Home theater price groups

[IHateMyJob2004]

WEll, with most things, you can spend next to nothing and get something funcitonal. Ro spend a bit more and gt something of quality but not awesome. Then there is the price point where spending a little more gets you very little imporvment, but you need to spend twice as much to get a minor improvment.

My example: Mountain Bikes.
1) Bottom of the barrrel is Wal-Mart:$100 or so for a junker. Works, but it's nothing great.
2) The step up is $400-$500. That's your entry lvel name brand bike (Schwinn, Trek, etc)
3) You can make imprvments up to $1500, but when you start spending more than $1500, you are really paying alot for minor improvments. The difference between $1000 and $1500 can be significant but the difference between $1500 and $2000 is fairly minor
4) Elite bikes are $5000+.

So, is there any general idealology to home theaters?
I'm guesisng entry level is a basic 5.1 system that comes packaged and a 19" TV. Then you go into entry level indivudal components(Sony/Pioneer,etc)...then add a sub ... then middle end (Carver, Harmon Karodn maybe) then the really good set up with couches and all and then the rediculous.

What are the "price levels"?

Wow, I hope someone responds.

 

[GasX]

19" tv? Maybe if you sit 2 feet from the screen.

HTIAB $500
27" TV $200

There's a real baseline.

next step:
HTIAB $500
27" Flat Screen $400

$1500 is kind of a starting point above that for a nice tv, receiver and speakers.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
19" tv? Maybe if you sit 2 feet from the screen.

HTIAB $500
27" TV $200

There's a real baseline.

next step:
HTIAB $500
27" Flat Screen $400

$1500 is kind of a starting point above that for a nice tv, receiver and speakers.

$700-$900 ishte starting point.

$1500 is the starting point in choosing compnent packages. Anyone want to get into this deeper?

PSA: HTIAB=Home Theater In A Box

 

[GasX]

If you really want to do this right, have a fair number of people list a HT system (TV, Receiver, Speakers) with individual prices. Cluster analysis will get you to your destination pretty quick if the sample size is there.

 

[MrChad]

For just audio components:

1. Bottom of the barrel: Home Theater in a Box, $500-1000 for receiver, amplifier and speakers
2. Entry level: Entry level receiver ($200 - 500), entry level speakers ($100 - 300 / speaker), entry level subwoofer ($100 - 300)
3. Middle end: Mid-fi receiver ($500 - 2000), mid-fi speakers ($300 - $1000 / speaker), mid-level sub ($300 - 1000)
4. High end: Preamp ($1000+), amplifier ($1000+), speakers ($1000+ / speaker), high-end sub ($1000+)

 

[GasX]

Here is a great site to show several grades of speakers: Home Theater Direct

You can get a set of level one 5.1 speakers for $149
You can get a set of "middies" speakers for $499
You can get a set of level two 5.1 speakers for $549
You can get a set of level three 5.1 speakers for $849
You can get a set of level four 5.1 speakers for $1299

I actually have the level 1's and while they are not great, they blow away television speakers and are a massive bang for the buck deal...

 

[EngenZerO]

Originally posted by: MrChad
For just audio components:

1. Bottom of the barrel: Home Theater in a Box, $500-1000 for receiver, amplifier and speakers
2. Entry level: Entry level receiver ($200 - 500), entry level speakers ($100 - 300 / speaker), entry level subwoofer ($100 - 300)
3. Middle end: Mid-fi receiver ($500 - 2000), mid-fi speakers ($300 - $1000 / speaker), mid-level sub ($300 - 1000)
4. High end: Preamp ($1000+), amplifier ($1000+), speakers ($1000+ / speaker), high-end sub ($1000+)

thats how about how i sum it up...

