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Holy F! Hillary being interviewed by Howard Stern

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,467
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I just don’t agree Bernie “fought hard”
Opinion stuff just like Hillary should never say anything negative about Bernie.
We'll just disagree then that's really all that's left do say I guess. As Hillary is free to say whatever negative thing she wants to say about Bernie others are free to react negatively to that....


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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
4,609
3,819
136
In that interview...From what I can tell, Hillary said Bernie's actions in 2016 hurt her, not that his actions, and his actions alone, cost her the election. Just more strange, inexplicable hatred of Hillary. Much of the time, she's just saying things that are - well, factually correct. Funny that her detractors are the ones who imagine her as having power still.

Obviously many other factors cost her the election. I blame the American voter primarily. In the end, she was a damaged candidate who ran a poor campaign. I think one of the reason she lost was because she never let the public have these Howard Stern moments. She's was too cautious, wooden and academic. She assumed the public would be judicious enough to choose substance over buffoonery. That said, I haven't been stalked by frothing right wing nutjobs for 3 decades. So I kinda get why she's wired that way.

Also...Did I wind up in a parallel universe or something? In my timeline, Sanders gave a ringing endorsement of Clinton in a major speech at the convention. As for the timing of his endorsement of her, how does that compare to the timing of her endorsement of Obama in 2008? As I recall, he was never interested in attacking her over bullshit reasons - his ""I'm sick and tired of hearing about her damn emails" shows this. His "bros" hurt her more by either throwing their votes away or not voting at all. The people who failed to vote for her helped Trump win. Clinton didn’t make them do that.

My problems with Sanders - Sanders did not concede when it became apparent he couldn't win. He pushed conspiracy theory bullshit about the elections being rigged, echoing the exact same rhetoric as his opponent.

Is Bernie Sanders a Democrat or an Independent? If he's an Independent, why should Democrats entertain the idea of him getting their nomination? If he's a Democrat, why does he insist on campaigning for Senate as an Independent?

Sadly, I don't see any Democrat who I'm really enthused about this year. But no matter which of them - Sanders, Biden, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg or one of the others - they will have my full support and I will vote for them on Election Day. It's either a Democrat - no matter who it is - or 4 more fucking years of Trump.
 
Feb 4, 2009
27,938
8,400
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In that interview...From what I can tell, Hillary said Bernie's actions in 2016 hurt her, not that his actions, and his actions alone, cost her the election. Just more strange, inexplicable hatred of Hillary. Much of the time, she's just saying things that are - well, factually correct. Funny that her detractors are the ones who imagine her as having power still.

Obviously many other factors cost her the election. I blame the American voter primarily. In the end, she was a damaged candidate who ran a poor campaign. I think one of the reason she lost was because she never let the public have these Howard Stern moments. She's was too cautious, wooden and academic. She assumed the public would be judicious enough to choose substance over buffoonery. That said, I haven't been stalked by frothing right wing nutjobs for 3 decades. So I kinda get why she's wired that way.

Also...Did I wind up in a parallel universe or something? In my timeline, Sanders gave a ringing endorsement of Clinton in a major speech at the convention. As for the timing of his endorsement of her, how does that compare to the timing of her endorsement of Obama in 2008? As I recall, he was never interested in attacking her over bullshit reasons - his ""I'm sick and tired of hearing about her damn emails" shows this. His "bros" hurt her more by either throwing their votes away or not voting at all. The people who failed to vote for her helped Trump win. Clinton didn’t make them do that.

My problems with Sanders - Sanders did not concede when it became apparent he couldn't win. He pushed conspiracy theory bullshit about the elections being rigged, echoing the exact same rhetoric as his opponent.

Is Bernie Sanders a Democrat or an Independent? If he's an Independent, why should Democrats entertain the idea of him getting their nomination? If he's a Democrat, why does he insist on campaigning for Senate as an Independent?

Sadly, I don't see any Democrat who I'm really enthused about this year. But no matter which of them - Sanders, Biden, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg or one of the others - they will have my full support and I will vote for them on Election Day. It's either a Democrat - no matter who it is - or 4 more fucking years of Trump.
Pretty much this. Good summary.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,674
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I just don’t agree Bernie “fought hard”
Opinion stuff just like Hillary should never say anything negative about Bernie.
What is he supposed to do? Put a gun to his supporter's heads and tell them you better vote for her?

