it when suggested, before it breaks.

 

[KIAman]

What year civic do you have? My wife has a 2005 EX with automatic and here are the costs and difficulty associated with the work (1 being easiest, 10 hardest)

1. Oil change - $4 filter + $6 (5 qt 5w20) = $10 - Difficulty - 3
The car is low so either drive up ramps on front tires or jack up front and use jackstands.
The oil filter and bolt are both easy to see and accessible.

2. Transmission fluid change - $15 (3 qt of Honda ATF) - Difficulty - 1
Turn your wheel all the way to the left and look near the passenger tire, unscrew and drain. Refill under the hood at the transmission dipstick.
Don't even need to raise car.

3. Cabin filter - $12 - Difficulty - 2
Open glove box, remove glove box, replace filter, put back glove box

4. Air filter - $8 - Difficulty - 2
Open hood, unscrew top of air filter housing, replace filter, screw top of air filter housing

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

6. Check things over - 0$ - Difficulty - 1
Squeeze rubber hoses, if soft, replace. Pull belts, if loose or visibly cracked or old looking, replace, look at rubber mounts, if old or cracked looking, replace (at a shop).

Total (minus brake check) = $45.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
LOL, do it yourself.

That can still be costly.

I've been doing some overdue maintenance on my 95 Toyota with 160k. It's been sitting a while and leaking like a stuck pig.

-timing belt component kit (belt, idlers, tension spring)
-water pump with 2 gaskets and 2 o-rings
-oil pump formed o ring
-front crank, oil pump, and cam seals
-timing cover formed gasket
-valve cover gasket, spark tube seals, PCV valve, and PCV grommet
-distributor O ring

Still cost me a couple $100 for all that stuff and that was discounted at shop cost.

Throw in misc things like a tube of blue RTV, a can of engine degreaser or PB blaster, and any specialty tools you might need that nobody has that you can borrow like a pulley puller, spanner wrench, or 30mm socket, and DIY maintenance isn't always cheaper.

It can be for simple stuff, but it's not a general rule of thumb.

For example when I have my rear end rebuilt on the Cobra to take up the slack and backlash, I'm going to have specialty shop do it. Why spend $100+ in specialty 1 time use tools when I can have a shop do it for me for $50 in an hour?

The stuff he listed is hardly anywhere close to what you're talking about with your toyota. Seriously, an oil change, tranny fluid change, and some filters? Maybe a set of brake pads? C'mon...

On another note, I thought only honda used the retarded timing belt. Didn't realize toyota did too :thumbsdown:

 

[helpme]

Originally posted by: KIAman
What year civic do you have? My wife has a 2005 EX with automatic and here are the costs and difficulty associated with the work (1 being easiest, 10 hardest)

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

Well, if you know what you are doing, then why take it to a pro? If you have any doubts as to what you are doing, leave your brakes to somebody who does...

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: KIAman

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

I see this a lot and it just speaks of ignorance and fear (the same reason we have gun bans and such).

Sure it's not something you want to mess with if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right tools. But if you are mechanically adept (eg: know how to use a socket wrench), brakes are one of the simplest systems on a car. There isn't anything mysterious or exotic about it.

You're just as likely to cause "life and death" scenarios by having improperly inflated tires or improperly torqued lug nuts. Better leave that tire alone and get an experienced professional to change it for you.

Even if you mess something up severely, you'll more than likely just have a squishy pedal, premature pad wear, or warped discs, or funny noises or something. It's not a simple binary "oh noez brakes completely gone" sort of thing unless you simply didn't put the caliper back on.

Sorry KIAman, not picking on you, it's just that I've seen these "brakes = voodoo, no touchy" comments many many times and couldn't refrain finally

 

[KIAman]

Originally posted by: helpme

Originally posted by: KIAman
What year civic do you have? My wife has a 2005 EX with automatic and here are the costs and difficulty associated with the work (1 being easiest, 10 hardest)

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

Well, if you know what you are doing, then why take it to a pro? If you have any doubts as to what you are doing, leave your brakes to somebody who does...

Because IF your brakes do fail, you have someone to sue.

 

[KIAman]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

I see this a lot and it just speaks of ignorance and fear (the same reason we have gun bans and such).

