Home Electricians - how would you wire in an AAA-powered device?

[Kaido]

I'm working on a little "smart home" project. One of the devices is wireless and is powered by two AAA batteries. It's a small motion sensor with a wireless transceiver inside:

http://www.machomestore.com/ca...nfo.php?products_id=83

I found a nice little tutorial on converting it to solar power for about $15:

http://www.shed.com/tutor/mssolarhack.html

How would I convert this device to be powered by an in-wall power source? Not by a wall plug, but by direct wiring.

 

[nakedfrog]

By using a wall plug that's directly wired

 

[herm0016]

you will have to convert the 120vac down to 3v dc. the easiest way wold be use a wall wart that outputs the correct voltage and to wire a simple female plug inside the wall. if you are so inclined, you an remove the case from the transformer and wire it directly to line voltage, but this is not necessary, and it will be much safer to leave the case on.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
By using a wall plug that's directly wired

Would that be safe (and legal) for in-wall installation?

 

[Gand1]

froggie you silly uncertified electrician........


get a 110 to whatever voltage transformer you need...

 

[dullard]

You need to convert from ~115V AC to ~3V DC. There are plenty of devices that do this for you. The easiest of all is the common "wall wart" type of plug. Something like this should be well under $10.

If you don't want a plug, you can just as easilly get a power supply that is directly wired. I don't really see the purpose of avoiding the plug though.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: dullard
You need to convert from ~115V AC to ~3V DC. There are plenty of devices that do this for you. The easiest of all is the common "wall wart" type of plug. Something like this should be well under $10.

If you don't want a plug, you can just as easilly get a power supply that is directly wired. I don't really see the purpose of avoiding the plug though.

Well imagine having 15 of these devices on your wall with wires hanging down 5 feet connected externally to a wallwart Thus the internal power mod - hides the wiring, no batteries to change!

As far as the wallwart method, would I just wire the battery jacks directly to the wallwart line?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm working on a little "smart home" project. One of the devices is wireless and is powered by two AAA batteries. It's a small motion sensor with a wireless transceiver inside:

http://www.machomestore.com/ca...nfo.php?products_id=83

I found a nice little tutorial on converting it to solar power for about $15:

http://www.shed.com/tutor/mssolarhack.html

How would I convert this device to be powered by an in-wall power source? Not by a wall plug, but by direct wiring.

Take a picture of the back for us. Often those devices use a voltage regulator that can handle up to 15 or 25 volts, and if that's the case, you can just use a 9V wall wart from around the house that has a sufficient current rating.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
By using a wall plug that's directly wired

Would that be safe (and legal) for in-wall installation?

I doubt it would be legal.

I'm not an electrician, but I'd probably do the conversion outside of the wall (i.e. in your basement) and then run low voltage wiring suitable for in-wall installation. That's how it would be done with an alarm system.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
By using a wall plug that's directly wired

Would that be safe (and legal) for in-wall installation?

I doubt it would be legal.

I'm not an electrician, but I'd probably do the conversion outside of the wall (i.e. in your basement) and then run low voltage wiring suitable for in-wall installation. That's how it would be done with an alarm system.

Yeah my current place has an older (non-working) alarm system with motion sensors in it (previous user had it setup), so I know it's possible. I just need to brush up on home electrical 101

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm working on a little "smart home" project. One of the devices is wireless and is powered by two AAA batteries. It's a small motion sensor with a wireless transceiver inside:

http://www.machomestore.com/ca...nfo.php?products_id=83

I found a nice little tutorial on converting it to solar power for about $15:

http://www.shed.com/tutor/mssolarhack.html

How would I convert this device to be powered by an in-wall power source? Not by a wall plug, but by direct wiring.

Take a picture of the back for us. Often those devices use a voltage regulator that can handle up to 15 or 25 volts, and if that's the case, you can just use a 9V wall wart from around the house that has a sufficient current rating.

I haven't purchased it yet, still researching. Here's a front and back photo, although it has the battery cover on so I don't know how helpful it would be:

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Image:Ms16a.jpg

How would you actually wire the wallwart to the sensor?

