HOA Out of Control!

[TangoJuliet]

So a couple of months ago I started this thread here.

For those that don't want to click the link, or read the couple of pages here are the cliffs:

A building in my complex was found to have a crumbling foundation and it was sinking
The HOA decides to charge every unit it the complex $1000 to fund the project
The HOA decides that they will divide the payments into 4 payments bi-monthly - making it a little easier to swallow
Receive letter saying the costs are more then expected and payments are to be made every month

When my wife and I moved into the complex our monthly common charges were $220/m. Now these charges only include water, garbage and landscaping - no electric, etc. About a year later they bumped the charges to $280. Now I just got another letter saying because of the building repair project they have no money left and are going to bump the charges up to $380/m. And that is on top of the $1000 assessment we have already been charged.

I know we are at the mercy of the HOA but is there anything we can do to fight back? I know times are tough for many people and some may not be able to afford such charges. If they don't pay then will the HOA be able to put a lien against their house?

Lastly, in this new letter there was an itemized list of the charges for the building repairs. Apparently the HOA decided to put all of the people affected by repairs up into a hotel (Residence Inn). Looking at the bill they spent over $50,000 in 2 months for housing. Now, I understand that for those people it sucks for this to be happening but the community is helping pay to fix their homes. We should not also be required to pay for their housing. I'm sure those affected by the repairs could put it on their home owners insurance or something.

I had requested a copy of their bylaws but the office manager that I was dealing with quit and only recently has a new one been hired. I sent her my request for the bylaws.

Also, was the HOA required to get estimates from multiple vendors for the repairs? I'm again looking at the itemized list and it shows some repairs were done by D&G who does most of the repairs in the complex - however over the summer I had my windows replaced and called them for a quote and they were almost 2x's more expensive then Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.

Update 11/13

So tonight there was a special meeting called by the board to approve a loan to repair the building. The meeting was rather festive. There were around 300 people in the audience. Apparantly 7 home owners hired a lawyer for the rest of us. The CFO from the board began the meeting saying that the group that hired the lawyer had a different agenda then what the meeting was being called for and that non of those issues were going to be discussed.

This sent half the place into an uproar including the lawyer and those people walked out of the meeting. On the way out, one of the owners of the buidling that is being repaired got into an argument with someone and a fight broke out. There was an off duty cop there and he pounced on one of the guys that started swinging. The dude was like 6'8 300lbs.

Anyways, we found out that the loan is going to be in the upwards of $500,000 and will go towards repairing the building, fixing roofs in the next 4-5 years and replacing the $200,000 of the reserve fund that has already been spent. If the loan was not approved then everyone would be assessed the amount of around $2500 which would be due a week before Christmas.

People wanted to know the exact costs of what has been paid out already and what needed to be done and nobody would answer the question. We also found out that our common charges were going to be increased from $280 to $380 a month to pay off the loan. Oh and the loan is an open ended loan with it being interest only until it reaches term (around 12 months) and then the loan being repaid in around 4-5 years after that.

We left the meeting not casting our vote as nobody did. The CFO said there was going to be an issue as to whether the meeting would be counted as "official" needed atleast 50% of the home owners present. It was going to come down to a legal matter and if it was "official" then since nobody voted then everyone is going to be assessed the $2500.

 

[Codewiz]

If the HOA is responsible for the foundation, why is it your problem? Shouldn't the HOA have insurance for things like this?

 

[Scouzer]

I think you're confusing HOA with Condo Assocations...

 

[smack Down]

haha, now you know why HOA suck. But hey at least no ones lawn is more then 2 inches.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
If the HOA is responsible for the foundation, why is it your problem? Shouldn't the HOA have insurance for things like this?

The HOA is claiming that their insurance will not cover the "disaster". Originally it was thought that the unit was sinking because of a sink hole. Upon further examination it was found that the unit's foundation was not constructed properly 20+ years ago.

I'm pretty sure the construction company that built the units is no longer in business which is why they cannot sue the company and which is why the buck is being passed down to us.

I also think the HOA is trying to sue the town because they were the one's that had to approve of the construction to get the CO - not 100% sure on that though

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
So a couple of months ago I started this thread here.