Sure it's not something you want to mess with if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right tools. But if you are mechanically adept (eg: know how to use a socket wrench), brakes are one of the simplest systems on a car. There isn't anything mysterious or exotic about it.

You're just as likely to cause "life and death" scenarios by having improperly inflated tires or improperly torqued lug nuts. Better leave that tire alone and get an experienced professional to change it for you.

Sorry KIAman, not picking on you, it's just that I've seen these "brakes = voodoo, no touchy" comments many many times and couldn't refrain finally

First, most people don't have a machine that turns their rotors at home so they would have to fork money for the rotors. Doing a brake job isn't hard, I'd rate it at a 4, but the cost difference to have a shop do it is negligible considering the liability if something were to happen with the brakes.

Ignorance and fear of dying? Pshhh, please. Fear of litigation!

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: helpme

Originally posted by: KIAman
What year civic do you have? My wife has a 2005 EX with automatic and here are the costs and difficulty associated with the work (1 being easiest, 10 hardest)

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

Well, if you know what you are doing, then why take it to a pro? If you have any doubts as to what you are doing, leave your brakes to somebody who does...

Because IF your brakes do fail, you have someone to sue.

More like blame your brakes when you were following too closely and talking on the cell phone...

 

[KIAman]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: helpme

Originally posted by: KIAman
What year civic do you have? My wife has a 2005 EX with automatic and here are the costs and difficulty associated with the work (1 being easiest, 10 hardest)

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

Well, if you know what you are doing, then why take it to a pro? If you have any doubts as to what you are doing, leave your brakes to somebody who does...

Because IF your brakes do fail, you have someone to sue.

More like blame your brakes when you were following too closely and talking on the cell phone...

I had the impression you were not distinctly referencing me when making your points, but I might be wrong.

Curious, at what point was it necessary to include me into your random, thoughtless scenario?

If you got a beef with bad drivers, start a post in the off topic section.

Have you ever seen a forensic report for auto accidents? It is pretty easy to determine a failing brake system compared to driver ignorance.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

I see this a lot and it just speaks of ignorance and fear (the same reason we have gun bans and such).

Sure it's not something you want to mess with if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right tools. But if you are mechanically adept (eg: know how to use a socket wrench), brakes are one of the simplest systems on a car. There isn't anything mysterious or exotic about it.

You're just as likely to cause "life and death" scenarios by having improperly inflated tires or improperly torqued lug nuts. Better leave that tire alone and get an experienced professional to change it for you.

Sorry KIAman, not picking on you, it's just that I've seen these "brakes = voodoo, no touchy" comments many many times and couldn't refrain finally

First, most people don't have a machine that turns their rotors at home so they would have to fork money for the rotors. Doing a brake job isn't hard, I'd rate it at a 4, but the cost difference to have a shop do it is negligible considering the liability if something were to happen with the brakes.

Ignorance and fear of dying? Pshhh, please. Fear of litigation!

You don't have to turn your rotors every time. They only need turned if you have a warped rotor, and even then once they are warped you're better off replacing them instead of turning them as they have been damaged.

The price difference is quite big. A set of pads costs almost nothing. Paying somebody to put them on costs more than the pads do. At 60k miles I doubt his rotors need replaced. If they do, two more bolts and you can swap the rotor yourself. Then brake them in according to the directions for the rotors.

 

[KIAman]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

I see this a lot and it just speaks of ignorance and fear (the same reason we have gun bans and such).

Sure it's not something you want to mess with if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right tools. But if you are mechanically adept (eg: know how to use a socket wrench), brakes are one of the simplest systems on a car. There isn't anything mysterious or exotic about it.

You're just as likely to cause "life and death" scenarios by having improperly inflated tires or improperly torqued lug nuts. Better leave that tire alone and get an experienced professional to change it for you.

Sorry KIAman, not picking on you, it's just that I've seen these "brakes = voodoo, no touchy" comments many many times and couldn't refrain finally

First, most people don't have a machine that turns their rotors at home so they would have to fork money for the rotors. Doing a brake job isn't hard, I'd rate it at a 4, but the cost difference to have a shop do it is negligible considering the liability if something were to happen with the brakes.

