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Honda makes ice to keep plant cool

OS

OS

Lifer
"Keeping Honda Motor Co.'s facility in this western Ohio village cool during a heat wave without breaking the bank is as simple as freezing water.

The Japanese automaker makes ice at night and then melts it during the day to cool the 1 million-square-foot complex of buildings, where vehicles are designed.

Honda says the ice-chiller system saves on electricity costs by reducing power use during peak hours, while requiring less water than its old system."

article
 
... Except that Honda neither designed or built the system. They just use it. Along with thousands of other businesses who have the space required for such a system and the available short-term capital to make the RIDICULOUS initial investment for the eventual small payoff (which is probably less savings than selling one extra car per week)
 
"Allen Bickel, senior facilities engineer, said that while it costs more than conventional systems, he expects it to pay for itself in three years and last as many as 30 years."
 
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
... Except that Honda neither designed or built the system. They just use it. Along with thousands of other businesses who have the space required for such a system and the available short-term capital to make the RIDICULOUS initial investment for the eventual small payoff (which is probably less savings than selling one extra car per week)
Click to expand...
So in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
The practice isn't new because ice was use to cool buildings since the beginning of refrigeration that why refrigeration units inherited the measurement of cooling effect in tons (weight of ice in tons). And, I was made during the night because it take less energy (BTU) to freeze water in the cool air at night than the warm air in the day time. Brine water is the common ingredient for making ice at ice factories world wide for decades.

Too bad they are keeping a tight lid on the process at making the ice, because it would be nice to learn what they use & how. My guest is that they are using propylene glycol (break down to harmless solution within days if leaks) because they mentioned that it is environmentally friendly, and the glycol:water solution is commonly use as a deicing agent or antifreeze coolant.

Anyhoo, it is nice to hear that companies are trying to more environmentally friendly why saving money at the sametime.

 
Originally posted by: JinLien

The practice isn't new because ice was use to cool buildings since the beginning of refrigeration that why refrigeration units inherited the measurement of cooling effect in tons (weight of ice in tons). And, I was made during the night because it take less energy (BTU) to freeze water in the cool air at night than the warm air in the day time. Brine water is the common ingredient for making ice at ice factories world wide for decades.

Too bad they are keeping a tight lid on the process at making the ice, because it would be nice to learn what they use & how. My guest is that they are using propylene glycol (break down to harmless solution within days if leaks) because they mentioned that it is environmentally friendly, and the glycol:water solution is commonly use as a deicing agent or anti free coolant.

Anyhoo, it is nice to hear that companies are trying to more environmentally friendly why saving money at the sametime.
Click to expand...


:thumbsup::thumbsup: for good info

 
That glycol & water solution is also what they're using in the pipes for the indoor skiing facility in Dubai (or wherever)...they had a Discover show on it. The main engineer was commenting on its safety benefits, but the sheer volume they have to use could still kill people if a pipe broke, as there would be a 10 foot tall wall of solution rushing at them 😛
 
Originally posted by: EvilYoda
That glycol & water solution is also what they're using in the pipes for the indoor skiing facility in Dubai (or wherever)...they had a Discover show on it. The main engineer was commenting on its safety benefits, but the sheer volume they have to use could still kill people if a pipe broke, as there would be a 10 foot tall wall of solution rushing at them 😛
Click to expand...
The glycol solution will kill a person if consume in mass quantity, but same thing could be said for food/sugar. Propylene glycol also us in cosmetic and food preservative.

 
They are sure trying to save every dollar. I hear companies in Hong Kong leave their lights on in their sky scrapers because people like how they look despite 89k electric bill monthly. Hows that for an electric bill?
 
You guys are ridiculous with how it takes "less" energy to freeze it at night in the cooler temperatures.

The reason for the freezing of ice at night has more to do with the cost of power. If they ran the freezer during the day, Honda would be subject to daily peak demand pricing of electricity depending on their contract with their electric supplier. Because they're using the power outside of the peak power, the price per kilowatt is a lot less.

Example:

Honda has a contract that is 6.25 cents per KWh from 6AM-9PM where as they have a rate of 4.7 cents per KWh at from 9PM-6AM.

That's nearly a 33% increase in costs if they were to run the freezer during the day. So the savings isn't in efficiency of the freezer at night, but purely from the difference in price of electricity.
 
Originally posted by: JinLien
Originally posted by: EvilYoda
That glycol & water solution is also what they're using in the pipes for the indoor skiing facility in Dubai (or wherever)...they had a Discover show on it. The main engineer was commenting on its safety benefits, but the sheer volume they have to use could still kill people if a pipe broke, as there would be a 10 foot tall wall of solution rushing at them 😛
Click to expand...
The glycol solution will kill a person if consume in mass quantity, but same thing could be said for food/sugar. Propylene glycol also us in cosmetic and food preservative.
Click to expand...