For those that don't want to click the link, or read the couple of pages here are the cliffs:

A building in my complex was found to have a crumbling foundation and it was sinking
The HOA decides to charge every unit it the complex $1000 to fund the project
The HOA decides that they will divide the payments into 4 payments bi-monthly - making it a little easier to swallow
Receive letter saying the costs are more then expected and payments are to be made every month

When my wife and I moved into the complex our monthly common charges were $220/m. Now these charges only include water, garbage and landscaping - no electric, etc. About a year later they bumped the charges to $280. Now I just got another letter saying because of the building repair project they have no money left and are going to bump the charges up to $380/m. And that is on top of the $1000 assessment we have already been charged.

I know we are at the mercy of the HOA but is there anything we can do to fight back? I know times are tough for many people and some may not be able to afford such charges. If they don't pay then will the HOA be able to put a lien against their house?

Lastly, in this new letter there was an itemized list of the charges for the building repairs. Apparently the HOA decided to put all of the people affected by repairs up into a hotel (Residence Inn). Looking at the bill they spent over $50,000 in 2 months for housing. Now, I understand that for those people it sucks for this to be happening but the community is helping pay to fix their homes. We should not also be required to pay for their housing. I'm sure those affected by the repairs could put it on their home owners insurance or something.

I had requested a copy of their bylaws but the office manager that I was dealing with quit and only recently has a new one been hired. I sent her my request for the bylaws.

Also, was the HOA required to get estimates from multiple vendors for the repairs? I'm again looking at the itemized list and it shows some repairs were done by D&G who does most of the repairs in the complex - however over the summer I had my windows replaced and called them for a quote and they were almost 2x's more expensive then Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.

Welcome to Corporatized Communism. This brand, wherein a Corporation is the dictator, is the New American version and will be spreading across the nation over the next decade. It's happening already in the Finance industry.
Notice that a majority of new home developements are HOA controlled. You do not own your home, the HOA does. Fail at a Covenant controlled regulation and they will encumber and force a sale on "your" home.
Screw HOAs and the Corporatizing of America.

 

[alkemyst]

Here is the way it works...

The 'HOA' represents a congress for all the homeowners. It's made up and voted by the homeowners. What happens is most move into a place not really giving a shit about the rules applying to them, but rather insisting all their neighbors follow them.

These same neighbors are usually the ones active and voting. If the majority of a community decides on something then it's what one gives up living there. It the same way people look at the government that don't vote. They think when a new road just appears and an assement placed on taxes that some 'dude' just decided one day to throw a road out and build it. Chances are there were signs posts, an article in the local papers, and a mention on the local news that voting would be taking place and what the impact on each person would be if it's built.

This more than likely being a Condo association changes things in 1 major way...all members are usually physically connected and share common access, roof and all mechanicals of a building.

If you foundation is failing and insurance will not cover it...you as a collective have to act.

Whether that is suing the original builder, footing the bill for repairs, or electing to sell off the entire building to an investor for rebuilding.

If you feel the representatives on the HOA are getting kickbacks or using 'buddy system' tactics on bids then you need to get together with others and contact an attorney.

 

[Aharami]

just the monthly rate hike from 220/month to 380/month would have me up in arms. You could try to gather up the homeowners and try to file a lawsuit against the HoA. You also need to talk to a lawyer stat. That is a HUGE increase!! The HoA should've been putting away part of everyone's monthly payments toward a reserve fund meant for big projects like this. The assessment is understandable since even reserves doesnt cover all of big projects like this one. But they shouldnt be hiking up the rates just cuz their reserve will be depleted. The reserve will have to be built up slowly over time again. Thats how it works. 380/month is CRAZY!!!!

 

[Gibson486]

Hand Or Auto?????

 

[Vette73]

If you HAVE to live in a HOA then run for the board and take control over this. Also have you talked to your neighbors about this? Go door to door and have them sign a petition saying the HOA should stop payment now. This also gives you a chance to introduce yourself and make a run for the HOA board.