Ignorance and fear of dying? Pshhh, please. Fear of litigation!

You don't have to turn your rotors every time. They only need turned if you have a warped rotor, and even then once they are warped you're better off replacing them instead of turning them as they have been damaged.

The price difference is quite big. A set of pads costs almost nothing. Paying somebody to put them on costs more than the pads do. At 60k miles I doubt his rotors need replaced. If they do, two more bolts and you can swap the rotor yourself. Then brake them in according to the directions for the rotors.

I own Civic and my entire family has Hondas of all varieties. I work on all of their cars. Hondas are notoriously known for rotor warpage, even with low miles. If you don't replace the rotors, you run into the 2nd notorious problem of Hondas; wheel shimmy when braking.

Also, just 2 screws to remove rotors? That's the hardest part. Those screws are so tight (and maleable) that it takes no effort to round off the end.

Also, adding new pads (thicker) now require a method to squeeze the rotors in or risk opening the bleeder valve.

A brake job is an hour job. At a typical rate of $85 an hour, my argument is that it is better to offload the risk of liability for $85.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

I see this a lot and it just speaks of ignorance and fear (the same reason we have gun bans and such).

Sure it's not something you want to mess with if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right tools. But if you are mechanically adept (eg: know how to use a socket wrench), brakes are one of the simplest systems on a car. There isn't anything mysterious or exotic about it.

You're just as likely to cause "life and death" scenarios by having improperly inflated tires or improperly torqued lug nuts. Better leave that tire alone and get an experienced professional to change it for you.

Sorry KIAman, not picking on you, it's just that I've seen these "brakes = voodoo, no touchy" comments many many times and couldn't refrain finally

First, most people don't have a machine that turns their rotors at home so they would have to fork money for the rotors. Doing a brake job isn't hard, I'd rate it at a 4, but the cost difference to have a shop do it is negligible considering the liability if something were to happen with the brakes.

Ignorance and fear of dying? Pshhh, please. Fear of litigation!

You don't have to turn your rotors every time. They only need turned if you have a warped rotor, and even then once they are warped you're better off replacing them instead of turning them as they have been damaged.

The price difference is quite big. A set of pads costs almost nothing. Paying somebody to put them on costs more than the pads do. At 60k miles I doubt his rotors need replaced. If they do, two more bolts and you can swap the rotor yourself. Then brake them in according to the directions for the rotors.

I own Civic and my entire family has Hondas of all varieties. I work on all of their cars. Hondas are notoriously known for rotor warpage, even with low miles. If you don't replace the rotors, you run into the 2nd notorious problem of Hondas; wheel shimmy when braking.

Also, just 2 screws to remove rotors? That's the hardest part. Those screws are so tight (and maleable) that it takes no effort to round off the end.

Also, adding new pads (thicker) now require a method to squeeze the rotors in or risk opening the bleeder valve.

A brake job is an hour job. At a typical rate of $85 an hour, my argument is that it is better to offload the risk of liability for $85.

If you use a 6 point socket you would be hard pressed to round off those bolts. Don't use a 12 point socket. And pressing in the piston(s) on the calipers (not rotors ) isn't a big deal. Open the bleeder, press in piston(s), close bleeder. Easy.

Thanks for that info on honda's junk brakes though, yet another reason for me to never buy one.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: helpme

Originally posted by: KIAman
What year civic do you have? My wife has a 2005 EX with automatic and here are the costs and difficulty associated with the work (1 being easiest, 10 hardest)

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

Well, if you know what you are doing, then why take it to a pro? If you have any doubts as to what you are doing, leave your brakes to somebody who does...

Because IF your brakes do fail, you have someone to sue.

More like blame your brakes when you were following too closely and talking on the cell phone...

I had the impression you were not distinctly referencing me when making your points, but I might be wrong.

Curious, at what point was it necessary to include me into your random, thoughtless scenario?

If you got a beef with bad drivers, start a post in the off topic section.

Have you ever seen a forensic report for auto accidents? It is pretty easy to determine a failing brake system compared to driver ignorance.