But this isn't consumption, this is flooding and high-pressure flow.

The cooling thing seems like a great idea, like a swamp cooler on a much bigger scale.
 
Originally posted by: SampSon
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
... Except that Honda neither designed or built the system. They just use it. Along with thousands of other businesses who have the space required for such a system and the available short-term capital to make the RIDICULOUS initial investment for the eventual small payoff (which is probably less savings than selling one extra car per week)
Click to expand...
So in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

lol
 
Originally posted by: J0hnny
You guys are ridiculous with how it takes "less" energy to freeze it at night in the cooler temperatures.

The reason for the freezing of ice at night has more to do with the cost of power. If they ran the freezer during the day, Honda would be subject to daily peak demand pricing of electricity depending on their contract with their electric supplier. Because they're using the power outside of the peak power, the price per kilowatt is a lot less.

Example:

Honda has a contract that is 6.25 cents per KWh from 6AM-9PM where as they have a rate of 4.7 cents per KWh at from 9PM-6AM.

That's nearly a 33% increase in costs if they were to run the freezer during the day. So the savings isn't in efficiency of the freezer at night, but purely from the difference in price of electricity.
Click to expand...

I undertstand your point, but how is it "ridiculous" to think they save money by making the ice at night when it's cooler?

 
Originally posted by: Thraxen
Originally posted by: J0hnny
You guys are ridiculous with how it takes "less" energy to freeze it at night in the cooler temperatures.

The reason for the freezing of ice at night has more to do with the cost of power. If they ran the freezer during the day, Honda would be subject to daily peak demand pricing of electricity depending on their contract with their electric supplier. Because they're using the power outside of the peak power, the price per kilowatt is a lot less.

Example:

Honda has a contract that is 6.25 cents per KWh from 6AM-9PM where as they have a rate of 4.7 cents per KWh at from 9PM-6AM.

That's nearly a 33% increase in costs if they were to run the freezer during the day. So the savings isn't in efficiency of the freezer at night, but purely from the difference in price of electricity.
Click to expand...

I undertstand your point, but how is it "ridiculous" to think they save money by making the ice at night when it's cooler?
Click to expand...
He said it was ridiculous to say it takes less energy, not to say it saves them money.

 
Originally posted by: archcommus
Originally posted by: Thraxen
Originally posted by: J0hnny
You guys are ridiculous with how it takes "less" energy to freeze it at night in the cooler temperatures.

The reason for the freezing of ice at night has more to do with the cost of power. If they ran the freezer during the day, Honda would be subject to daily peak demand pricing of electricity depending on their contract with their electric supplier. Because they're using the power outside of the peak power, the price per kilowatt is a lot less.

Example:

Honda has a contract that is 6.25 cents per KWh from 6AM-9PM where as they have a rate of 4.7 cents per KWh at from 9PM-6AM.

That's nearly a 33% increase in costs if they were to run the freezer during the day. So the savings isn't in efficiency of the freezer at night, but purely from the difference in price of electricity.
Click to expand...

I undertstand your point, but how is it "ridiculous" to think they save money by making the ice at night when it's cooler?
Click to expand...
He said it was ridiculous to say it takes less energy, not to say it saves them money.
Click to expand...

Just turning on the AC in the plant I work at once costs us in the range of $1,000 because of the power spike that occurs during peak hours. If we have to start every press after being shutdown for a holiday or something, we have to stagger them over the course of 3-4 hours because of the huge demand in electricity it sucks up. Electric companies charge more when they see these spikes, especially during the day when the temperature is way up there meaning the entire grid is being taxed.
 
Originally posted by: J0hnny
You guys are ridiculous with how it takes "less" energy to freeze it at night in the cooler temperatures.

The reason for the freezing of ice at night has more to do with the cost of power. If they ran the freezer during the day, Honda would be subject to daily peak demand pricing of electricity depending on their contract with their electric supplier. Because they're using the power outside of the peak power, the price per kilowatt is a lot less.

Example:

Honda has a contract that is 6.25 cents per KWh from 6AM-9PM where as they have a rate of 4.7 cents per KWh at from 9PM-6AM.

That's nearly a 33% increase in costs if they were to run the freezer during the day. So the savings isn't in efficiency of the freezer at night, but purely from the difference in price of electricity.
Click to expand...


They most likely are on TOU, but they are doing it at night most likely to keep their peak demand costs down. Most businesses get billed for usage and also peak demand. If they were to create the ice during the day along with running all their machines for business use, their demand would be much higher than if their operations were shut down and the only power being used was for the ice.
 
Originally posted by: OS
"Allen Bickel, senior facilities engineer, said that while it costs more than conventional systems, he expects it to pay for itself in three years and last as many as 30 years."
Click to expand...

sounds good to me
 
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