highland145
Lifer
- Oct 12, 2009
- 43,973
- 6,340
- 136
oakum and lead joinery is old school. My bro is one of the few around here that will still do it.
Chances are in an old house that the toilet leaked, the floor rotted and the flange
is tight to the bottom of the toilet but coming loose from the floor. New house
shoddy workmanship, plumber cut the hole too large or forgot to screw the
flange down.
is tight to the bottom of the toilet but coming loose from the floor. New house
shoddy workmanship, plumber cut the hole too large or forgot to screw the
flange down.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
A lack of "weird shims" translates better to "it was put in wrong in the first place." There should be no reason for some type of shims, unless the flange is installed too high.
But, holy cow, that's cheap for a plumber. It would be far more in much of the country.
MrPickins
Diamond Member
- May 24, 2003
- 9,125
- 792
- 126
Have a wide and large plastic bin near by if you can that you can set the toilet into if possible. Will help prevent wedged in poo and water from getting everywhere.
I know from experience
The bathtub works pretty well for this, but I always lay down an old towel to prevent scuffing the tub.
Yeah, definitely clean the wax from the old ring. A putty knife works well for this.
If you're careful, you can lean the toilet over just far enough to clean the bottom (once it's in the tub) without pouring out much water.
Old house may have brass flange with lead soil pipe. Lead can be bent back out then a new flange put in place and pound the lead back to the flange.
It is possible that the flange is damage due to poor install, and the closet bolts has slipped off its groove. Or, the sub floor underneath the toilet is damaged/rotten.
A new piece of ply wood can be install in place with extra backing for support if needed. Cut the soil pipe off then glue a short length of soil pipe (4" or 3") via an ABS/PVC coupling (make sure that it is above the finish floor), or attach it via a mechanical/rubber coupling. Then glue the new flange in place after cut off the new pipe flush to the floor. Screw down the flange to the floor using 1.5" or longer screws, and make sure that the closet bolt groves are line up and in a position that it will not move off the groves once you attach the toilet to it. Clean the toilet bottom and attach a wax ring then bolt it to the flange/floor (wax ring with funnel is better than plain wax ring, sit on the toilet before bolt down to make sure the surface mate, and line up the toilet to the wall so it is square before bolt down).
Clean the area around the edge of the toilet base and floor, and put a small bead of white 100% silicone around the base then wet your fingers to make a clean bead.
Good luck.
It is possible that the flange is damage due to poor install, and the closet bolts has slipped off its groove. Or, the sub floor underneath the toilet is damaged/rotten.
A new piece of ply wood can be install in place with extra backing for support if needed. Cut the soil pipe off then glue a short length of soil pipe (4" or 3") via an ABS/PVC coupling (make sure that it is above the finish floor), or attach it via a mechanical/rubber coupling. Then glue the new flange in place after cut off the new pipe flush to the floor. Screw down the flange to the floor using 1.5" or longer screws, and make sure that the closet bolt groves are line up and in a position that it will not move off the groves once you attach the toilet to it. Clean the toilet bottom and attach a wax ring then bolt it to the flange/floor (wax ring with funnel is better than plain wax ring, sit on the toilet before bolt down to make sure the surface mate, and line up the toilet to the wall so it is square before bolt down).
Clean the area around the edge of the toilet base and floor, and put a small bead of white 100% silicone around the base then wet your fingers to make a clean bead.
Good luck.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
After turning off the water supply and flushing the tank as empty as you can, hit the bowl with a plunger a few times - that'll help push some of the water out of the trap such that a little bit of tilt while moving the toilet doesn't result in water spilling out.
Get most of the water out, then use a sponge and a pair of rubber gloves to fish out the rest of the water.
Doppel
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2011
- 13,306
- 3
- 0
In his defense alkemyst didn't say it's hard, merely that it's messy. IF you can get this repaired for $75 it is not money badly spent. I moved a toilet a couple years back. The house was only a few years old and even still it wasn't particularly pleasant. On an old one it could be filthy.
Now, if the OP does have a damaged flange, worse case he needs to cut the old one off or install an inside new flange if existing is plastic, but in either case starts becoming more work than it may be worth if he's not familiar with it. The wax ring alone only comes into play after he resolves the rocking, so it sure sounds like he needs to redo that flange in any case.
I'd personally give it a shot myself, but that's how I roll. I am installing a toilet in the next week or so in fact.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
When your toilet valve then starts leaking....
When the wax gasket is all over the place and fecal matter leaked...
When you have to run back to the hardware store....
It's $75 or so, the cost of dinner out for a couple.
The only time that your toilet leaks under the toilet is that the toilet is cracked/broken, or the sewer is plug.
Water go down hill therefore it will not reverse up on to the flange/floor. The wax ring is to prevent splashing and mainly to maintain an air seal to prevent sewer gas from entering your living space.
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alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
or they didn't install the toilet right to begin with.
Don't know what to tell ya bro. He had to install something that he was was more than just a shim and then but a new wax ring in.
The previous owner but this rubber thing in to bridge the gap from the old subfloor and the new.
No leaks and I still have the same toilet.
When reassembling the toilet, ensure to reassemble in this order:
The toilet in the apartment I am currently living in had a fore and aft rock to it. I removed the toilet and found somebody before me had first tightened the nuts on the bolts to keep the bolts in place standing straight up. Then they put the toilet down on top the nuts. I am surprised the toilet did not crack.
- put the wax ring down,
- put the two side bolts on the floor,
- set the toilet down on the wax ring and side bolts,
- place the nuts on the threaded bolts and tighten.
The toilet in the apartment I am currently living in had a fore and aft rock to it. I removed the toilet and found somebody before me had first tightened the nuts on the bolts to keep the bolts in place standing straight up. Then they put the toilet down on top the nuts. I am surprised the toilet did not crack.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
I thought you were a genius. A child could put in a wax seal & tighten a toilet down properly. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
Simple repair, a teen ager could do it. Save $50 and do it yourself.
Score some new bolts (the existing bolts are usually rusted and a pita, new ones are cheap and so much nicer to work with) and flange, and you're golden, it's a flipping Crescent wrench level repair, difficulty level of 1 out of 5.
Now wrenching on an expensive car, that's another story... This is a 100 year old technology toilet.
You paid someone to do it? Christ.
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