That about sums it up. I don't see how you can vilify the guy for saying what he did. It seems people here are the ones with chips on their shoulder.
Oh look, a self-important ass who thinks he knows everything .. how ... original. :roll:
I have no issues with his wishes or the fact that he is saddened by the fact that his wishes are not reality. I happen to AGREE with him about the point of his speech. What I don't think helped him is calling the entire population "cowards" because we do not live up to what he thinks we should be doing. Those that do not choose to intermingle outside the office are exercising their own freedom of assembly and if they choose not to have friends outside the office that are of other racial/ethnic backgrounds that's their prerogative.
But being combative on the issue using words like "nation of cowards", or in your case words like "jackass" and "moron", doesn't help his, or your, case.
spacejamz
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 10,984
- 1,704
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The same article also had:
Andrew Grant-Thomas, Deputy Director of the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity at Ohio State University, praised Holder's general message but said the wording of the speech may alienate some.
"He's right on the substance, but that's probably not the most politic way of saying it. I'm certain there are people who will hear him and say, 'That's obnoxious,"' he said, adding that what was missing from Holder's speech were specific examples of what painful subjects need to be addressed.
How are you being constructive when you state this country was found by slave owners? Why did he even have to mention that? How can you move foward when you keep bringing up the past in a negative manner?
I don't see where I villified the guy in my earlier post...I asked several questions earlier which dealing with issues that hinder the integration goal identified in the speech...
This speech was not inspirational...MLK's speech was inspiration, not this one sided speech that seems to imply blame to only one side and doesn't recognize the things that need to be addressed from the other side to help achieve this goal.
Red:
He can use whatever words he wants, whether I'm offended or not isn't the issue - I have no constitutional right never to be offended. As I said, ultimately his point and his desires for society are laudable and I agree with him in principle, but you've been around long enough to know as well as I do that in many cases, particularly in public office, it isn't WHAT you say but HOW you say it. My point is merely that HOW he said it didn't help him. Had he been anyone else but the newly appointed first ever black Attorney General his speech wouldn't even have made the news, but since he is, it did, and his wording for his wishes wasn't great.
He can use whatever words he wants, whether I'm offended or not isn't the issue - I have no constitutional right never to be offended. As I said, ultimately his point and his desires for society are laudable and I agree with him in principle, but you've been around long enough to know as well as I do that in many cases, particularly in public office, it isn't WHAT you say but HOW you say it. My point is merely that HOW he said it didn't help him. Had he been anyone else but the newly appointed first ever black Attorney General his speech wouldn't even have made the news, but since he is, it did, and his wording for his wishes wasn't great.
From the OP:
"Minorities have realized the easiest way to get something is to claim you didnt get it because of your skin color, then demand it."
Resent much? I know there's a war against whitey and everything but please try to suppress your seething hatred.
"Minorities have realized the easiest way to get something is to claim you didnt get it because of your skin color, then demand it."
Resent much? I know there's a war against whitey and everything but please try to suppress your seething hatred.
Bill Cosby said some harsh truths about the black community and many vilified him for it as well, just as Jesse Jackson didn't much appreciate Obama's comments. I'd love to see some prominent white guy get on the news and talk about how a certain segment of the white population needs to get their head out of their collective asses about their interaction with other races.
Personally I think the late Pres. Kennedy said it best at his speech at the American University in 1963: "For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."
Skin color and ethnicity are just window dressing. They can be divisive window dressing to be sure, but ultimately it doesn't change the fact that someday my life might be saved because someone of a different race donated blood or an organ. The real dividing issues seem to come down to politics and religion, whose dogmatic ideas cross racial and ethnic boundaries.
Personally I think the late Pres. Kennedy said it best at his speech at the American University in 1963: "For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."
Skin color and ethnicity are just window dressing. They can be divisive window dressing to be sure, but ultimately it doesn't change the fact that someday my life might be saved because someone of a different race donated blood or an organ. The real dividing issues seem to come down to politics and religion, whose dogmatic ideas cross racial and ethnic boundaries.
I'm not quite sure how you laud Crosby, when Holder basically did the same thing. He talked straight to us and called us cowards which a lot of people are. A lot of people are quite happy with the status quo, and don't want to move outside their own social bubble. I myself am guilty of this, I hang out with college buddies and high school friends who live around me in Hoboken, I don't really try to reach out to different groups. I just don't understand everyone's hate with the man's straight talk, god forbid he uses the naughty word "coward" when it truly describes most people's approach to branching out across cultural barriers.
How would you have put it? How do you tell people they are cowards if they are cowards. I deal with this problem all the time. People hate themselves. You can't tell them anything about it because if you do they feel like you hate them. When you attempt to show anybody anything about themselves they turn on you as an enemy because their whole lives are involved in avoiding what they feel.
If you were to discuss this with Holder, himself, he may feel you're attacking him for his language.
But I do like that you, as a result of this dialog, have expressed what you feel, that you are sensitive to the issue of how you are addressed and that is a start.
So, can you see that if you ARE a coward is maybe some teeny weeny little way, or a teensy weensy bit of a fraidy cat, as Red suggested, what are you going to do on that end. Holder needs to tighten up his wording. How what do you need to do?
