I own a NEC fe2111sb CRT and a Sammy 215tw and have owned a couple of Dells. There is no contest with gaming as far as performance is concerned. I don't even know why we're discussing it. Sure LCDs are 'fine' but they are not 'good'.
I own a NEC fe2111sb CRT and a Sammy 215tw and have owned a couple of Dells. There is no contest with gaming as far as performance is concerned. I don't even know why we're discussing it. Sure LCDs are 'fine' but they are not 'good'.
exdeath: I probably agree with most of your post.
Smilin: Here are the full specs of the CRT monitor I came from:
CRT
? Size and deflection 19 inch / 46 cm ; 90° deflection angle
? Dot pitch / Grille pitch 0.25 mm
? Horizontal pitch 0.21 mm
? Tube type Shadow mask, Real Flat, high contrast, anti-glare, anti-static, anti
reflection, light transmission 44%
? Phosphor P22
? Recommended display area 14.0" x 10.4" / 355 x 265 mm
? Maximum display area 14.4" x 10.8" / 365 x 274 mm
SCANNING
? Horizontal scanning 30 - 97 KHz
? Vertical scanning 50 - 160 Hz
VIDEO
? Video dot rate 234 MHz
? Input impedance
- Video 75 ohm
- Sync 2.2 kOhm
? Input signal levels 0.7 Vpp
? Sync input signal
Separate sync
Composite sync
? Sync polarities Positive and negative
My LCD is 1280x1024. However I almost always run games in that res, and even when I run them in 1024x768 they look perfect.
JRW: Yes it is a shadow mask CRT. I did however use a NEC Trinitron at work and it didn't seem better in any obvious ways to me. I'm not saying it's not better, just that I didn't notice any ways that it was.
Zebo: Yes there is definitely blur with text in motion, I won't deny that, that can be seen simply by dragging a window around your desktop real fast. However, do I ever do that? No. And in games (shooters), regular objects/models/geometry etc. simply do NOT blur like small text does. In fact in a fast-paced shooter I see no blur of any kind.
Smilin: Here are the full specs of the CRT monitor I came from:
CRT
? Size and deflection 19 inch / 46 cm ; 90° deflection angle
? Dot pitch / Grille pitch 0.25 mm
? Horizontal pitch 0.21 mm
? Tube type Shadow mask, Real Flat, high contrast, anti-glare, anti-static, anti
reflection, light transmission 44%
? Phosphor P22
? Recommended display area 14.0" x 10.4" / 355 x 265 mm
? Maximum display area 14.4" x 10.8" / 365 x 274 mm
SCANNING
? Horizontal scanning 30 - 97 KHz
? Vertical scanning 50 - 160 Hz
VIDEO
? Video dot rate 234 MHz
? Input impedance
- Video 75 ohm
- Sync 2.2 kOhm
? Input signal levels 0.7 Vpp
? Sync input signal
Separate sync
Composite sync
? Sync polarities Positive and negative
My LCD is 1280x1024. However I almost always run games in that res, and even when I run them in 1024x768 they look perfect.
JRW: Yes it is a shadow mask CRT. I did however use a NEC Trinitron at work and it didn't seem better in any obvious ways to me. I'm not saying it's not better, just that I didn't notice any ways that it was.
Zebo: Yes there is definitely blur with text in motion, I won't deny that, that can be seen simply by dragging a window around your desktop real fast. However, do I ever do that? No. And in games (shooters), regular objects/models/geometry etc. simply do NOT blur like small text does. In fact in a fast-paced shooter I see no blur of any kind.
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
LCD's actually blurs with everything I just setup a situation where everyone can notice it easy. I hate it. Stops me from picking up the "right" items on the move. I must stop and read each items discription before continuing on to kill the next stack.
FPS shooters too. You could tell instantly in clone with a CRT. Everything would look more distored when on the move. (not to mention input lag)
Look CRT is for gaming LCD everything else. I don't game as much as I'd like to so I use LCD (plus I can't figure out how to put both on my desk conveinantly) But if I gamed like all the time no way would I use LCD.
JRW
Senior member
- Jun 29, 2005
- 569
- 0
- 76
"Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person is faced with a fact that is painful to accept rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. The subject may deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether (simple denial), admit the fact but deny its seriousness (minimisation) or admit both the fact and seriousness but deny responsibility (transference)."
Well to each his own, if you notice it in your games then you should stick with a CRT. I'm just saying, in the shooters I play, I don't notice it, period. That's not me being in denial, that's me really not seeing blur.
