Home defense-related discussion before class today..

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: SilverTorch
Wow, he's a bright one.

You should have jacked him right there, he wouldn't have a problem with that, hehehe j/k

Next time you talk to him, ask him if he is willing to take the locks off his doors, leave his car unlocked all the time, and carry his life savings in his pocket all the time.

He may already do that. Though I suspect he will dramatically change his tune if he ever manages to accumulate nice stuff in his life and have it violently taken away from him.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: OulOat
Fvck that, anyone unwanted comes into my house and they get introduced to Mr. Ruger.

Fixed

Or Mr. Kalashnikov.

 

[Bulk Beef]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: gururu
As far as a car is concerned, the law requires that you can do no bodily harm unless your life is threatened.

Which state is that? Be careful making a blanket statement like this that covers all states.

That is the case in Maryland, and I don't have a problem with that. If someone is stealing my car from my driveway, so be it. If someone tries to enter my home and I have reason to believe that they intend to do me harm, they're fair game.

 

[Kraeji]

If you break into my house I'm going for my USP 40 and putting two into your chest.

 

[jlee]

I actually asked a police officer what you can do if someone's stealing your stuff (I had both wheels/tires stolen off my bike at work, before I had a car)..he said you can take them to the ground as long as you're not injuring them once they're stopped..ie you can't tackle them and proceed to beat them half to death..but you can tackle them.

 

[NL5]

[/quote] If someone is stealing my car from my driveway, so be it. If someone tries to enter my home and I have reason to believe that they intend to do me harm, they're fair game.[/quote]


While I would still beat the crap out of someone trying to steal my car, I agree that deadly force is not warranted, however, if they enter my house, they give up ALL RIGHTS to life.

 

[Amused]

The question here is not one of property, but one of rights. When a citizen allows individuals to violate their rights without a fight, it becomes open season on the law abiding.

It has been shown time and time again that the police are NOT there to protect you, but to catch the criminal after the fact. Therefore protection of your life, family, and property lies with YOU.

Criminals have been interviewed and the overwhelming consensus is that they fear property owners FAR more than police.

Folks, the more we neuter ourselves, the more we encourage crime.

 

[silverpig]

Go take his sh!t!!!

 

[shiner]

That guy has a bright future ahead of him at Berkley.....or possibly France.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
That guy has a bright future ahead of him at Berkley.....or possibly France.

I foubt it, the thugs at either place would make him their Bitch (yes there are thugs in Berkley Virginia)

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I'm just curious as to the general opinion on this -- before class, the topic of home defense came up. This individual (a self-proclaimed "radical" leftist) said that a person has no right to kill another if they enter your home, and that if any avenue for escape exists, it must be taken. His standpoint was that if someone breaks into the house, I should jump through a window (or anything) to escape.

He also said that he doesn't believe in 'personal' property -- basically you have no right to injure someone if they're stealing your stuff. Specific example of a car -- he said it's just a f'ing car, and can be easily replaced.

The complication is that I live in a family of seven -- he seems to think that I should avoid confrontation completely and run..apparently abandoning my family. So..questions:

1) In any case, is it right to let someone take whatever they want, just to avoid confrontation and possible injury to one or both parties?

2) Is it considered 'proper' to run away from someone breaking into your home?

3) How does he think that someone would abandon their family to an intruder? My example..I'm still living at home (full time student), so if my dad's not home, it's basically my young brother (11yo), my mother, and three sisters..and I'll be damned if I'm going to run and leave them to chance.

?

I don't know about you, but if a guy has a gun and wants my wallet, he can have it. It's honestly not worth the risk of getting hurt to put up a fight, and secondly, it's simply a wallet with a few things in it that can be easily replaced. People that feel the need to defend themselves over a simple thing like a wallet or a car are either too attached to these objects or have little regard for their personal safety.

As far as injuring others in self-defense is concerned, there ARE laws which argue, generally, that use of excessive force is not a right and is punishable by law. Presumably, this might apply to defending one's own property as well. For example, if an unarmed guy is stealing your car and you shoot him dead, you could be held on a manslaughter charge or something like that - you get the idea. This part of ethics and law is a bit sketchy, however, because cases are not always so clear-cut.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: shinerburke
That guy has a bright future ahead of him at Berkley.....or possibly France.

I foubt it, the thugs at either place would make him their Bitch (yes there are thugs in Berkley Virginia)

Damn spelling....I meant Berkeley....you know....the place the put the left in left coast.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: Amused
The question here is not one of property, but one of rights. When a citizen allows individuals to violate their rights without a fight, it becomes open season on the law abiding.

It has been shown time and time again that the police are NOT there to protect you, but to catch the criminal after the fact. Therefore protection of your life, family, and property lies with YOU.

Criminals have been interviewed and the overwhelming consensus is that they fear property owners FAR more than police.

Folks, the more we neuter ourselves, the more we encourage crime.

I don't think that 'neutering ourselves' as you put it is directly responsible for rising rates of crime. That is a joke. Moreover, if the police are not in the business to protect you, why don't we get rid of SWAT, squad cars, and just turn the police department into a large office building with detectives and other unarmed investigators? Sheesh.

 

[Ilmater]

My car can just be replaced? Fvck that guy. If someone broke into my house and tried to steal stuff, I'd shoot his a$$ and he could worry about replacing any organs he would be missing.

