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Homophobia/Homophobe/etc... How do you feel about these terms?

V

Viper GTS

Lifer
I was recently in a PM discussion with a member of these forums. The discussion originated over his use of the word "homophobic" to refer to discrimination against homosexuals.

He quoted Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-&
Function: noun
Date: 1969
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

By definition, a phobia is a fear. Particularly an irrational one. The term "homophobia" was coined to label anyone who doesn't support the gay agenda as being irrational, driven by fear. That implies that the belief, or the person that holds the belief is the one with the problem. While I don't have a better term, I venture a guess that most heterosexual individuals find the term offensive. Why? Because fear is not where their beliefs come from, & to have your beliefs belittled to a "phobia" (like the paralyzing fear of spiders or snakes) stigmatizes them as weak. Which is exactly what the term is supposed to do.

For comparison (From dictionary.com)

Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
Behavior based on such a feeling.

That seems closer to the true meaning implied by the pairing of "homo" and "phobia."

Now... The question...

Do you feel that the homophob/e/ic/ia terms are a legitimate term to be used for discrimination against homosexuals, or are they merely designed to attack the heterosexual population?

Viper GTS
 
I never thought they were used for discrimination. I always thought homophobia was a term that was used for people who fear the gay lifestyle and because of that condemn it.
 
<<contempt>>


Sorry, but this applies to hating them. If you don't like them, well I guess it's close enough.
 
It depends on your views of sexuality. If, for example, you view homosexuality as a trait or human characteristic, then discriminating or being afraid of homosexuals would be irrational and homophobia would be a good way of describe this. If you think homosexuality is a lifestyle and/or a choice, it's not irrational to be afraid by homosexuality just like it wouldn't be irrational to be afraid of another lifestyle like polygamy(sp?).
 
I think homophobia leads to discrimination against gay people, it isn't really a description of acts against them.
 
<<contempt>>


Sorry, but this applies to hating them. If you don't like them, well I guess it's close enough.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the blanket application of the term(s) to anyone who disagrees with their agenda.

Hatred is entirely another issue.

Tauren

I know they're close, but there's a difference between hatred &amp; discrimination. Hatred could be part of a phobia (ie people hate spiders/snakes).

Viper GTS
 
I think to be homophobic one has to hate and act/speak that hate towards them. I think simply thinking that the act is wrong is not homophobia as long as you don't act or speak in a hostile/threatening/hateful tone.

i.e.

&quot;I personally believe the the act of homosexual sex is wrong, but I do not condemn, discriminate, legislate, or act out against homosexuals. I also do not believe that being homosexual is wrong.&quot;

= NOT homophobic


But saying one hates gays, wants to condemn, commit violence, etc IS homophobic.


You can disagree, just not act against PEOPLE or infringe on thier rights.

Clear as mud? 😉


And yes, Viper - I think there is a tendency among people to overuse the term to dismiss anyone who disagrees. But that happens with the term &quot;racist&quot; too.
 
What's the homosexual agenda though? I know they have parties that represent them that have an agenda, but how does homosexuality itself have an agenda? It's a personal conversation but I think you need to elaborate to see if the context in which the word was used would be &quot;acceptable&quot;.
 
<<their agenda.>>

What do you mean by this? Are you reffering to their lifestyle?? Or their political agenda??
 
Homosexuals aren't exactly a different group of people. They do have different ideas, but let's not forget that everyone is a potential homosexual. Homosexuals can become 'straight' and a 'straight' guy or gal can become homosexual. Usually, that is.

It's all between your ears 😉
 
By disagreeing with their agenda I mean believing the lifestyle is wrong, &amp; not supporting their political goals.

Viper GTS
 
Wow Viper, this is a brave post!
Talk about raising a touchy subject!

I have to agree with you that, while homophobia can be used to accurately describe the way some people react to those living as homosexuals, it has become commonplace to use it in contexts where the dictionary definition is not entirely appropriate.

I heard a statement from an NPR reporter who resigned because he &quot;objected to the constant, sutble ways NPR saturated their reporting with liberal propaganda&quot; or something like that. He insisted that, &quot;the opposite of 'homosexual' is 'heterosexual,' not 'homophobic.'&quot;

When 'homophobic' is used as a umbrella term to refer to anyone who has any objection to homosexuality as a concept, homosexuals as a group, or a homosexual in particular, it forces the implicit assumption that the 'irrational fear' is the motivating reason.