It's just my third person style of writing, you'll get used to it if you read many of my posts long enough. I rarely if ever make direct personal attacks on individuals and instead write to an anonymous group of people who think in the manner the quoted post has established.

The meaning of "your" is quite anonymous and depends on context, eg: the person reading or anyone who exhibits the behavior described as quoted.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: KIAman

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: KIAman

5. Brakes - This is no man's land IMO. These are the difference between life and death. Even IF you know what you are doing, go to a pro.

I see this a lot and it just speaks of ignorance and fear (the same reason we have gun bans and such).

Sure it's not something you want to mess with if you don't know what you are doing or don't have the right tools. But if you are mechanically adept (eg: know how to use a socket wrench), brakes are one of the simplest systems on a car. There isn't anything mysterious or exotic about it.

You're just as likely to cause "life and death" scenarios by having improperly inflated tires or improperly torqued lug nuts. Better leave that tire alone and get an experienced professional to change it for you.

Sorry KIAman, not picking on you, it's just that I've seen these "brakes = voodoo, no touchy" comments many many times and couldn't refrain finally

First, most people don't have a machine that turns their rotors at home so they would have to fork money for the rotors. Doing a brake job isn't hard, I'd rate it at a 4, but the cost difference to have a shop do it is negligible considering the liability if something were to happen with the brakes.

Ignorance and fear of dying? Pshhh, please. Fear of litigation!

You don't have to turn your rotors every time. They only need turned if you have a warped rotor, and even then once they are warped you're better off replacing them instead of turning them as they have been damaged.

The price difference is quite big. A set of pads costs almost nothing. Paying somebody to put them on costs more than the pads do. At 60k miles I doubt his rotors need replaced. If they do, two more bolts and you can swap the rotor yourself. Then brake them in according to the directions for the rotors.

I own Civic and my entire family has Hondas of all varieties. I work on all of their cars. Hondas are notoriously known for rotor warpage, even with low miles. If you don't replace the rotors, you run into the 2nd notorious problem of Hondas; wheel shimmy when braking.

Also, just 2 screws to remove rotors? That's the hardest part. Those screws are so tight (and maleable) that it takes no effort to round off the end.

Also, adding new pads (thicker) now require a method to squeeze the rotors in or risk opening the bleeder valve.

A brake job is an hour job. At a typical rate of $85 an hour, my argument is that it is better to offload the risk of liability for $85.

Those two bolts that hold the caliper aren't that hard if you use the proper tools (eg: a 3/8" or 1/2" ratchet or breaker bar and an exact sized socket, not a 6" long wrench or a standard socket that doesn't quite fit because you don't have a metric socket).

I had to remove the caliper on my Toyota to replace a wheel stud I broke (it wasn't going to come off any other way), and the specified torque on those two bolts is only 79 ft-lbs (contrast with an axle hub nut which is something like 250 ft-lbs).

It's not really a big deal. I was even able to rock the caliper back on without bleeding fluid or disturbing the pads/pistons.

The biggest issue I have with people who believe people should not work on their own cars is that it causes the same mentality that gun bans and DRM does, such that it leads to scenarios where people could be forbidden by laws to work on their own cars and allow dealer/service center monopolies, to the point where you aren't even allowed to flash the computer or customize your vehicle in any way. "Safety" seems to be a trigger that suddenly makes any transgression of liberty acceptable. Being an auto enthusiast and tinkering with your own car is not only something many people do in this country, it's also somewhat of an American heritage from the "roaring 20's" to the muscle car era.

Imagine if flash programming your car for better performance or mileage violated something like the DMCA, or if a cold air intake or aftermarket filter or exhaust system caused you to fail emissions regardless whether the vehicle actually passes or not. Having something "certified" or "approved" generally means giving up power to some governing body, which I detest.

 

[SickBeast]

Ok, so by chance today I walked past an auto parts store and bought the following:

- cabin air filter ($25)
- engine air filter ($25)
- a drain pan ($15)

Is there another filter that I need to change when I change the oil? Someone mentionned that they cost $4; I only ask because mine was $25.