I would get on the board and stop paying for the hotel for the people. Sorry but that is not a job for the HOA to take on. Hell I would not even have paid to fix their foundation. A HOA's REAL job is just to make sure the grass is made up, trash cans are not out to long, keep the common areas up, etc... They should have little, if not nohing, to do with the upkeep/repairs of the homes. Esp ones that are 20+ years old. Also how do you know the foundation was not up to code 20years ago? A house built 20+ years ago would not pass todays code, so why compare todays code to yesterdays houses.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you HAVE to live in a HOA then run for the board and take control over this. Also have you talked to your neighbors about this? Go door to door and have them sign a petition saying the HOA should stop payment now. This also gives you a chance to introduce yourself and make a run for the HOA board.

I would get on the board and stop paying for the hotel for the people. Sorry but that is not a job for the HOA to take on. Hell I would not even have paid to fix their foundation. A HOA's REAL job is just to make sure the grass is made up, trash cans are not out to long, keep the common areas up, etc... They should have little, if not nohing, to do with the upkeep/repairs of the homes. Esp ones that are 20+ years old. Also how do you know the foundation was not up to code 20years ago? A house built 20+ years ago would not pass todays code, so why compare todays code to yesterdays houses.

Man, I wished you lived in our complex! I'll talk to some of my neighbor's and see what they think about it and if any of them want to get involved or are lawyers and can help. I really don't have the time right now to get involved - I wish I did though.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Here is the way it works...

The 'HOA' represents a congress for all the homeowners. It's made up and voted by the homeowners. What happens is most move into a place not really giving a shit about the rules applying to them, but rather insisting all their neighbors follow them.

These same neighbors are usually the ones active and voting. If the majority of a community decides on something then it's what one gives up living there. It the same way people look at the government that don't vote. They think when a new road just appears and an assement placed on taxes that some 'dude' just decided one day to throw a road out and build it. Chances are there were signs posts, an article in the local papers, and a mention on the local news that voting would be taking place and what the impact on each person would be if it's built.

This more than likely being a Condo association changes things in 1 major way...all members are usually physically connected and share common access, roof and all mechanicals of a building.

If you foundation is failing and insurance will not cover it...you as a collective have to act.

Whether that is suing the original builder, footing the bill for repairs, or electing to sell off the entire building to an investor for rebuilding.

If you feel the representatives on the HOA are getting kickbacks or using 'buddy system' tactics on bids then you need to get together with others and contact an attorney.

OR it can be a place where there is a core group of owners who have banded together to form an unbreakable power block that does things they way it wants, regardless of how many others try to get involved. It is also a place where the normal laws of The United States or the State where the HOA is located do not apply , due to language in the HOA agreement. One voluntarily entered into, granted, but one still fraught with peril of a more personal and less communal nature.
Entrenched relationships like this are often the result of back room / buddy deals that do not stand well in the light of day, and flourish in the hidden crevices of HOA CC&R's.
Anytime there is one contractor only approved for Homeowner repairs / maintenance, there is collusion. Expediency and profit are favored over Value and Expense control.
Lawyer for sure, but you'll need a Forensic Accountant to really find out whats going on.

Simply put, the HOA board members treat it like their own banana republic which flies in the face of everything this country stands for, and then they call themselves "Patriots". BULLSHIT.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you HAVE to live in a HOA then run for the board and take control over this. Also have you talked to your neighbors about this? Go door to door and have them sign a petition saying the HOA should stop payment now. This also gives you a chance to introduce yourself and make a run for the HOA board.

I would get on the board and stop paying for the hotel for the people. Sorry but that is not a job for the HOA to take on. Hell I would not even have paid to fix their foundation. A HOA's REAL job is just to make sure the grass is made up, trash cans are not out to long, keep the common areas up, etc... They should have little, if not nohing, to do with the upkeep/repairs of the homes. Esp ones that are 20+ years old. Also how do you know the foundation was not up to code 20years ago? A house built 20+ years ago would not pass todays code, so why compare todays code to yesterdays houses.

It really depends on the by laws of the condo association, but in most places they're required to take care of everything outside of the interior walls of the condo unit. Keep in mind that the individual condo owners usually do not actually own the buildings themselves, just the interior living area of their unit. Because of that, the foundations become the problem of the association. It's also the same reason why the association can tell you want color trim you must have on your garage door... it's technically their garage door.

I can't imagine why that the association should be responsible for providing hotel rooms for 2 months, though... What do the condo by laws say about that?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

OR it can be a place where there is a core group of owners who have banded together to form an unbreakable power block that does things they way it wants, regardless of how many others try to get involved. It is also a place where the normal laws of The United States or the State where the HOA is located do not apply , due to language in the HOA agreement. One voluntarily entered into, granted, but one still fraught with peril of a more personal and less communal nature.
Entrenched relationships like this are often the result of back room / buddy deals that do not stand well in the light of day, and flourish in the hidden crevices of HOA CC&R's.
Anytime there is one contractor only approved for Homeowner repairs / maintenance, there is collusion. Expediency and profit are favored over Value and Expense control.
Lawyer for sure, but you'll need a Forensic Accountant to really find out whats going on.

Simply put, the HOA board members treat it like their own banana republic which flies in the face of everything this country stands for, and then they call themselves "Patriots". BULLSHIT.

No in reality if enough homeowners did get together things would change.

I don't know what the words of the HOA being different than local law have anything to do with this...the homeowner agrees to be bound by them when he signs them.

Also suing your HOA is a dumbass move as a first resort as you will have to pay for that regardless.

If others are having a problem with this (usually assessment increases that were required only get majorly complained about by those struggling to live there) they can pay a reasonable fee together to have their own estimate and compare it to the other bid.

If something is discovered then they can move forware.

Again though you need others to care as well and be social enough to organize it.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you HAVE to live in a HOA then run for the board and take control over this. Also have you talked to your neighbors about this? Go door to door and have them sign a petition saying the HOA should stop payment now. This also gives you a chance to introduce yourself and make a run for the HOA board.

I would get on the board and stop paying for the hotel for the people. Sorry but that is not a job for the HOA to take on. Hell I would not even have paid to fix their foundation. A HOA's REAL job is just to make sure the grass is made up, trash cans are not out to long, keep the common areas up, etc... They should have little, if not nohing, to do with the upkeep/repairs of the homes. Esp ones that are 20+ years old. Also how do you know the foundation was not up to code 20years ago? A house built 20+ years ago would not pass todays code, so why compare todays code to yesterdays houses.

I believe this is a condo...so their foundation is your foundation....you being out of a home is due to their foundation also causing that.

Condos are more a collective than anything else.

If this was housing then the HOA would not have nothing to do with it and being it's a 20 year old construction it's doubtful the builder is responsible either.

 

[her209]

I don't think anyone can buy into a house/condo/townhouse without having to be part of a HOA in south Orange County. It really ticks me off.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Yes, theoretically speaking if enough homeowners did get together things would change.

I don't know what the words of the HOA being different than local law have anything to do with this...the homeowner agrees to be bound by them when he signs them.

Also suing your HOA is a dumbass move as a first resort as you will have to pay for that regardless.

If others are having a problem with this (usually assessment increases that were required only get majorly complained about by those struggling to live there) they can pay a reasonable fee together to have their own estimate and compare it to the other bid.

If something is discovered then they can move forware.

Again though you need others to care as well and be social enough to organize it.

Fixed, and if you've ever read a tome that is a CC&R, you will find buried in there, forced arbitration agreements, and multitudes of other basic legal rights being "signed away", oftentimes without any real justification (imo) and simply there as a "placemark" so "they" (HOA) have legal superiroity as opposed to the homeowner.
THAT being said, I understand not all HOAs are like the mini gulag I was party to, but ANYTIME a small group get together and usurp the Common Law of These United States, I say that's a slippery slope my friend and it needs to be stopped.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you HAVE to live in a HOA then run for the board and take control over this. Also have you talked to your neighbors about this? Go door to door and have them sign a petition saying the HOA should stop payment now. This also gives you a chance to introduce yourself and make a run for the HOA board.

I would get on the board and stop paying for the hotel for the people. Sorry but that is not a job for the HOA to take on. Hell I would not even have paid to fix their foundation. A HOA's REAL job is just to make sure the grass is made up, trash cans are not out to long, keep the common areas up, etc... They should have little, if not nohing, to do with the upkeep/repairs of the homes. Esp ones that are 20+ years old. Also how do you know the foundation was not up to code 20years ago? A house built 20+ years ago would not pass todays code, so why compare todays code to yesterdays houses.

