Holder claims "Fast and Furious" doesn't refer to Fast and Furious

[RampantAndroid]

To be honest, I've never quite understood that interpretation of the operation. It certainly seems like FUBAR deal to me...but I don't get the anti-2nd amendment angle Republicans jumped on with both feet. This is an honest question, btw 😉

IIRC, it was documented that the ATF indicated that negative press from F&F could be directed towards further the public perception of guns as being negative (meaning people would support MORE gun control.) Given that, there's no leap needed to see F&F as being a possible program to undermine the 2nd amendment.

 

[PokerGuy]

With holder about to get charged with contempt of congress, the noose is starting to tighten. Pretty soon obummer will see him as a political liability in an election year and throw him under the bus the way he has other pals who turn out to be politically inconvenient.

 

[QuantumPion]

What do you think the democrats would say if they found e-mails by Bush ordering the sale of WMD's to Iraq just so we could claim they had WMD's and invade them. And during the investigation, John Ashcroft outright lied to congress and refused to provide evidence ordered by the court. They would be going fucking ape shit up the walls.

 

[werepossum]

What do you think the democrats would say if they found e-mails by Bush ordering the sale of WMD's to Iraq just so we could claim they had WMD's and invade them. And during the investigation, John Ashcroft outright lied to congress and refused to provide evidence ordered by the court. They would be going fucking ape shit up the walls.

This is true.

 

[cybrsage]

This is all just because Holder is black, isn't it? (Thought I would throw the race card out there - someone has to do it, right?)

 

[TechBoyJK]

Holder deserves to be shot.



Do not post to advocate or condone violence in these forums.

Administrator Idontcare

I think he was talking about a photo shoot. 😛

 

[TechBoyJK]

With holder about to get charged with contempt of congress, the noose is starting to tighten. Pretty soon obummer will see him as a political liability in an election year and throw him under the bus the way he has other pals who turn out to be politically inconvenient.

Obama should throw him under the bus. I'm not a big Obama fan, but maybe even he feels like an idiot for putting this guy in office. If he does cast Holder to the side, I won't blame him.

If he doesn't??? wtf O!

 

[xBiffx]

Obama should throw him under the bus. I'm not a big Obama fan, but maybe even he feels like an idiot for putting this guy in office. If he does cast Holder to the side, I won't blame him.

If he doesn't??? wtf O!

If only that were true. Case in point, Biden. Obama has surrounded himself with complete idiots so that he can look like the genius in the pack. Only this idiot blew up in his face much more than the gaffe riddled Biden ever could. This time, it was more than stupid words and there is a body count to show for it.

 

[werepossum]

I think he was talking about a photo shoot. 😛

😀 +1

Obama should throw him under the bus. I'm not a big Obama fan, but maybe even he feels like an idiot for putting this guy in office. If he does cast Holder to the side, I won't blame him.

If he doesn't??? wtf O!

Politicians in general value loyalty much more than intelligence, honesty or competence. If Holder gets the boot it will be because he is a political liability, not because he lacks honesty or competence (which obviously he does.)

If only that were true. Case in point, Biden. Obama has surrounded himself with complete idiots so that he can look like the genius in the pack. Only this idiot blew up in his face much more than the gaffe riddled Biden ever could. This time, it was more than stupid words and there is a body count to show for it.

If I had to bet, I'd still bet that Obama and Holder were ignorant of this program when it began and then, like Nixon, became embroiled in the cover-up. Although obviously, the longer and more blatantly Holder lies and provides cover, the less likely this explanation seems.

 

[xBiffx]

If I had to bet, I'd still bet that Obama and Holder were ignorant of this program when it began and then, like Nixon, became embroiled in the cover-up. Although obviously, the longer and more blatantly Holder lies and provides cover, the less likely this explanation seems.

Obama I could see but Holder had to know. I can't believe this type of operation is able to commence without the most senior members being involved. This still does not excuse Obama either. He is responsible for the actions of everyone under his command, especially direct appointees. Nothing less is expected from the generals in our armed forces so the same should apply to their commander in chief.

 

[werepossum]

Obama I could see but Holder had to know. I can't believe this type of operation is able to commence without the most senior members being involved. This still does not excuse Obama either. He is responsible for the actions of everyone under his command, especially direct appointees. Nothing less is expected from the generals in our armed forces so the same should apply to their commander in chief.

Maybe, but Justice comprises maybe three dozen named Offices and Agencies with maybe 100,000 employees. At any given time, there might well be hundreds of named programs being operated under the auspices of Justice. Couple that with the innate secrecy common to the BATFE and the fact that a controversial program like this will always have people ready to blow the whistle on it, and it's likely that the official description (it's long name if you will) of this program would intentionally be quite innocuous, something like "tracking guns moving from the USA to drug cartels in Mexico" rather than "facilitating guns moving from the USA to drug cartels in Mexico to use the resultant deaths for political purposes."

Given their respective anti-gun proclivities it's certainly possible that Holder and even Obama were in on this at the beginning, even the mind(s) behind it, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think this is necessarily so. Obama in particular has been careful to not be overtly anti-gun during his first term. (Anyone's guess if this is honoring the recognition of the public's position on the Second Amendment or merely postponing such actions to the point that it can't damage him, accepting the damage to the Democrat Party for the "greater good".) This operation seems to be to be too risky for Obama (and therefore for Holder) during his first term. On the other hand, the career leadership of the BATFE are government employees; screw up, move up. The career leadership of the BATFE faced very little if any risk for such an operation.

The really scary thing, far beyond who authored this program or who knew what when, is that without a handful of patriotic Americans who probably committed career suicide bringing this to light, this program would have gone unnoticed and probably would have had exactly the intended effect.

 

[davmat787]

IIRC, it was documented that the ATF indicated that negative press from F&F could be directed towards further the public perception of guns as being negative (meaning people would support MORE gun control.) Given that, there's no leap needed to see F&F as being a possible program to undermine the 2nd amendment.

I remember something along those lines as well, will try and find a source as that makes F&F even dirtier. I hope Obama has the testicular fortitude to replace Holder, after the elections would be the usual time for this sort of thing IIRC.

Letting go of Holder would open up another position for a Goldman-Sachs guy, so it is a win-win. 🙄

 

[spidey07]

I hope Obama has the testicular fortitude to replace Holder, after the elections would be the usual time for this sort of thing IIRC.

Letting go of Holder would open up another position for a Goldman-Sachs guy, so it is a win-win. 🙄

Obama positively needs Holder and his black panthers to scare white folks away from voting this november.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I remember something along those lines as well, will try and find a source as that makes F&F even dirtier. I hope Obama has the testicular fortitude to replace Holder, after the elections would be the usual time for this sort of thing IIRC.

Letting go of Holder would open up another position for a Goldman-Sachs guy, so it is a win-win. 🙄

This isn't what I was originally thinking of, but something along similar lines:
http://townhall.com/columnists/kati...nt_for_atfdoj_gun_walking_mistakes/page/full/

 

[boomerang]

 

[cybrsage]

😀