Thanks for all the advice. I particularly appreciate KIAman's post. :beer:

 

[SickBeast]

Oh, and regarding all the comments about the brakes:

Honda wanted me to replace my rear rotors and I refused. The pads were down to 10% so I had them replaced; they charged me $200 and wanted over $300 for the rotors. :Q

Are you guys saying that I should indeed do the rotors? I'll get a quote from my local mechanic; I know someone. I have been going to the dealer to retain my warranty up until now.

Also, my front brakes are down to 40%. Should I just wait until those wear down and then do it all at once?

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

On another note, I thought only honda used the retarded timing belt. Didn't realize toyota did too :thumbsdown:

All honda 4 cyl's nowadays use a timing chain.

 

[SickBeast]

Oh, and regarding all the comments about the brakes:

Honda wanted me to replace my rear rotors and I refused. The pads were down to 10% so I had them replaced; they charged me $200 and wanted over $300 for the rotors. :Q

Are you guys saying that I should indeed do the rotors? I'll get a quote from my local mechanic; I know someone. I have been going to the dealer to retain my warranty up until now.

Also, my front brakes are down to 40%. Should I just wait until those wear down and then do it all at once?

 

[sdifox]

You still have warranty after 100K km? Also, there is no reason to do maintainance at the stealership, even if it is still under warranty.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: lurk3r
Drop $20 on the haynes manual. With the horrible transmissions in honda's I'd be very hesitant to change the trany fluid yourself. If you've never done brakes before ... well they are what stop your car, do you trust your life and those around you to your work? If so, its not exceedingly hard, if you follow the directions in the manual.

Their manuals are generally extremely good, actually. Don't confuse automatic transmission issues specific to one drivetrain configuration with "all honda transmissions are horrible."

The OP has a manual, apparently. And it just so happens that changing the fluid in honda manual transmissions is a very easy process, and both Honda Manual Transmission Fluid and crush washers are easy to come by from a variety of sources. No reason anyone with a torque wrench and some jack stands can't do it. But make sure you have the proper sized crush washers to replace on the drain and fill bolts before you start. It helps to have a pump to get the fluid up into the fill hole. Manual transmission fluid is just heavy oil, so you can recycle it in with your regular oil. To put it simply: This job is so easy that Honda usually includes instructions in the regular owner's manual that comes with the car. You don't even need a service manual to get instructions. It is intended to be an owner-serviceable process.

As for filters, those are generally 5 minutes jobs or less. Some cars require a bit more fiddling to get to the cabin filter than others.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

On another note, I thought only honda used the retarded timing belt. Didn't realize toyota did too :thumbsdown:

All honda 4 cyl's nowadays use a timing chain.

Yeah, apparently the timing chain doesn't need to be serviced until 170,000km or so.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
i never go to the dealer for those types of maintenance, they charge you that much cuz they dont want you to go. you're wasting their time from servicing other cars lol.

do oil and cabin change yourself, cabin change in my accord took less than 5 mins iirc

This makes me laugh and laugh.....yeah the dealership is too busy fixing cars with big problems so they charge you too much money for the easy stuff. But wait.....I thought Honda's are all reliable and run forever with nothing but routine maintenance. What cars with these big problems are they fixing at the Honda dealership, Pontiacs?

 

[SickBeast]

IMO this whole LOUISSSS witch hunt is overblown.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
i never go to the dealer for those types of maintenance, they charge you that much cuz they dont want you to go. you're wasting their time from servicing other cars lol.

do oil and cabin change yourself, cabin change in my accord took less than 5 mins iirc

This makes me laugh and laugh.....yeah the dealership is too busy fixing cars with big problems so they charge you too much money for the easy stuff. But wait.....I thought Honda's are all reliable and run forever with nothing but routine maintenance. What cars with these big problems are they fixing at the Honda dealership, Pontiacs?

:laugh:

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Oh, and regarding all the comments about the brakes:

Honda wanted me to replace my rear rotors and I refused. The pads were down to 10% so I had them replaced; they charged me $200 and wanted over $300 for the rotors. :Q

Are you guys saying that I should indeed do the rotors? I'll get a quote from my local mechanic; I know someone. I have been going to the dealer to retain my warranty up until now.

Also, my front brakes are down to 40%. Should I just wait until those wear down and then do it all at once?

i'd take that to a local mechanic. no need to do that at the stealership!!!!