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: MrChad
For just audio components:

1. Bottom of the barrel: Home Theater in a Box, $500-1000 for receiver, amplifier and speakers
2. Entry level: Entry level receiver ($200 - 500), entry level speakers ($100 - 300 / speaker), entry level subwoofer ($100 - 300)
3. Middle end: Mid-fi receiver ($500 - 2000), mid-fi speakers ($300 - $1000 / speaker), mid-level sub ($300 - 1000)
4. High end: Preamp ($1000+), amplifier ($1000+), speakers ($1000+ / speaker), high-end sub ($1000+)

Yikes! It's a good thing we have DIY.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: MrChad
For just audio components:

1. Bottom of the barrel: Home Theater in a Box, $500-1000 for receiver, amplifier and speakers
2. Entry level: Entry level receiver ($200 - 500), entry level speakers ($100 - 300 / speaker), entry level subwoofer ($100 - 300)
3. Middle end: Mid-fi receiver ($500 - 2000), mid-fi speakers ($300 - $1000 / speaker), mid-level sub ($300 - 1000)
4. High end: Preamp ($1000+), amplifier ($1000+), speakers ($1000+ / speaker), high-end sub ($1000+)

Nice

I was looking for something like this.

In regards to high end, where is the point that paying twice as much will only get you slightly better gear? For example, $10,000 speakers are only slightly better than $5000. What are those $$$ numbers though. Clearly $500 speakers will blow away $250 speakers, but once you get up there in cost....that is the question.

I perosnally think something along the lines of a 42" Sony XBR as being the top end for TVs. 36" depending on room/budget. I'd imagine once you go beyond the 42" Sony XBR, you are looking at well over twice the cost for a TV for only minimal gain in quality.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In regards to high end, where is the point that paying twice as much will only get you slightly better gear? For example, $10,000 speakers are only slightly better than $5000. What are those $$$ numbers though. Clearly $500 speakers will blow away $250 speakers, but once you get up there in cost....that is the question.

I think it depends on a number of factors. Distinguishing between very high-end components is something only well-trained audiophiles are able to do. The differences are extremely subtle, and they are often highly dependent on things like the source of music being played (SACD, DVD-Audio or analog sources -- yes, vinyl -- are needed) and the acoustics of the room being used.

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
I perosnally think something along the lines of a 42" Sony XBR as being the top end for TVs. 36" depending on room/budget. I'd imagine once you go beyond the 42" Sony XBR, you are looking at well over twice the cost for a TV for only minimal gain in quality.

Sony XBRs are very nice for CRT-based televisions. High-end home theaters generally have front projector systems though.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In regards to high end, where is the point that paying twice as much will only get you slightly better gear? For example, $10,000 speakers are only slightly better than $5000. What are those $$$ numbers though. Clearly $500 speakers will blow away $250 speakers, but once you get up there in cost....that is the question.

I think it depends on a number of factors. Distinguishing between very high-end components is something only well-trained audiophiles are able to do. The differences are extremely subtle, and they are often highly dependent on things like the source of music being played (SACD, DVD-Audio or analog sources -- yes, vinyl -- are needed) and the acoustics of the room being used.

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
I perosnally think something along the lines of a 42" Sony XBR as being the top end for TVs. 36" depending on room/budget. I'd imagine once you go beyond the 42" Sony XBR, you are looking at well over twice the cost for a TV for only minimal gain in quality.

Sony XBRs are very nice for CRT-based televisions. High-end home theaters generally have front projector systems though.

In theory if you'd go projection, you'd probably go VERY high end though. That's my assumption anyways

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
In theory if you'd go projection, you'd probably go VERY high end though. That's my assumption anyways

Not necessarily. You can buy low-end front projectors (such as the InFocus X1) for around $1000. That's cheaper than high-end CRTs these days.