And besides, I'm a college student, so an LCD is REALLY convenient.
I had this CRT for close to 8months. Replaced it with a 2405FPW. Didn't look back or miss it once.
Anybody here actually ordered a refurbished from AccurateIT or Azatek? Can you get them to send something with a particular date/place of manufacture that you specify?
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
SED may never see light of day because of users. Very few gamers. And even fewer notice lag or blur at all (witness this thread). Combine that with billions invested in LCD fabs and they are so cheap now I don't see how SED can get ramped up. Look how many balk at a $700 20" compared to Cheap 20's they are buying... you think they are going to throw 2-3K down for a newly released SED? Also LCD continues to make improvments to the factor which bother most buyers, viewangles and contrast, as to make them a non-factor.
History is full of display techs that never saw the light of day in the marketplace... Image Light Amplifier... laser/CRT projectors...Sony?s SXRD...CRT withstood them all. LCD may do the same to SED ...OLED...FED...
For what it's worth, having my 21" IBM P275 right next to my 20WMGX2, I prefer my 20WMGX2 much more due to the versatility that it gives with better sharpness and more crisp images. Lets face it, I don't play games 24/7, if I did I wouldn't have an account here. After constantly switching between the two when playing my favorite games, the P275 just doesn't deliver the kind of image that I have with the NEC. Couple that with the NEC's widescreen--what can I say, I hate playing through boxes--and it's amazing colors, it's size (not exactly 80lbs. and 2'x2') and it's superior 2D detail, I'd choose a good LCD over a good CRT anyday.
That's just me though, and if I was more favorable to CRT's I would hate how the market is slowly denying me of that product. Just goes to show that all large corporations, Phillips, $ony, NEC, etc. at some point stop caring about what the consumer wants and only pay attention to their pockets.
================
Zebo, another way to really catch the "bluriness" that even the 20WMGX2 falls prey to in games is to play a night map of BF2: SF's and use the night vision. Once the goggles are on and everything is green, look at some of the white huts and buildings and move your view around. The white buildings really can stream across the screen. Of course, this also happens with my P275 and even it ghosts. In fact, with the P275 I can move my mouse around on a perfectly black screen and see a noticable stream behind it. On my NEC, there isn't a stream but the cursor itself gets blury.
That's just me though, and if I was more favorable to CRT's I would hate how the market is slowly denying me of that product. Just goes to show that all large corporations, Phillips, $ony, NEC, etc. at some point stop caring about what the consumer wants and only pay attention to their pockets.
================
Zebo, another way to really catch the "bluriness" that even the 20WMGX2 falls prey to in games is to play a night map of BF2: SF's and use the night vision. Once the goggles are on and everything is green, look at some of the white huts and buildings and move your view around. The white buildings really can stream across the screen. Of course, this also happens with my P275 and even it ghosts. In fact, with the P275 I can move my mouse around on a perfectly black screen and see a noticable stream behind it. On my NEC, there isn't a stream but the cursor itself gets blury.
Due to VGA inputs, VGA cables and so on. The VGA cables on the current 17" CRT are about half the diameter of the VGA cables on the 17" displays of 4 years ago.
Anyway, those new 6-bit panels create in some cases "color banding" (in images with slight gradients of colors). Much more visible than the difference in contrast/colors in comparison with the CRT displays
Some 5 years ago, you would have paid $500+ for a 19" CRT, with $300 for a 17". The 21" and bigger were hitting the $1000 mark.
Now, the CRT war prices have brought quality and price down to incredible levels. I remember when the 15" flat (flatter than the rounded 14") screen CRT would sell for more than $200 (that was 1999 timeframe, and 1999 dollars).
6.5 year ago for my Philips 109P20, $1000AU ($500US), most other more consumer oriented 19" monitors were around $850AU ($425US) at the time.
I paid $720AU recently for my other 19" monitor (not half the monitor the Philips is, sadly, but still better than LCD for me).
Yes, I can remember when 15" monitors were ridiculously expensive too - I came from an Amiga background and wanted a monitor that could sync to AGA's new doublescan modes (true mulitsync had been and mostly gone by that time for PC's), you damn near needed to steal the crown jewels to get a monitor capable of doing the job. Went with a refurbished Eizo.
I paid $720AU recently for my other 19" monitor (not half the monitor the Philips is, sadly, but still better than LCD for me).