BTW, I know that's illegal unless it's self-defense, but I'd make sure he had at least a bat or a knife or something. Or I'd just wait until he was in the kitchen and say that he had "access" to a knife.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: MadCowDiseaseI don't know about you, but if a guy has a gun and wants my wallet, he can have it. It's honestly not worth the risk of getting hurt to put up a fight, and secondly, it's simply a wallet with a few things in it that can be easily replaced. People that feel the need to defend themselves over a simple thing like a wallet or a car are either too attached to these objects or have little regard for their personal safety.

Or they hold their rights quite dear. It is not simply a wallet or a car you are losing. It is your right to be secure and your rights to private property the thief is taking. Not only that, but thieves are not stable, or very smart. I do NOT want to hand my life over the the whim of any thief who pulls a gun on me.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: shinerburke
That guy has a bright future ahead of him at Berkley.....or possibly France.

I foubt it, the thugs at either place would make him their Bitch (yes there are thugs in Berkley Virginia)

Damn spelling....I meant Berkeley....you know....the place the put the left in left coast.

There are thugs there too

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: Kraeji
If you break into my house I'm going for my USP 40 and putting two into your chest.

Sadly if you were in California those actions would get you charged with manslaughter.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: Amused
The question here is not one of property, but one of rights. When a citizen allows individuals to violate their rights without a fight, it becomes open season on the law abiding.

It has been shown time and time again that the police are NOT there to protect you, but to catch the criminal after the fact. Therefore protection of your life, family, and property lies with YOU.

Criminals have been interviewed and the overwhelming consensus is that they fear property owners FAR more than police.

Folks, the more we neuter ourselves, the more we encourage crime.

I don't think that 'neutering ourselves' as you put it is directly responsible for rising rates of crime. That is a joke. Moreover, if the police are not in the business to protect you, why don't we get rid of SWAT, squad cars, and just turn the police department into a large office building with detectives and other unarmed investigators? Sheesh.

Look at crime rates in England right now... you dont think it is at least a major contributing factor?

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: MadCowDiseaseI don't know about you, but if a guy has a gun and wants my wallet, he can have it. It's honestly not worth the risk of getting hurt to put up a fight, and secondly, it's simply a wallet with a few things in it that can be easily replaced. People that feel the need to defend themselves over a simple thing like a wallet or a car are either too attached to these objects or have little regard for their personal safety.

Or they hold their rights quite dear. It is not simply a wallet or a car you are losing. It is your right to be secure and your rights to private property the thief is taking. Not only that, but thieves are not stable, or very smart. I do NOT want to hand my life over the the whim of any thief who pulls a gun on me.

you are very foolish if you would not hand over your wallet to someone with a gun. as you said, thieves are not stable and you have a good chance of being shot. that is a very different situation from a home invasion where you have time to arm yourself and confront the bad guy on somewhat more equal terms.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Actually, he is correct. You would be committing a crime if you killed someone for trying to rob you could also be sued by his/her surviving relatives and they would win hands down.

Unless that person is armed, you can't claim self defense. You cannot legally kill someone just for stealing or trying to steal your stuff.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: Amused
The question here is not one of property, but one of rights. When a citizen allows individuals to violate their rights without a fight, it becomes open season on the law abiding.

It has been shown time and time again that the police are NOT there to protect you, but to catch the criminal after the fact. Therefore protection of your life, family, and property lies with YOU.

Criminals have been interviewed and the overwhelming consensus is that they fear property owners FAR more than police.

Folks, the more we neuter ourselves, the more we encourage crime.

I don't think that 'neutering ourselves' as you put it is directly responsible for rising rates of crime. That is a joke. Moreover, if the police are not in the business to protect you, why don't we get rid of SWAT, squad cars, and just turn the police department into a large office building with detectives and other unarmed investigators? Sheesh.

The police have NO obligation to protect you, as they cannot be everywhere at all times. Try suing the police next time you are a victim of a crime. OOPS! It's been tried. And the supreme court has found that the police have no obligation to protect. Individual citizens must protect themselves.

Also, as a previous poster has pointed out, the disarming of individual citizens has ALWAYS led to an increase in crime. Face it, criminals DO fear armed home owners far more than they fear the cops... and for good reason.

 

[dquan97]

He may be talking from the viewpoint of a single guy with no possessions besides a cat and a coffee table. I know that if someone breaks into my family's house, they are in for a treat

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: MadCowDiseaseI don't know about you, but if a guy has a gun and wants my wallet, he can have it. It's honestly not worth the risk of getting hurt to put up a fight, and secondly, it's simply a wallet with a few things in it that can be easily replaced. People that feel the need to defend themselves over a simple thing like a wallet or a car are either too attached to these objects or have little regard for their personal safety.

Or they hold their rights quite dear. It is not simply a wallet or a car you are losing. It is your right to be secure and your rights to private property the thief is taking. Not only that, but thieves are not stable, or very smart. I do NOT want to hand my life over the the whim of any thief who pulls a gun on me.

you are very foolish if you would not hand over your wallet to someone with a gun. as you said, thieves are not stable and you have a good chance of being shot. that is a very different situation from a home invasion where you have time to arm yourself and confront the bad guy on somewhat more equal terms.

I have faced this situation, though it wasn't my wallet they were after, it was the cash drawer of my store. It was also not long after one of my managers was murdered by an armed robber.

Sorry, but I choose NOT to be a compliant victim. I take threats on my life very seriously and if I can find an opening to take an armed robber down, I will.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused
Face it, criminals DO fear armed home owners far more than they fear the cops... and for good reason.

Police and law abiding citizens fear them too! If we can come up with a way to keep guns out of the hands of whackos and idiots without stepping all over the Second Ammendment I'd be for it

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
Face it, criminals DO fear armed home owners far more than they fear the cops... and for good reason.

Police and law abiding citizens fear them too!