 

[purbeast0]

ill tell you what i tell everyone else that is considering a HTIB system ... DON'T DO IT!

piece together a system and you will be MUCH happier in the long run. sure you can buy a "decent" HTIB system for like $500, but it will be crap! the front speakers are basically the same as the rear speakers and center speakers. they typicall consist of a sub w/5 identical speakers. that is not what you want for a 5.1 system. you need 3 different speakers, front, center, and rears. each type of speaker is designed to do different tasks and each speaker is different internally (for a real 5.1 system). these HTIB systems typically have 5 of the same speakers.

if i were you (or anyone who wants a 5.1 system) i would set aside $1000 and buy a decent receiver and 2 front speakers. then next paycheck get a center or sub, then next check get the one you didnt get. then next check get the rears.

the backbone of ANY system is the receiver. if you don't have a good receiver, you won't be pushing your system. i really recommend getting a receiver that is good and starting there. receivers can last a LONG time. the technology is there for 7.1 (maybe better?) systems already, and i really don't think you will be using even 7.1 any time soon. so it will last you a long time. i know my receiver has 7.1 in it and i don't use it at all and haven't for the past 4 years of owning it, only 5.1

again though, its just about who you are too. if you aren't huge on audio then don't spend a bunch on a system. but i can pretty much guarantee you one thing ... if you get a 5.1 system in the box, after about a month of using it, you are going to be like "this sounds much better than TV, but i want it to sound better." i am glad i held off on the HTIB and pieced together a system instead. it took me about 2 months more, but it is WAY worth it.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: MrChad
For just audio components:

1. Bottom of the barrel: Home Theater in a Box, $500-1000 for receiver, amplifier and speakers
2. Entry level: Entry level receiver ($200 - 500), entry level speakers ($100 - 300 / speaker), entry level subwoofer ($100 - 300)
3. Middle end: Mid-fi receiver ($500 - 2000), mid-fi speakers ($300 - $1000 / speaker), mid-level sub ($300 - 1000)
4. High end: Preamp ($1000+), amplifier ($1000+), speakers ($1000+ / speaker), high-end sub ($1000+)

Nice

I was looking for something like this.

In regards to high end, where is the point that paying twice as much will only get you slightly better gear? For example, $10,000 speakers are only slightly better than $5000. What are those $$$ numbers though. Clearly $500 speakers will blow away $250 speakers, but once you get up there in cost....that is the question.

I perosnally think something along the lines of a 42" Sony XBR as being the top end for TVs. 36" depending on room/budget. I'd imagine once you go beyond the 42" Sony XBR, you are looking at well over twice the cost for a TV for only minimal gain in quality.

Paying twice as much depends on what your starting point is. If you're talking 500.00 receiver vs. 1000.00 receiver, there can be a difference, but depends on what company you use.
500.00 speaker vs. 1000.00 speaker, there'll generally be an audible difference, but again, depends on if you're comparing speakers from the same company or not.
Some companies are able to charge 1000.00 for their 500.00 speakers, so you need to listen to them to tell if they are better or not.
After you get over 1500-2000 for a receiver, it's pretty much pointless to go any higher; You're better off going with separates at that point. Separates are nearly always better.
So don't go and buy a 3000.00 receiver, get a separate preamp/amp and you'll be ahead of the game.

I'd say that for a general point of diminishing returns, once you've got about 5000 into your system, not including the TV, you aren't going to hear that much difference by doubling what you're spent, ESPECIALLY for home theatre.
Audiophiles will argue 'til they're blue in the face over minor differences, but the bottom line is, there simply isn't that much difference in the really high-dollar stuff.
But if someone goes out and buys a set of 30,000 speakers, you can bet that their mind will convince them that they hear a big difference. That's just human nature.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: MrChad
For just audio components:

1. Bottom of the barrel: Home Theater in a Box, $500-1000 for receiver, amplifier and speakers
2. Entry level: Entry level receiver ($200 - 500), entry level speakers ($100 - 300 / speaker), entry level subwoofer ($100 - 300)
3. Middle end: Mid-fi receiver ($500 - 2000), mid-fi speakers ($300 - $1000 / speaker), mid-level sub ($300 - 1000)
4. High end: Preamp ($1000+), amplifier ($1000+), speakers ($1000+ / speaker), high-end sub ($1000+)

Nice

I was looking for something like this.

In regards to high end, where is the point that paying twice as much will only get you slightly better gear? For example, $10,000 speakers are only slightly better than $5000. What are those $$$ numbers though. Clearly $500 speakers will blow away $250 speakers, but once you get up there in cost....that is the question.

