Hold 'Em - can most people become very good at this?

[Vilica]

You also have to deal with the suckouts inherent. Just now in a tourney, I moved allin for 85 thousand against a guy holding a hand that had 2 outs to beat me. 2 outs twice, and he hit. You can play perfectly for 3-4 hours, and all it takes is one person with a bigger stack than you to suckout, and bam you're done.

 

[Vilica]

Originally posted by: FrogDog
I've been practicing calculating hand odds and pots by playing online quite a bit lately (for fake money). It's very difficult to do without taking forever. I wonder if the pros actually calculate these odds before making their play or if they just go more on feel.

A lot of it is repetition. If you play enough hands, and see enough flops, you get really good at calculating outs. If there are 2 cards to come, divide your outs by 4. If there's one card to come, divide it by 2. Those are -roughly- your pot odds (its in Sklansky), and you can base your decision on that. However, realistically most pros play on feel. The math might be ingrained in them, but in the end its all about your read of them.

 

[Chu]

Originally posted by: FrogDog
I've been practicing calculating hand odds and pots by playing online quite a bit lately (for fake money). It's very difficult to do without taking forever. I wonder if the pros actually calculate these odds before making their play or if they just go more on feel.

It really shouldn't take forever. Your percentage to hit on the next card is almost exactly outs * 2. Then just do some rounding to get pot odds. Doesn't take more then 2 seconds. Also - the same sistuations come up again and again. What are the odds of hitting a flush from a 4 flush? Any pro will tell you ~1:3. That's not cause they quickly did the math in their head . . .

-Chu

 

[Entity]

Man...played some .25/.50 NL HE for the first time in a while today (have played NL at microlimits, with ultra-loose players -- easy to beat, and in tournaments). That was a crazy game. Ended up $45 up in less than an hour, but those stakes were too much for me to continue at -- while some of the players were better, most simply have a HUGE bankroll compared to mine.

I just wanted to see what it was like, and took down three nice pots over the course of it -- doubled up with AA vs QQ, caught a 6-high flush when I was holding A3 in the BB, and got DAMNED lucky holding AQ vs KK. Raised $2 to me, everyone folds, I call (was BB). I'm holding Ac Qh, flop [3c Qc 6c]. Top pair, and I'm UTG -- thinking at this point I'm up against KK or AK, couldn't quite figure out which. Either way, I've got TPTK w/nut flush draw, so I lead at it for $4, and it's immediately raised to $10. Ok -- either KK or AA (highly unlikely). Call for one more card based on implied odds, 8c falls. Check to the raiser, he pushes me all-in. 😀 Got lucky that in his KK he was holding the Kc, and he got a bit greedy. Regardless, I'm not ready to play at a level where $67 pots are standard. My bankroll can't handle those swings. Back to $.5/1 or maybe $1/2 when I get bored of $.5/1.

Rob

 

[geckojohn]

texas scrotem is fun.

 

[new2AMD]

I knew Chu would come in this thread and start throwing around poker terms. Never fails.

Bottom line on your question is that you are also watching tournaments on tv. They play differently then money games. When you pay one price(or even win your way in) you have less to lose than if you play from your wallet. Strategies are different because you are trying to outlast other players as opposed to not losing your entire life savings.

 

[Ilmater]

Not everyone is capable of hiding their reactions/actions adequately.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Always some scumbag shill pronouncing money to be made at online poker.

Get lost you POS.

 

[shimsham]

id say its 75% luck. sure you can read players, calculate odds and bet accordingly, and you might even bluff a player out of a strong hand. but it all really comes down to the cards. doesnt matter how much skill you have, all it takes is one other person to hang around and catch a good card.

i wouldnt make any assessment of the game from playing on line. comp games and live games are 2 totally different beasts.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Atomicus
Yup, little to do with cards. So I guess the statistics they show in Hold'em telvised games means nothing. NO? The cards matters just as much as in BlackJack. If you play with a bigger deck, the odds increase against you and vice versa. Seriously, you can break it down into probability, its not all about the poker face. You can have a terrible poker face and know the statistics and do the right bets and still win.

That is a dumb way to look at it. To look at it like that you would have to assume that all of the players know what each other player is holding. It doesn't work that way.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

I think its just like everything else. Most people can become skilled with a lot of hard work and practice, and there are other people who are naturally talented become exceptional with experience. The fact that big name players consistently reach the final tables of large tournaments suggests that skill plays a large role in a poker players success. The intriguing thing about poker, is the luck factor. No matter how good of a player you are, you can get beat on any given hand. Good players can minimize the effects luck has by calculating odds and reading people, but good cards will always beat bad cards. This is also part of the appeal to the game, that amateurs can suceed with a nice streak of luck. Its a very dynamic game and I am not surprised its popularity has increased like it has.