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Honda Civic - Repair or to not repair?

TridenT

TridenT

Lifer
My 2000 honda civic ex coupe is having issues to say the least. The AC system is shot. (I think the compressor is broken and/or the regulator valve is stuck) The catalytic converter might be broken and unsalvageable (P0420 code but the metal grid inside isn't melted at all. Maybe the grid is covered in something). The engine is going to need a rebuild eventually along with the timing belt and water pump needing to be changed. (Piston rings are worn but the car runs fine. It might however ruin another catalytic converter down the road with oil burning)

The car has about 185,000 miles on it. It's my only way of getting around. I don't have a lot of money right now.

However, the interior of the car is in good condition for its age because I basically replaced a bunch of shit and put new carpet in after it was stolen. I've invested probably about $2k of repairs in the last year because it was stolen and needed some work done. So, it has new things like a new windshield, stereo head unit, some gaskets, fluids, and so forth.

What do you think I should do about the car? I can do all the repairs myself with free labor (I have the time) but the parts aren't going to be cheap either. The AC is going to be expensive because it requires that I buy a vacuum pump. And while I don't mind buying more tools, I don't really have a good reason to buy a vacuum pump other than for AC work. (And only to drain air out of the system, not for sucking out lots of freon because that's the job of an auto shop with the right equipment) The catalytic converter will probably be about $400 to get a CA legal one. (Important to me since the car could live in CA/NY sometime) So, $500 for AC ($300 for parts, $200 for tools), $400 for catalytic converter($350 for cat, $50 for sensor), $350 for engine rebuild (Rebuild kit plus misc tools). ~$1250.

Not cheap at all but I could sell the car for $2k rather than the $500 I'd only be able to sell it for now. On top of that, I'd have more auto repair experience under my belt and more tools. I think both of those are valuable but I don't know how valuable. Thoughts?

EDIT: Master rebuilt kit is looking to be $330 by itself. Gasket kit is $150, plus more tools, then it's probably closer to $600-750 to rebuild the engine. Damn.
 
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You're not rebuilding an engine (properly) for $350. I had more than that in machinist costs alone (inspect, bore/hone cylinders, bead blast and deck head, check line bore, polish crank).

I suppose you could just take it apart and put it back together without doing any of that, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a rebuild.

I'd probably buy it from you for $500, though. 😛
 
How do you know the rings are bad?

You can get an AC Delco or Goodyear timing belt kit with water pump (I would avoid Gates water pumps) for ~$90. A valve cover gasket is ~$10. An AC kit (compressor, expansion valve, receiver/drier, and o-rings/seals/gaskets) is $190. California cat $261 ($160 for all the normal states), $26 for an upstream o2 sensor, and $20 for a downstream o2 sensor.
 
I'd dump it and start over.
Reading about your inability to take care of simple maintenance and ignoring check engine light, that car is going to cost too much to repair in the long run.
Sell it, then buy a car that you actually maintain. Ie, fixing issues causing the check engine light rather than spending that money on a head unit that works with your iPhone.
 
For an engine build he's also going to want a ring compressor, ring file, plastigage (though that's not so much a tool as it is a consumable product), dial indicator, feeler gauges, engine hoist, engine stand, torque wrenches, crank pully puller, and another car to go get parts that were forgotten initially.
 
Yeah, after realizing the engine rebuild would be mighty expensive just for parts... I'm thinking I'll skip that.

If I do anything, I'll fix the AC and catalytic converter, and then I'll sell the car. (Or drive it until it explodes)
 
I'm curious as to how you know the rings are bad? The ac and cat are much easier fixes from a tool investment standpoint (as well as gaining the knowledge that goes into building an engine). If you can get away with doing those and not have to build the engine I would go down that route. If you know that you'll have to rebuild the engine it may be worth just dumping now. At 500 in value you might be better just parting it out.

Edit: you can get a professionally rebuilt d16y8 engine on eBay for 1400 or less shipped. This might be a better option than a diy project if you don't have the capacity to do it yourself.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271610108376?cmd=VIDESC&gxo=true
 
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I did a compression test with oil. It was 50+ psi difference. From 135 on cylinder 1 to 190. Other cylinders were at 150 and then 200 with oil. 150 is acceptable, but 135 is dipping into low territory. And if the cylinders are different amounts, that is an issue.

Cylinder 1 is an issue.
 
TridenT said:
I did a compression test with oil. It was 50+ psi difference. From 135 on cylinder 1 to 190. Other cylinders were at 150 and then 200 with oil. 150 is acceptable, but 135 is dipping into low territory. And if the cylinders are different amounts, that is an issue.