I perosnally think something along the lines of a 42" Sony XBR as being the top end for TVs. 36" depending on room/budget. I'd imagine once you go beyond the 42" Sony XBR, you are looking at well over twice the cost for a TV for only minimal gain in quality.

Paying twice as much depends on what your starting point is. If you're talking 500.00 receiver vs. 1000.00 receiver, there can be a difference, but depends on what company you use.
500.00 speaker vs. 1000.00 speaker, there'll generally be an audible difference, but again, depends on if you're comparing speakers from the same company or not.
Some companies are able to charge 1000.00 for their 500.00 speakers, so you need to listen to them to tell if they are better or not.
After you get over 1500-2000 for a receiver, it's pretty much pointless to go any higher; You're better off going with separates at that point. Separates are nearly always better.
So don't go and buy a 3000.00 receiver, get a separate preamp/amp and you'll be ahead of the game.

I'd say that for a general point of diminishing returns, once you've got about 5000 into your system, not including the TV, you aren't going to hear that much difference by doubling what you're spent, ESPECIALLY for home theatre.
Audiophiles will argue 'til they're blue in the face over minor differences, but the bottom line is, there simply isn't that much difference in the really high-dollar stuff.
But if someone goes out and buys a set of 30,000 speakers, you can bet that their mind will convince them that they hear a big difference. That's just human nature.

Yep. There's not that much difference once you start getting into the really high-dollar stuff. A $8000 set of speakers won't sound drastically different when compared with a $20000 set of speakers. They might have minute differences but in general they will be similar SQ wise. What you end up paying for when you buy those $20000 speakers is (hopefully) craftmanship, support, etc. For example, they'll be hand-made out of real wood instead of particle board. Still doesn't deter me from wanting a full 7.1 set of Paradigm Signature Series speakers though.

 

[GasX]

Getting back to the low end, here is a uber-cheap system that will blow your mind if you are used to listening to the blown tinny speakers on your old tv set...

Sherwood 6.1 Receiver
HTD Level One 5.1 Speakers

Total cost before tax and shipping: $248

This will destroy most HTIAB systems (note the lack of DVD player...)

I submit that this should be the new baseline system. I'll come up with a second tier system in a few...

 

[zinkpig]

heres my budget setup..i cant think of a significant upgrade without spending a lot more. All the speakers are 3 way by the way and i purchased every thing brandnew. and those prices include shipping.
yamaha 7390 fronts 140
yamaha 6490 surrounds+center 100(50 per pair bestbuy clearance, i still have one surround that i am keeping to upgrade to 6.1)
panasonic he 75 receiver 170
dayton 150 watt sub 100
soundking speaker cable 30
total 535

The only thing i wsh i had done was not return the yamaha htr 5760 i picked up at sears clearance for 140.
my 2 cents : stay far far away from htibs. try not to buy every thing at once its cheaper to buy as and when you see them on sale. Ebay is a great place to look too. Search around your area and bid on those so you can save shipping. This alllows you to top others who are usually paying shipping.

 

[zinkpig]

btw: heres a cheap receiver http://www.yamahashoponline.com/product.asp?sku=2224809

 

[GasX]

Here is my level 2 set-up:
Rocket Tyke Home Theater with Kenwood VRS 7100 Receiver Bundle
$599

Here is my level 3 set-up:
Denon 1804 $400
Rocket by Onix Estremely Lucious Home Theater $699
or
HTD Level 3 $799
~$1199

Here is my level 4 set-up:
Denon 2805 $700
B&W 600 Series 5.1 Speaker ~$2000
4 DM601 Bookshelf Speakers, 1 LCR60 Center Channel, 1 ASW600 Sub
~$2700

Each step is a significant increase in quality and price (roughly double for each level). My two lower levels are huge bang for the buck deals. YMMV

 

[GasX]

ummm, wtf happened to my post?

nvm - i fixed it

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
ill tell you what i tell everyone else that is considering a HTIB system ... DON'T DO IT!