I believe this is a condo...so their foundation is your foundation....you being out of a home is due to their foundation also causing that.

Condos are more a collective than anything else.

If this was housing then the HOA would not have nothing to do with it and being it's a 20 year old construction it's doubtful the builder is responsible either.

Condo's are the next level below actual communal living. Most people don't "get" that.The HOA paying for hotel expenses until repairs are completed is totally in line with reasonable.
Having a "no-bid" Preferred Contractor milking it for all it's worth is something else entirely.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Yes, theoretically speaking if enough homeowners did get together things would change.

I don't know what the words of the HOA being different than local law have anything to do with this...the homeowner agrees to be bound by them when he signs them.

Also suing your HOA is a dumbass move as a first resort as you will have to pay for that regardless.

If others are having a problem with this (usually assessment increases that were required only get majorly complained about by those struggling to live there) they can pay a reasonable fee together to have their own estimate and compare it to the other bid.

If something is discovered then they can move forware.

Again though you need others to care as well and be social enough to organize it.

Fixed, and if you've ever read a tome that is a CC&R, you will find buried in there, forced arbitration agreements, and multitudes of other basic legal rights being "signed away", oftentimes without any real justification (imo) and simply there as a "placemark" so "they" (HOA) have legal superiroity as opposed to the homeowner.
THAT being said, I understand not all HOAs are like the mini gulag I was party to, but ANYTIME a small group get together and usurp the Common Law of These United States, I say that's a slippery slope my friend and it needs to be stopped.

I have yet to see a HOA not voted on. The by-laws REGARDLESS of how lengthy are an agreement.

The reason things are forced is because should Joe Homeowner think he is his own little island and puts up a drive-in theatre and chicken farm, the HOA can act immediately and that is a good thing.

I don't live in an HOA because I don't see myself needing to have my neighbors actively policed nor myself. I could afford to buy into an established community of like-minded people. You will have your problem houses and we as other homeowners will make the comments as we see those owners and usually they catch on and cut their grass more frequently, put some sod down, paint, etc.

Most that can't follow HOA laws really can't afford too and shouldn't be living in that particular community then.

Not everyone is entitled to a McMansion.

 

[Eli]

Why the fuck anyone willingly subjects themselves to an HOA is beyond my comprehension.

It makes me angry just thinking about it. Fuck all that business. I'd have laughed at them if they tried to make me pay for someone else's crumbling foundation.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Wait, we have to clarify things. OP, is this a condo or a house. Do you own the property? If not, then this is NOT an HOA, this is a condo association. There's a huge difference.

 

[Jumpem]

Move. And let this be a listen to never live under an HOA.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Welcome to Corporatized Communism.

This brand, wherein a Corporation is the dictator, is the New American version and will be spreading across the nation over the next decade.

It's happening already in the Finance industry.

Notice that a majority of new home developements are HOA controlled.

You do not own your home, the HOA does.

Fail at a Covenant controlled regulation and they will encumber and force a sale on "your" home.

Screw HOAs and the Corporatizing of America.

Someone that gets it

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Wait, we have to clarify things. OP, is this a condo or a house. Do you own the property? If not, then this is NOT an HOA, this is a condo association. There's a huge difference.

Sorry guys it took so long for me to write back - was kinda busy yesterday.

I own a condo, not the property. The letter has wordings of both the "HOA" and "condo association" so I'm not sure what the difference is between them. My guess would be the HOA is the "board" and the condo association is the company that actually owns the property.

 

[Skiddex]

i am actually on the board of our condo association (we call it an HOA as well) and we have our annual meeting tonight. sounds like your reserve fund was not properly funded for this type of event. Our current wording is that we cant have more than 25% of our annual association dues in our reserve fund which we are voting on tomorrow to change to at least 25% just for this type of occasion.

assessments and raised dues do suck, but people have to sign HOA agreements to buy the properties, but it is their loss. sounds like your dues sky rocketed...do you have a clause stating an annual max increase? i believe our board can only raise dues 10% / year outside of and emergency assessment.