Is this true? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Does anyone seem to care about this distinction? Heyal no.
 
Then, no. I don't believe not agreeing with their lifestyle/politcal agenda falls into the description given by the definition.
 
if your are worried about the blanket application of the term, then
take issue with the media, mostly, who comandeer a sensible issue and
sensationalize, fear-monger, and betray true meanings and intent for
a little commercial gain on the six o'clock news.

i have seen enough people demonstrate a precisely irrational fear couched
in biblical drivel that nothing less than a clinical term would be apropo.
while there are gradations to rational and irrational fears, the
consequences on the subject tend not to reflect well or there are
dire repercussions.

there are also people sly enough to bury their irrational fears in the
most polite diplomatic language, using neutral terms, appealing to some
shared community interests. i think the hatred of certain peoples has
evolved to be more palatable to public consumption. hooded lynch mobs
of yesteryear are not longer effective or smart.
 
Well right there you say homosexuality is a lifestyle. So to you, your objection to homosexuality isn't irrational. To someone who believes homosexuality isn't a lifestyle or at least not comprised totally of choices (i.e. it's caused by genetics and/or environment), then your objection is irrational.
 
Well, I am afraid to bend over in San Fransisco, or Downtown Portland, If I dropped my wallet in either of those places, I would kick it all the way out of town, so I guess the term applies to me 🙂
 
It depends on your views of sexuality. If, for example, you view homosexuality as a trait or human characteristic, then discriminating or being afraid of homosexuals would be irrational and homophobia would be a good way of describe this.

I'm not sure this is really accurate. Why does innnate-ness make this fear irrational and elective-ness make it rational?
Both 'fears' seem irrational.

How would this fear (regardless of the innate/choice question) be 'rational?' What is the perceived threat exactly?

Or should we maybe use 'anxiety' here instead of 'fear?' (unfocused and vauge as opposed to accute and specific)

??
 
A guy that fears he is going to be sexually molested and/or his children will be molested by a gay man is a Homophobe. It is an irrational fear that has very, very little basis of truth.

A person that disagrees with the gay lifestyle is NOT a homophobe.

Disagreeing with the black culture does not make me a racist. Hating/fearing all blacks because I feel that they will steal my car and sell crack to my children does make me a racist.
 
If you were being branded as homophobic I'd take objection to it ViperGTS. Even though I think that homosexuality has something to do with genetics/environment and other factors than choices, I'd reserve the term homophobic for a person that doesn't think through the reasons behind the way they think. You probably have well thought-out religious reasons for believing the way you do and so I wouldn't say it's irrational.
 
isildur, what I'm trying to get at is most people don't discriminate (or say they won't) against people that may not be &quot;normal&quot; but are that way from birth or due to reasons beyond their control (i.e. disabled people, brain-damaged, people deemed ugly etc.). If homosexuality is from birth or through reasons beyond one's control, it's quite irrational (if you also agree with the above statement) to discriminate against homosexuals.
 
definitely a touchy subject. But, I would probably call my self a homophobe in the sense that I am afraid of homosexuality. It just freaks me out. That said I do know a couple of gay people and I don't try and beat the crap out of them. I treat them like normal people. They just do some things that make me sick. I would hate it if someone called me homophobic because they mean it in the sense of the KKK of gay people. It's a word with much distorted meaning. I mean if you have agoraphobia does that mean you discriminate open spaces and treat it like crap?
 
Homophobia is an extremely limited term that is basically plastered on a person/group if they dont agree with the gay/lesbian lifestyle. For example, I dont support the gay lifestyle, I have friends that are gay, I just dont agree with the choices that they make. Does that make me homophobic? No, because I am not afraid of homosexuals, I have no irrational fear of them, I just dont agree with their lifestyle choice. I view it the same way as I would view someone who smokes, I dont smoke, I dont like to smoke, but I am friends with many people that smoke. Am I tobaccophobic?

Some people are definitely homophobic, they fear homosexuality for whatever reason, maybe it threatens their way of life, maybe they dont want their kids to be affected, etc. The term 'homophobic' would be properly used to describe them, but too often it is just misused.

--Ben
 
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