This really depends on what you want and what your priorities are. Some people don't have the money, or just don't watch enough tv/movies to justify spending thousands of dollars on a home theater system. For many people, myself included, an inexpensive HTIB works great and meets their needs.

Two years ago, I bought a Philips HTIB for $179. Before that, I had never owned a DVD player. Going from VHS with crappy speakers on an 8 year old 27" tv to 5.1 surround sound and DVD picture was a HUGE improvement. The first DVD we watched was Reign of Fire. Mediocre movie, but I still remember being amazed at how good it looked and sounded. That was probably the best <$200 investment I've ever made. I'm still using the system today, except I replaced the old tv with a 32" Toshiba CRT, and I'm still very happy with it. Sure, it may not sound as good as a much more expensive system, but to me, it sounds great and having surround sound makes the movie experience so much better. Mine does have 4 identical speakers, but the center speaker is different.

I'm sure I'll upgrade at some point, probably after I get a big screen HDTV, but for now, my cheap HTIB works great and was well worth the $179 I spend two years ago.

EDIT: For me, the biggest improvement was just having a sub. Having surround helps, but being able to feel the explosions in an action movie really make it more enjoyable.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

Every component has a different range of price groups. The price groups also depend on the person buying the equipment. When I started getting into HT, I never thought I could spend $1000 on six speakers. Now I could see spending $1000 for two speakers.

For example:
For DVD players you have the <$100, <$200,<$500, $500-$1000, $1000+
For Receivers you have <$200-$300, $400-$600, $700 - $999, $1000+
For TV's, it would depend on the type of TV (CRT, DLP, Plasma, etc.)
For speakers it may depend on which speaker, L/R, Center, Surround but there's also ranges in sets of speakers.

I agree that once you get above a certain level the increase in performance is very little but there are certain points where the extra money is well worth it.

The most important thing is listening in your own home, using material you're familiar with.

 

[Pacfanweb]

My advice to anyone who is a home theatre enthusiast, but doesn't have anything decent and is in the market:
Go with separates. Buy the ultimate set of speakers you REALISTICALLY think you'll ever want/can afford/talk-the-wife-into, whatever. Do this first.

Then, since theoretically you can't buy a matching-quality receiver/prepro/amp, buy at least a mid-level surround receiver.
Suit yourself with the DVD player and TV.

Then, you can start accumulating your separates. Hopefully, you'd have a receiver with pre-out jacks, so at some point you get yourself a really nice multi-channel amp. A Denon 3805 receiver isn't outrageous in price, and lots of folks use it as a preamp only, with a really good amp.
Then, later on, you can buy your dream pre-amp, and you're good to go.

The reason I recommend getting the speakers first is, they don't get outdated. There really haven't been any TRUE improvements in top-quality speakers for the last 15 years. If you have a set of McIntosh XRT 20's from the early 90's, for example, their newest stuff isn't any better....in fact, their top of the line speakers really aren't much different.
Lower end stuff has gotten better, but the high end speakers haven't. They remodel, reconfigure, and repackage speakers every few years, but that's just to create new needs.
You can rest assured that if you spend 3-5k on a set of speakers now, in 10 years they'll be just as good as whatever that same company has replaced them with.

This is NOT the case with pre/pros. There are advances every year, like in PC's, and you can't just buy a nice surround preamp and sit on it for the next 25 years like you used to be able to.
I recommend going with a company like B&amp;K, whose products are upgradeable. Who wants to buy a 2000.00 preamp and have it be obsolete in 4 years?

Amplifiers aren't really much better, either. If you get a high-end amp, you can use it for 20 years, and there won't be anything significantly better.
I use a 25 year old McIntosh MC2205 amp for my main speakers, and it sounded better than the 2003 NAD receiver I was using before I hooked it up. Then again, McIntosh is high end stuff....my dad paid close to 2000.00 for that amp in the 70's. :Q
I had it repaired last year, hooked it up just to make sure it worked, and couldn't believe how much better my system sounded.

Cliff notes: Buy the best speaker you can possible afford, and gradually upgrade the other components to match them as time goes on.
JMHO.