Yes, I can remember when 15" monitors were ridiculously expensive too - I came from an Amiga background and wanted a monitor that could sync to AGA's new doublescan modes (true mulitsync had been and mostly gone by that time for PC's), you damn near needed to steal the crown jewels to get a monitor capable of doing the job. Went with a refurbished Eizo.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Yeah I'm going to cry when my F500R finally gives out. It's like 8 years old but it's still running as good as the day I bought it. I've only ever run it at 15% brightness/contrast and have never had to adjust it. Color vibrance and black depth are beyond words and untouchable by LCD. And as I've said before, it has the 'look and feel' that people like in today's LCDs, that being a sharp, perfectly square distortion free image. I don't really have a reason to trade it in except for size/weight. I do prefer the 3007WFP for coding and general Windows use though just for the real estate and resolution.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=F500R&page=1
Just hit the first google link for 'F500R' and found this. It's a nice shot of the 'sharp, square, distortion free, and stable image' that the F500R is capable of producing. No bowing, no warping at the top/bottom, and with a few minutes of tweaking, uniform error free convergence corner to corner; ie: all the primary traits LCD users have come to expect on even the cheapest LCD. Look at the borders of the image compared to the border of the bezel. Yeah thats the kind of image I've had long before you guys could buy LCDs
*does the 'oh yeah' dance*
Plus typical high contrast of CRTs, no blur, etc. The only thing LCD users have on me is weight/size
PS: I don't dislike LCDs, I use a 3007WFP for my Windows/browsing/coding duty and I've got dual 19" LCDs at work. Just pointing out the difference between GOOD CRTs and AVERAGE CRTs.
Just hit the first google link for 'F500R' and found this. It's a nice shot of the 'sharp, square, distortion free, and stable image' that the F500R is capable of producing. No bowing, no warping at the top/bottom, and with a few minutes of tweaking, uniform error free convergence corner to corner; ie: all the primary traits LCD users have come to expect on even the cheapest LCD. Look at the borders of the image compared to the border of the bezel. Yeah thats the kind of image I've had long before you guys could buy LCDs
*does the 'oh yeah' dance*
Plus typical high contrast of CRTs, no blur, etc. The only thing LCD users have on me is weight/size
PS: I don't dislike LCDs, I use a 3007WFP for my Windows/browsing/coding duty and I've got dual 19" LCDs at work. Just pointing out the difference between GOOD CRTs and AVERAGE CRTs.
QueBert
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2002
- 22,943
- 1,138
- 126
Originally posted by: exdeath
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=F500R&page=1
Just hit the first google link for 'F500R' and found this. It's a nice shot of the 'sharp, square, distortion free, and stable image' that the F500R is capable of producing. No bowing, no warping at the top/bottom, and with a few minutes of tweaking, uniform error free convergence corner to corner; ie: all the primary traits LCD users have come to expect on even the cheapest LCD. Look at the borders of the image compared to the border of the bezel. Yeah thats the kind of image I've had long before you guys could buy LCDs
*does the 'oh yeah' dance*
Plus typical high contrast of CRTs, no blur, etc. The only thing LCD users have on me is weight/size
PS: I don't dislike LCDs, I use a 3007WFP for my Windows/browsing/coding duty and I've got dual 19" LCDs at work. Just pointing out the difference between GOOD CRTs and AVERAGE CRTs.
on the weight/size thing, I don't agree! I like big things, I got a big case, a big ass heatsink, a big keyboard, big mouse. LCD remind me of a toy. When I get upset playing CS:S with some kiddie cheating, I can *BAP!* my monitor on the side out of frustration with nothing bad happening. I wanna see an LCD punk do that
JRW
Senior member
- Jun 29, 2005
- 569
- 0
- 76
Originally posted by: QueBert
on the weight/size thing, I don't agree! I like big things, I got a big case, a big ass heatsink, a big keyboard, big mouse. LCD remind me of a toy. When I get upset playing CS:S with some kiddie cheating, I can *BAP!* my monitor on the side out of frustration with nothing bad happening. I wanna see an LCD punk do that
True, Im more concerned with LCD's 'fragile' screen surface , a CRT's glass screen can take a wallop without any worry, my little nephew has tested this theory more than a few times
Yep, my Philips 109B 19" flat was $400 in 2001. Good CRTs were not cheap. And I got that monitor coming from a 15" generic thing. God was it beautiful the first time I hooked it up. Hell, still is, it's my dad's monitor now.
You need that one comic from Dilbert where Alice is like, "look, see, like this... hover... HOVER..!!!"
That drives me nuts too.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 21K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter