purbeast0
No Lifer
Well yeah what were you thinking, people without money would buy houses over a million dollars?
And what is the point of making more money if you aren't going to spend it?
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Holy hell, people live above their means so much... jesus
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And what is the point of making more money if you aren't going to spend it?
While people are right that there might be more going on, given the information available about lack of savings\retirement\excess income its more likely that they are living closer to pay check to paycheck or not really planning for retirement than having a secondary source for all their money.
I think a lot of people tend to over estimate how much redoing their house adds value. We've been doing a lot of work with real estate agents over the last 2 years so we get to hear all arguments they get into with home owners who think their house should be worth much more on the market because they spend $X redoing this room or that room. It works out sometimes but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
As for experiences there is a lot of research out there that shows that experiences have a more notable impact on people's lives compared to things due to our ability to adapt to new norms (So called Hedonistic adaptation\treadmill). The transient nature of experiences (which are defined as single or limited repeat events) prevents any chance at adaptation, increasing the sum total of impact over time (If you repeat an experience enough time it is no longer defined as an experience and will likely result in an adaptation to the new norm). There was some pretty good research released in 2003 that showed people generally reverting to their baseline after marriage, divorce, birth of child etc. Given that even after rather significant life changing events people tend to revert its unlikely that a vacuum or really most things will have any real impact on your satisfaction in life (This is for things that are above and beyond meeting basic needs)
I think a lot of people tend to over estimate how much redoing their house adds value. We've been doing a lot of work with real estate agents over the last 2 years so we get to hear all arguments they get into with home owners who think their house should be worth much more on the market because they spend $X redoing this room or that room. It works out sometimes but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
As for experiences there is a lot of research out there that shows that experiences have a more notable impact on people's lives compared to things due to our ability to adapt to new norms (So called Hedonistic adaptation\treadmill). The transient nature of experiences (which are defined as single or limited repeat events) prevents any chance at adaptation, increasing the sum total of impact over time (If you repeat an experience enough time it is no longer defined as an experience and will likely result in an adaptation to the new norm). There was some pretty good research released in 2003 that showed people generally reverting to their baseline after marriage, divorce, birth of child etc. Given that even after rather significant life changing events people tend to revert its unlikely that a vacuum or really most things will have any real impact on your satisfaction in life (This is for things that are above and beyond meeting basic needs)
brianmanahan
Lifer
retiring early. that's the only reason i work hard to earn more money, so once i hit a couple M i can quit working a 9-5. well, more like 9-9 lately.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
Lots of ways of making money outside of salary. Bonuses and stock/optoins are just a couple. Working for start-ups/small companies have allowed me to make a ton of money when my company went public and when stock awards and options at $1.50/share are now worth $80/share.
Or possibly they invested some money in the market and made a lot of money from it. I'm sure people laughed at me when I bought FB shares at $45 and now it's $127. Who's laughing now?
And living in hot real estate areas can allow you to buy that $400k house and sell it for $600k in several years.
Or possibly they invested some money in the market and made a lot of money from it. I'm sure people laughed at me when I bought FB shares at $45 and now it's $127. Who's laughing now?
And living in hot real estate areas can allow you to buy that $400k house and sell it for $600k in several years.
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It always surprises me how many people complain about their jobs but don't do anything to get out of the rat race. I've seen it even more frequently in our new neighborhood. Lots of newer 3000+ sq ft homes for 4 people, 2 BMW\Lexus SUVs, Furniture delivery tucks, Renno contractors etc but when talking to people they complain about needing to work forever, needing to stretch money and not being able to retire early etc. Like its somehow impossible to not buy a 3000 sqft house or get some sort of non-luxury vehicle to drive around.
I had a conversation with one neighbor, who fits all the above, about my 'new' car. He asked why I didn't get something nicer than a used Camry to replace my 11 year old civic. I told him that it was enough of a step up for me and that getting it made it easy to keep my plans to retire early on track. He went on about how he'd never get to retire early but then less than a few weeks later I came home and saw a furniture company known for pretty expensive furniture delivering a new furniture set. If thats how you want to live your life thats fine by me (as long as there aren't enough of you to fuck things up for everyone) but don't complain about the effects of your actions.
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Hah, I'd be interested to watch that. Yeah, initially I thought I was over-thinking cleaning, but there's a good saying by Dave Ramsey that goes something like "live like no one else, you can live like no one else." Like I said, I loathe doing lots of cleaning, it's so much work, my family always ends up frustrated, and at the end of the day, it's just going to get dirty again. Much better imo to break it down into small chunks so you're only having to deal with 5 or 10 minutes worth of work rather than hours upon hours.
I've mentioned in another thread I do the same with filling up the cars with gas. Mine gets topped off Mondays & Thursdays & I leave a few minutes early to top off my wife's car on Tuesdays & Fridays. It's an extra ten minutes out of my day to prevent getting in a bind when I need to go somewhere because the fuel tank level is never an issue. It's a small, simple lifehack, but it's just one more thing I don't ever have to think about. Plus it frees up more time for neffing 😉
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
It wasn't the original Cheaper by the Dozen, was it?