 

[lytalbayre]

What is the Motion Sensor controlling?

I think part of the solution might be to purchase a device that is meant to be hard wired that does the same thing, no? We're talking about your home. No need to do things out of code and ruin your chances of an insurance claim, should it come to it.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gand1
froggie you silly uncertified electrician........


get a 110 to whatever voltage transformer you need...

QFT. The tranformer is the key...however it's probably going to be a lot larger than the sensor unit.

You really can't put this kind of thing 'in wall' legally...at least not here.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: lytalbayre
What is the Motion Sensor controlling?

I think part of the solution might be to purchase a device that is meant to be hard wired that does the same thing, no? We're talking about your home. No need to do things out of code and ruin your chances of an insurance claim, should it come to it.

The cheap X10/INSTEON stuff only comes in wireless. The rest of the equipment actually works through powerlines. The powerline controllers receive the wireless transmissions from the motion sensors, which then relay the signals back to the server. It's not a dealbreaker to just use the batteries since the battery life is supposed to be around 11 months, but it's just one less hassle to deal with (changing batteries).

I don't want to do it out of code, which is why I'm asking for advice

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Kaido
As far as the wallwart method, would I just wire the battery jacks directly to the wallwart line?

that should be all you'd need to do to have the unit powered from the wallwart.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm working on a little "smart home" project. One of the devices is wireless and is powered by two AAA batteries. It's a small motion sensor with a wireless transceiver inside:

http://www.machomestore.com/ca...nfo.php?products_id=83

I found a nice little tutorial on converting it to solar power for about $15:

http://www.shed.com/tutor/mssolarhack.html

How would I convert this device to be powered by an in-wall power source? Not by a wall plug, but by direct wiring.

Take a picture of the back for us. Often those devices use a voltage regulator that can handle up to 15 or 25 volts, and if that's the case, you can just use a 9V wall wart from around the house that has a sufficient current rating.

I haven't purchased it yet, still researching. Here's a front and back photo, although it has the battery cover on so I don't know how helpful it would be:

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Image:Ms16a.jpg

How would you actually wire the wallwart to the sensor?

Usually, 2 battery holders are wired like this, where the minus of one battery is connected to the plus of the next by a simple strip of metal. Assuming that's the case, all you'd need to do is solder to the two points that are not connected.

Oh, and that pic's far too blurry to be of use, sorry.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Gand1
froggie you silly uncertified electrician........


get a 110 to whatever voltage transformer you need...

QFT. The tranformer is the key...however it's probably going to be a lot larger than the sensor unit.

You really can't put this kind of thing 'in wall' legally...at least not here.

How do existing installations do it? My place has wired motion sensors in place already, although it's connected to a proprietary system that wasn't working when we moved in. That both gets power and gives a signal over in-wall wiring, so there must be a way to do it legally.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm working on a little "smart home" project. One of the devices is wireless and is powered by two AAA batteries. It's a small motion sensor with a wireless transceiver inside:

http://www.machomestore.com/ca...nfo.php?products_id=83

I found a nice little tutorial on converting it to solar power for about $15:

http://www.shed.com/tutor/mssolarhack.html

How would I convert this device to be powered by an in-wall power source? Not by a wall plug, but by direct wiring.

Take a picture of the back for us. Often those devices use a voltage regulator that can handle up to 15 or 25 volts, and if that's the case, you can just use a 9V wall wart from around the house that has a sufficient current rating.

I haven't purchased it yet, still researching. Here's a front and back photo, although it has the battery cover on so I don't know how helpful it would be:

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Image:Ms16a.jpg

How would you actually wire the wallwart to the sensor?

Usually, 2 battery holders are wired like this, where the minus of one battery is connected to the plus of the next by a simple strip of metal. Assuming that's the case, all you'd need to do is solder to the two points that are not connected.

Oh, and that pic's far too blurry to be of use, sorry.

Well, that's easy enough!

As a temp solution, I could always just install some Wiremold. It'd be kinda ugly, but I wouldn't have to tear into the walls.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Kaido
I don't want to do it out of code, which is why I'm asking for advice

Simply put, you really can't do it in a way that would wind up being legal.