It's not going to do any good for him to suppress it. He needs to let it bleed out along with all the puss and bile that is festering in him. He was made to feel like a worthless piece of shit as a child and needs to open those wounds. The racist stuff is just a way to make himself feel superior so he doesn't have to feel his pain. If he explodes from the hate he suppressed he will lose that cover and maybe become human again.
Remember, we are all insane and down is up. It's 1984 for everybody.
I mentioned Cosby on this because he isn't a government official who is supposed to represent the entire country. Cosby put his reputation and standing in the community at risk when talking straight about the issue. Cosby didn't attempt to say "oh what a beautiful world it would be if we all hung out together", he just came out and said "Quit blaming everyone else for your own short comings, fix yourself before you worry about the rest"
Holder put the label "cowardice" on something that for all he knows could be a conscious decision on peoples part NOT to associate with one another outside the office. That does make the cowards. It might make them narrow minded and it might mean they miss out on some things, but it doesn't necessarily make them cowards.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
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I'll take stupid ass racist OP's for $1000. Wishes the OP had the balls to tell blacks how he really feels about them IRL.
Well the first part I see your viewpoint, I still don't agree with you thinking it is not within Holder's right to have a speech about race relations during Black History Month.
The second part you are playing semantics with the word coward. Claiming someone doesn't want to associate because of close-mindedness more or less amounts to them being a coward imo, but whatever this topic isn't about debating the word coward.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
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So one half black half white man makes everything ok? Look up Kstreet to whom he's betrothed to and it should give you a clue how far we have to go. In fact this whole threads premise is racist saying "hey look ma, we put a black face in white house now stop your bitching" trivializing real problems and racial divide of millions. I won't comment on specifics since Holden never did either just commenting on the denial.
Fortunately for the population I am not a speech writer
I just don't think that everyone who chooses not to mix inter-racially is a coward. Just because they choose not to do something that someone else thinks they should doesn't make it cowardice. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the fear Mr. Holder was talking about doesn't exist - it most certainly does. But as General George S. Patton found out in WWII, publicly slapping someone for what you think is cowardice doesn't necessarily get you the results you were looking for. This is what Mr. Holder effectively did in his speech and I don't believe it helped his cause, that's all.I understand this only because I've lived it. My parents are racist, not screamingly KKK or anything but they're definitely in that "coward" category when it comes to mixing and they have some opinions that I've never understood. But then I didn't grow up in the era of segregation in the South that they did and I wasn't subject to those sorts of social pressures. They were completely horrified when I dated girls from all races and ethnicities (sp?) in high school and college. I brought home mixed race friends and never had a second thought about it because I never saw an issue with it. My folks didn't much like it but they didn't try to stop me, which in their own way was a huge step.
The non-PC confrontation of "cowardice" can't be done in a public way because it shames people publicly and they react negatively to that. It's one thing to have a private conversation and tell someone their being scared and cowardly over something that is irrational and you might have a chance at opening their eyes and minds. Do it publicly where the spotlight is on them and they'll dig in their heels.
Oh he's perfectly within his rights to make the speech and I don't think I ever objected to his right to do so. I just think that as a public official that's supposed to represent all of us he shouldn't have done it with the language he chose. Not that he was wrong, he just did it in a way that was guaranteed to not reach those folks that he really needed to reach.
I latched onto the word "coward" in his speech because it seem to me to be a very polarizing word to use, which isn't, imo, something you're trying to do when talking about achieving racial harmony. Being called a coward is a visceral thing to anyone, just like the N-word is visceral to the black community. It immediately gets people on the defensive and almost guarantees that the people you needed to reach will the ones who shut you off once you call them a "coward".
Originally posted by: racolvin
Fortunately for the population I am not a speech writer
I understand this only because I've lived it. My parents are racist, not screamingly KKK or anything but they're definitely in that "coward" category when it comes to mixing and they have some opinions that I've never understood. But then I didn't grow up in the era of segregation in the South that they did and I wasn't subject to those sorts of social pressures. They were completely horrified when I dated girls from all races and ethnicities (sp?) in high school and college. I brought home mixed race friends and never had a second thought about it because I never saw an issue with it. My folks didn't much like it but they didn't try to stop me, which in their own way was a huge step.
The non-PC confrontation of "cowardice" can't be done in a public way because it shames people publicly and they react negatively to that. It's one thing to have a private conversation and tell someone their being scared and cowardly over something that is irrational and you might have a chance at opening their eyes and minds. Do it publicly where the spotlight is on them and they'll dig in their heels.
I think it's funny that in "general" the people over-reacting to the word "coward" don't mind using it extensively and inaccurately to label the liberal's general stance on military issues. Of course Holder's use of the word coward applies to far more than just republicans as tons of democrats are guilty of what he describes, but in terms of who is overacting, it just gives me lolz.
Hahaha, you don't even need to read the OP's name to know who this post came from. Racist premise? Check. Poor reading comprehension and self refuting article link? Check. That's Specop every time, he's one of the best known racists on here.
I've noticed that. Why do certain posters here always come across as white men who are scared/intimidated of minorities?
Damn black people just cant have ANYTHING to ourselves can we? You steal our freedom, our music.. you give us a measly month out of the year and now you want us to share it with the rest of the races too?!
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