The most he can do is endorse her and tell his fans to vote for her. I guess he could have tried begging his voters on his knees, but that still doesn't mean people are going to do it.
 
Feb 4, 2009
27,938
8,400
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What is he supposed to do? Put a gun to his supporter's heads and tell them you better vote for her?

The most he can do is endorse her and tell his fans to vote for her. I guess he could have tried begging his voters on his knees, but that still doesn't mean people are going to do it.
and many didn’t, which is the point. Bernie didn’t do so well at achieving the goal. Not voting is equal to voting for the current turd.
Some goals are difficult to obtain but failing to meet a goal is failing to meet a goal.
Also my above comment was directed at the poster claiming Bernie campaigned for Hillary harder than Hillary did for herself. That is a silly claim to make.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,073
6,061
136
What is he supposed to do? Put a gun to his supporter's heads and tell them you better vote for her?

The most he can do is endorse her and tell his fans to vote for her. I guess he could have tried begging his voters on his knees, but that still doesn't mean people are going to do it.
What he did was perpetuate the myth that she rigged the primaries against him, which turned a lot of voters off. Of the two candidates, the only one who technically cheated was him.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,268
635
126
What he did was perpetuate the myth that she rigged the primaries against him [...]. Of the two candidates, the only one who technically cheated was him.

, which turned a lot of voters off.
natesilver: At the same time, like 80 percent of Sanders voters wound up voting for Clinton — which isn’t perfect but is fairly typical for a primary opponent.

Maybe the rest would have came hadn't she slapped the progressives in the face by picking Tim Kaine.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,467
422
126
Here are some facts about Bernie' primary supporters...

78% of the 13.2 million people who chose Bernie in the primaries voted for HRC in the general, giving her 10.3 million votes. She won the popular vote by roughly 2.9 million votes. Without those Berner votes, she wouldn't even have won the popular vote
the above is a twitter response to a thread about the issue... There is more but I'll leave the rest for the end of this post....

google result of Democratic Primary votes for 2016

but it seems to hold when looking at polling from Pew as reported by the Guardian
Eighty-five percent of Sanders supporters intend to vote for Clinton

Eighty-five percent of Bernie Sanders supporters said they intended to vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election, according to a survey released last week by Pew Research Center.
Now according to a study cited by wikipedia

9% of Obama voters voted for Trump.
A study by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group found that 9.2% of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016.[1] According to the American National Election Study, 13% of Trump voters had voted for Obama in 2012
Now let's just hypothesize that about 50 percent of those Obama Trump voters supported Bernie in 2016 so about 4.6% of those voters supported Hillary in the 2016 primary hypothetically. Take that 4.6% and plug it into the popular votes that Obama got in 2008 and 2012 averaged out (because the article didn't specify Obama voters from 2008 or 2012 or some derivation of bother numbers that I saw).

2008 votes 69,498,516 2012 votes 65,915,795 that Obama won.

about 66770715.5 average votes won by Obama over 2 elections of which 4.6% are voters who hypothetically voted for Obama then voted for Trump that Hillary could have won.

3071453 voters rounded up... now lets just suppose that I am still overshooting the Obama - Trump voters that Hillary could have held... so we cut it by a over a third...

say 700k voters. Imagine if Hillary picked up those 700k voters maybe that would have been enough to overcome the gap that Hillary lost the rust belt states to Trump?

States Won by thin margins 2016 (02).jpg





Wisconsin Trump won by 22748 votes

Michigan Trump by 10704

Pennsylvannia by 44302

Florida by 112911


total of the popular difference in the above four states....
about 191665 votes... far less than the hypothetical 700 thousand derived from the calculating the 9.2% of Obama voters who somehow were conned into voting for Trump in 2016...

based on the above hypothetical number compared to the fairly thin numbers Hillary lost swing states by (and thus the electoral college) I would say that Peter Baker was right in reporting what some have said about Hillary Clinton's campaign...

I looked up and calculated the numbers that appear after the reference to Obama - Trump voters in the order in which they appear in this post by the way....



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Nov 25, 2013
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When God-Princess Ivanka ascends the 1000 Year Throne will you guys still be arguing about how Bernie was/was not cheated and Clinton was/was not the devil?
 
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