You're more than likely violating the conditions under which it was given UL approval and not following the manufacturer's instructions on proper installation and usage of the device. That right there is pretty important and why you'll be hard pressed to have this configured in a way to be up to your local electrical code.

 

[lytalbayre]

Another option would be to buy a low voltage panel with multiple outs (10 or 12 is possible) that can be hardwired directly to a circuit of your main power in an attic space or something. Then you can run the Low voltage lines down into the walls to feed the devices directly. Kinda a big job, but it avoids a transformer for each unit, plus low voltage cable can be run freely in walls.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: lytalbayre
Another option would be to buy a low voltage panel with multiple outs (10 or 12 is possible) that can be hardwired directly to a circuit of your main power in an attic space or something. Then you can run the Low voltage lines down into the walls to feed the devices directly. Kinda a big job, but it avoids a transformer for each unit, plus low voltage cable can be run freely in walls.

That's a great idea...this place actually has great access from the basement, so it'd be a cinch to run wiring up (I've already got Gigabit Ethernet installed!). Low voltage lines can run a pretty long ways, right? Can I vary the voltage per wire for different hardware requirements?

 

[DrPizza]

Think about doorbell transformers & wiring.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Well imagine having 15 of these devices on your wall with wires hanging down 5 feet connected externally to a wallwart Thus the internal power mod - hides the wiring, no batteries to change!

As far as the wallwart method, would I just wire the battery jacks directly to the wallwart line?

I was going to respond by saying exactly this, but lytalbayre beat me:

Originally posted by: lytalbayre
Another option would be to buy a low voltage panel with multiple outs (10 or 12 is possible) that can be hardwired directly to a circuit of your main power in an attic space or something. Then you can run the Low voltage lines down into the walls to feed the devices directly. Kinda a big job, but it avoids a transformer for each unit, plus low voltage cable can be run freely in walls.

All you need is one wall wart or one transformer or one power supply (with enough wattage to power all of your devices of course). Then run the low voltage wires directly to your devices.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: lytalbayre
Another option would be to buy a low voltage panel with multiple outs (10 or 12 is possible) that can be hardwired directly to a circuit of your main power in an attic space or something. Then you can run the Low voltage lines down into the walls to feed the devices directly. Kinda a big job, but it avoids a transformer for each unit, plus low voltage cable can be run freely in walls.

That's a great idea...this place actually has great access from the basement, so it'd be a cinch to run wiring up (I've already got Gigabit Ethernet installed!). Low voltage lines can run a pretty long ways, right? Can I vary the voltage per wire for different hardware requirements?

Would just depend on the panel.

You could find a 3V, couple amp power supply, and hard wire it to a terminal strip, and run your wires from that.

Really, it would be easier to just use devices that are meant to be hardwired. Unless you start drilling holes and using grommets, trying to attach power to a device that requires batteries is going to be a pain in the ass and ugly.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: lytalbayre
Another option would be to buy a low voltage panel with multiple outs (10 or 12 is possible) that can be hardwired directly to a circuit of your main power in an attic space or something. Then you can run the Low voltage lines down into the walls to feed the devices directly. Kinda a big job, but it avoids a transformer for each unit, plus low voltage cable can be run freely in walls.

That's a great idea...this place actually has great access from the basement, so it'd be a cinch to run wiring up (I've already got Gigabit Ethernet installed!). Low voltage lines can run a pretty long ways, right? Can I vary the voltage per wire for different hardware requirements?

Would just depend on the panel.

You could find a 3V, couple amp power supply, and hard wire it to a terminal strip, and run your wires from that.

Really, it would be easier to just use devices that are meant to be hardwired. Unless you start drilling holes and using grommets, trying to attach power to a device that requires batteries is going to be a pain in the ass and ugly.

Ah, that's the only problem. The low-end stuff like X10 and INSTEON only have Wireless Motion Sensors available (appeals to the "easy" route based on a powerline plug-and-play system). Plus the software I'm using (Indigo) only supports the consumer-grade stuff.