Carson Dyle
Diamond Member
Your wife can't pump her own gas?
Just out of curiosity, how often would you normally fill the tank if you filled it and then ran it to near empty, like many/most people do?
Because "when you need to go somewhere" (and, specifically that somewhere requires more fuel than you'd have in the tank) that five minutes is going to make a difference?
It's OCD, not a "life hack".
purbeast0
No Lifer
Yes, but then what are you going to do with the money? You are going to spend it.
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
I try to keep the tank at least half full, especially in winter. There's a couple times where I kinda missed paying attention and did not notice I was red lined. That is scary as hell when it happens. Apparently you still have a half decent amount left at that point but I sure as hell don't want to test that theory lol. I've had it where the actual low fuel indicator comes on that's when you know you're in trouble unless you're literally on the way to the gas station. Gas tends to get used up fast in winter from having to idle the car so much. Electric cars and charging stations at parking lots can't happen faster. I hate burning so much gas and contributing to global warming, but I guess it's a drop in the bucket compared to all the idling cars on the 401 at rush hour.
Imp
Lifer
Got damn. I'm going to guess that move wasn't 100% voluntary and unless they had a non-recourse loan, they may still be paying for it. IIRC, housing market didn't bottom until 2011 or 2012. And 2007 was just on the edge of the plateau.
Carson Dyle
Diamond Member
Hurt? Not unless they took a bath in selling the old home.
They moved to a more affordable, more correctly sized home, for a fraction of the cost. Sounds like a smart move to me. You can't undo your dumb decisions, but you can realize your mistakes and make better ones in the future.
brianmanahan
Lifer
ah i see what you mean. yeah i'll probably spend about %3 a year. if returns are better than that i might spend more, or i might just leave a bunch for my nieces and nephews.
Mai72
Lifer
This is where you need to be disciplined.
The reason you want to to save money is so you can take advantage when their is a crash and a major recession happens. You want to be in a position to take advantage of other people's misery. When they are hurting, scared and are withdrawing from the market that's when you want cash on hand. This is exactly what the big players do like Warren Buffet. Much of his money is made on the back of recessions.
This is why I'm not big on purchasing homes. Especially in this market. How can you make a big play when most of your income is being consumed by your new home? I'd hold off on buying stocks as well. But, it takes a lot of discipline. The best thing to do now is to just wait like a hunter stalking his prey. Wait until we go into a recession when people are hurting. That's when you strike. It's all cylical anyway.
dave_the_nerd
Lifer
That gets you what? A high score? You're only working for your heirs.
Mai72
Lifer
No doubt. The wealthy own us. I'm just trying to play smart because I've been s financial dummy for so long. My parents taught me crap about finances and how the economy works. When my mom passed away we found that she had a very big spending habit. My dad was over $250k in debt. He had to walk away from his home, he sold his business and other valuables.
My parents were constantly stressed about money. They bought crap they couldn't afford. Multiple credit cards, new foreign cars and a big home. It put this pressure on their lives. My mom would wake up in the middle of the night stressed about how she was going to pay the mortgage. Zero talk about how they were going to pay for their items. Just spend spend and then spend some more.
I told myself that I wasn't going to live like that. God help me. I was going to at least attempt to put money away, live below my means, find ways to generate more money, learn to invest and so on. We are the choices we make in life.
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Those are all good points. Like I said, it's a bit of overthinking for seemingly insignificant things, but not without good reason. For example, with the gas situation, it's not that she can't, but she typically drives to empty; that's reality for me. So then we have to go some place & the car is empty. This creates two potential problems:
1. If we're running tight on time to an appointment, this makes us late, which is annoying. This has happened.
2. If there's an emergency & I need to go, it creates an additional headache. This has also happened.
How often do those situations occur? Not daily. Not even that often. Like I said, it's a small convenience thing. It's not some huge, life-changing activity - just a nice little perk. I do the same thing with the rest of the car maintenance...first & second Saturdays of the month, each car gets an oil change & tire rotation as needed, refill on the windshield wiper fluid & a new (or cleaned) air filter if needed, plus a weekly vacuum, trash removal, and car wash, that sort of stuff. It's not that it's a big deal to do it as-needed, but scheduling in preventative maintenance just makes things more convenient because then you're controlling the schedule, instead of the schedule controlling you.
And by 'control', I don't mean OCD control, either - as mentioned, if you have somewhere you need to be & you're already cutting it close & have to stop off for gas, that takes away from you being on-time, so now you're being controlled by something that you could have taken care of. Versus taking a more responsible approach to managing the fuel levels so you don't have to worry about it. And at least here in CT, everything is kind of spread out, so it's a hassle getting gas because then I have to hop off the highway & drive through town. But again, looking at the big picture, it's a small thing. I like convenience. That's all.