Cylinder 1 is an issue.
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If you are getting 135 and then 150 across the board, and all cylinders are within 10% (135-150), I wouldn't say that cylinder 1 is much more of an issue than cylinders 2-4 (I also wouldn't say that any of them are "great"). Your engine seems to be pretty evenly worn. I've never owned a honda engine (at least not in an automobile) - but at 185k miles, I don't think you are doing too bad. Piston rings seem almost equally shot (who knows it still might last 10s of 1000s of miles). If it were me, I would start putting some money away for either 1) an engine rebuild or 2) a down payment on something else.

I wouldn't fix it until it dies haha (because it flat out may run fine for quite some time).

Did you do a leak down test or just the 2 compression tests?

Where are you living right now and how strict is the emissions test? You said something about going back to CA? Might just want to throw a spark plug non-fouler on your O2 sensor and deal with the new cat when you get back to cali (so you don't end up wasting that cash if the car just dies before you get there).

Do you need AC where you are? I drove my first car without A/C for quite a while while I was in college. PA summers aren't that hot (I wouldn't want to have it with me down in SC right now w/o A/C).
 
Wuzup101 said:
If you are getting 135 and then 150 across the board, and all cylinders are within 10% (135-150), I wouldn't say that cylinder 1 is much more of an issue than cylinders 2-4 (I also wouldn't say that any of them are "great"). Your engine seems to be pretty evenly worn. I've never owned a honda engine (at least not in an automobile) - but at 185k miles, I don't think you are doing too bad. Piston rings seem almost equally shot (who knows it still might last 10s of 1000s of miles). If it were me, I would start putting some money away for either 1) an engine rebuild or 2) a down payment on something else.

I wouldn't fix it until it dies haha (because it flat out may run fine for quite some time).

Did you do a leak down test or just the 2 compression tests?

Where are you living right now and how strict is the emissions test? You said something about going back to CA? Might just want to throw a spark plug non-fouler on your O2 sensor and deal with the new cat when you get back to cali (so you don't end up wasting that cash if the car just dies before you get there).

Do you need AC where you are? I drove my first car without A/C for quite a while while I was in college. PA summers aren't that hot (I wouldn't want to have it with me down in SC right now w/o A/C).
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Just the compression tests. I don't have a leak down tester and compression test proved to me that the rings were worn.

I'm moving cross country. I don't know where I'll be living. That's why it's important it's CA/NY legal.

I need AC. I'm in Phoenix right now and I drove this summer without AC through 110F+ weather. Barely made it out alive. (16 hour drives with 100F+ weather is incredibly difficult without AC)

I'll probably fix the AC and the catalytic converter when I move. Until then, I'll live with it as is. It's cooling down a bit in Phoenix, and driving here isn't driving in 110F+ anymore. (That's nice)
 
TridenT said:
Yeah, after realizing the engine rebuild would be mighty expensive just for parts... I'm thinking I'll skip that.

If I do anything, I'll fix the AC and catalytic converter, and then I'll sell the car. (Or drive it until it explodes)
Click to expand...

Yup, sell it as-is for a grand and use it for a down payment on another car. Honda 4-bangers are notoriously tough, if it was maintained it should be fine @185K miles, I've seen much less robust engines go a lot further than that, but that's assuming that the oil was changed and the cooling system was maintained as well..
 
TridenT said:
Just the compression tests. I don't have a leak down tester and compression test proved to me that the rings were worn.

I'm moving cross country. I don't know where I'll be living. That's why it's important it's CA/NY legal.

I need AC. I'm in Phoenix right now and I drove this summer without AC through 110F+ weather. Barely made it out alive. (16 hour drives with 100F+ weather is incredibly difficult without AC)

I'll probably fix the AC and the catalytic converter when I move. Until then, I'll live with it as is. It's cooling down a bit in Phoenix, and driving here isn't driving in 110F+ anymore. (That's nice)
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Haha that's not an area of the country I would want to live in without ac... But you got through the bad months!

You could get it to a point where it would likely pass NY state emissions for 10 bucks or so. Note that I didn't say legal just passing. They would be doing an odbII check and I believe only visual if it fails odbII... So a non fouler would likely work. For what its worth people pass NY emissions with test pipes and odbII signals disabled in their tune. Cali would be a different story. This assumes that it is the cat and not the O2 sensor failing as a non fouler won't help you there.

I assume that the compression test was done with the engine at operating temp and the throttle fully opened? The wet to dry results would indicate a worn cylinder / rings like you said, I'm just curious. Are you blowing smoke or consuming oil between changes?
 
RLGL said:
Take the cash for the repairs and use it for a down payment .
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That's a really small down payment. I wouldn't do that. Especially since the next car I'm getting is not going to be another $4,000 civic. It's going to be a $15k+ luxury sedan, sports car, or a prius.
 
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