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home solar worth even more than previously thought utilities argue back

Complete rubbish of course. They're putting things like "social cost of carbon" and other BS "costs" into the process (without including the "social" cost of manufacturing the materials needed for the solar panels). Then they use those BS numbers to say that the energy created by solar is worth more than what it actually is. This is why politics and science don't mix.
 
PokerGuy said:
Complete rubbish of course. They're putting things like "social cost of carbon" and other BS "costs" into the process (without including the "social" cost of manufacturing the materials needed for the solar panels). Then they use those BS numbers to say that the energy created by solar is worth more than what it actually is. This is why politics and science don't mix.
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How do you know those are not included in the calculation?
 
I'm generally distrustful of utilitilies since they in So Cal at least they are always invovled in fraud and corruption with the likes of Enron (known) and JPMorgan (known but not heavy in news feed).

Anything that gives more incentive to keep utilities honest is great, but generally anyone in the country should be happy they don't have to deal with Southern California Edison and CPUC tandem corruption squad team where rates quickly escalate to 0.31c kwh and Edison and CPUC have gotten together to try and increase rates another 15-20% over the next few years.
 
check with your power provider..the "reverse metering" that made these deals look reasonable is coming to an end.
 
IGBT said:
check with your power provider..the "reverse metering" that made these deals look reasonable is coming to an end.
Click to expand...
I've actually heard pros and cons of that. The problem with residential solar is that we don't have a valid way to store what we capture without maintaining battery banks and storing it in DC.

Selling power back allows for all of the customers to provide the companies with a vast solar array on someone else's property. They can essentially back-feed the grid without the cost of the panels being on the utility companies...THEN they can buy X-amount of power at $.75 and sell it for $1....profit!

The problem is, the cost of metering and the bill back, and taxes takes most of the profit.

I've even read some of the larger solar customers say the companies haven't been eager to pay anything back at all, despite their advertising. I want to do solar, but not to generate electricity...just to generate heat.
 
They won't do net metering in Arkansas because the utilities want the state to insure them against damage and the state constitution doesn't allow the state to assume the debts or liabilities of a private business.
 
Scarpozzi said:
I've actually heard pros and cons of that. The problem with residential solar is that we don't have a valid way to store what we capture without maintaining battery banks and storing it in DC.

Selling power back allows for all of the customers to provide the companies with a vast solar array on someone else's property. They can essentially back-feed the grid without the cost of the panels being on the utility companies...THEN they can buy X-amount of power at $.75 and sell it for $1....profit!

The problem is, the cost of metering and the bill back, and taxes takes most of the profit.

I've even read some of the larger solar customers say the companies haven't been eager to pay anything back at all, despite their advertising. I want to do solar, but not to generate electricity...just to generate heat.
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It may make more sense to move to a smaller house (painted matte black may function similar to solar panels), and perhaps eliminate windows. The initial and operational cost of such a house is lower when compare to a glass mcmansion solar home.

R-11 2x4 wall
R-19 2x6 wall
R-30 2x10 wall (two 2x4 wall with center air space)
R-4 double low e glass with argon
R-6 triple low e glass with argon

add:
2x10 wall with air space in between would add the benefit of sound dampening as well.
 
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dank69 said:
How do you know those are not included in the calculation?
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Because they don't have access to that information. Most of the panels are made in china, using raw materials from china. There's no way to determine with any accuracy what the "social cost" of something like that in China is if you don't get access to the underlying information, and even then it's extremely sketchy.

I'm on board with calculating the actual worth of the electricity and having the utilities pay fair market value for it, but when you start seeing EPA reports about social costs of carbon and other such bull, you know the fix is in.
 
While the sun is up pump water to the top of a tower. Use the energy of the falling water to run generators at night. In the daytime spin a massive well greased flywheel in a vacuum chamber. At night use that energy to generate electricity.
 
IGBT said:
check with your power provider..the "reverse metering" that made these deals look reasonable is coming to an end.
Click to expand...

Especially as some will actually charge you more if you use such devices as a way of getting their income back and then some.
 
IGBT said:
check with your power provider..the "reverse metering" that made these deals look reasonable is coming to an end.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is that you would think that it would help normalize demand to some extent. When we had rolling black outs years ago it was always during the warmest time of the day when everyone's AC was blasting but solar panels would be generating nicely at that time (although, I know that heat decreases solar panel efficiency in general). By the time the sun goes down, commercial demand would go down enough to make up for the increase in residential demand.
 
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