You mentioned running it to empty like most people do...I realized I don't have to live like most people do. Not in a snobbish way, but there's no requirement to do the bare minimum to get by. An eye-opening article for me was the 2014 Fast Company article on Obama here:
https://www.fastcompany.com/3026265...suit-obamas-presidential-productivity-secrets
He talks about decision fatigue & how he only owns two colors of suits (gray & blue) to reduce the number of decisions he has to make each day. TMI & you can stop reading at this point if you're not into efficiency tricks, but as I'm not into fashion & don't require a huge amount of fancy clothes, I thought about that, looked at the clothes piled up everywhere, and reduced my usable wardrobe to a week plus a few extra days (wash laundry once a week, plus have a few spares if my schedule goes off a bit). So I keep maybe 10 pairs of clothes. I threw laundry on the schedule & some alarm reminders for the washer & dryer on my Timer+ iPhone app. Taking that further, I got a year's supply of laundry stuff (detergent pellets, fabric softener, dryer sheets, etc.) & refill my supply every 6 months (yay Amazon Pantry), which is also on my house maintenance calendar. Borderline prepper maybe, but more out of convenience & laziness than anything...my wardrobe isn't overwhelming, my laundry always gets done, and I never run out of laundry supplies. Goals achieved!
It's not that hard to do, either...I am not a rigidly-scheduled person, quite the opposite actually, but I run some context-based routine scripts based on time of day or location. So like when I get home from work, one of the first things I do is throw in a load of laundry & set my iPhone timer for an hour to remind me to swap it. Mondays are whites, Tuesdays are darks, Wednesdays are towels, Thursdays are bedding, etc. Don't have to think about it, don't have to run into situations where I have no clean clothes or towels or whatever. Again, not a big, life-changing system, but pulling things back into the bigger picture, my clothes are always washed, my cars are always maintained, my house is always clean, and I never have to put in any effort into spending hours cleaning stuff up or running into stupid situations that I should have taken care of already. Home, cars, finances, work, school, you can apply it to pretty much anything you do on a regular basis. The rest of my time is free game to do with as I please. Which (un)fortunately usually means neffing on these forums 😀
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Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
That's the trick right there. Pretty much everyone who gets a raise or something experiences lifestyle creep. It's super difficult to get random income like an inheritance or a pay raise or whatever without either wasting the money or bumping up your lifestyle to a better car, bigger house, etc. Not many people set a line in the sand about how they want to live. I work with a dude who makes $120k a year & is constantly broke. Like can't even afford to go out to lunch with us once or twice a month. Lives in a huge house, drives a brand-new Lexus SUV, buys a lot of toys, and is always complaining about how he needs a raise. rollseyes.jpg
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
Wow oil change every month? Is it bad that I only get mine done like once a year? I usually go by the mileage. They put a sticker in the windshield so I just go by that, or roughly. I think it's like every 3,000km or something. I forget.
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
No, I check for an oil change every month. For example, on the first Saturday of the month, I do maintenance on my Jeep. If it needs an oil change & tire rotation, I take it in. If not, then my next check is the next month, rather than just when I remember to check the oil change sticker on my windshield or when the idiot light comes out. I also do the washer fluid, clean or replace the air filter, etc. Weekly on weekends, a car wash & vacuum. Stuff like that. Basically just automating the maintenance through scheduling. Clean house, well-maintained cars, washed laundry, etc. without having to really think about it ever.
Surprisingly, food is still the most difficult. Right now, I'm into IIFYM, but I've found I also prefer eating a variety of food rather than doing meal prep, so I'm doing what I call "gourmet" small-batch meal prep right now (not really gourmet food, just not Tupperwares full of plain chicken & broccoli, hahaha). Meal planning, shopping, cooking, and cleanup requires an awful lot of planning, thinking, and effort.
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
Oh yeah makes sense. Probably something I should be doing more often lol.
Dr. Detroit
Diamond Member
Enjoy working til 65 or 70 with that mentality
A few of us will be retired by age 45 with over $2.5M saved. I'd rather eat tacos de canasta with great friends than have another $300/plate meal with coworkers I despise. I'd rather wear Levi's and Converse than AG and Ferragamo.
If it wasn't for the Feds dicking us over on the ACA and interest rates I'm sure a lot more people would be living off 5% CD's and telling the man to Go Fuck Themselves!
Mai72
Lifer
I also don't get this mentality that we must retire early because our jobs suck. Why is this? I feel privileged that I can go to work everyday. I like what I do. It's crazy that most people don't like their job.
Work keeps me alive. I've had months off from work and grew tired, bored, and out of shape. It's great in the beginning but the idea of not being productive doesn't resonate with me. I'd rather be moving daily. Engaged.
soulcougher73
Lifer
Doesn't sound that far fetched to me to be honest. Make way more than we do and we could probably afford that if had to me.
Edit: missed the nanny part. That would be rough.
Edit: missed the nanny part. That would be rough.
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