Hmm, why go custom, when you can get an AlienWare...

VirtualLarry

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So I just found out that my BIL, got an Alienware. I knew his older gaming PC was getting older, old enough that it might have been overheating or failing by now.

Was thinking of building him a SKL rig, and giving him my two 7950 video cards. Well, when I get more money.

Maybe he wasn't happy with his older rig?

I built it with a Gigabyte X48-UD5 board, 8GB DDR2, Q9550 (OCed to 3.5Ghz @ 1.3v), dual HD6870 cards (they were literally the newest GPUs on the market at the time), a 64GB SSD, and a 1TB WD Green HDD. With an Antec TP Classic 750W PSU (Japanese caps).

I know that he had trouble with certain games not supporting CF, and in fact, crashing if it was enabled. So AMD's drivers and game support for CF was definitely an issue.

Or maybe he just wanted to be cool and say he had an Alienware. I don't know.

A little disappointing for me, I would have loved to build him another custom rig.

Edit: I don't know who they're fooling, but the X51 pre-configured models are nothing to write home about. Locked i5, 8GB DDR3, 750ti, 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD, $900??? Ouch.
 
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I farted around with CF a couple years ago, it was definitely a mixed bag, and I wouldn't recommend it for most people in most circumstances. It's certainly not something I would give a n00b. The response to scary Bluescreens or CTDs that cause the group to lose the deathmatch is never "that's normal" it's "I will fix that." Even if it means replacing the CF 6870s with a single 7870.

2x 6870s and a C2Q is pretty long in the tooth now. I'm not surprised he wanted a new machine.

And if he had a lot of crashes with the machine you built him, well, it doesn't surprise me that he quietly got a prebuilt from somebody else either. You've spent enough time on forums to know there's a lot of people who "NEVAR AGAIN!!" after a bad experience with a brand, and like it or not, you're a brand.

And honestly, if he's family, he might have realized that you stockpile old, cheap hardware to build rigs for people, and sell people used kit, and he might have decided he wanted something "nice." (I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong to do that, or that he was right to assume that used hardware = crashes, but the optics are terrible. Culturally, we've definitely gone from "fix old" to "I don't want it fixed, I want a new one!" and that's horrifying and bad, but it's where we're at.)

The X51 is $900 because it's SFF prebuilt that runs quiet, runs cool, and has a better warranty than some new cars - not because it's the best bang for your buck gaming PC out there.

tl;dr, I hope your feelings aren't hurt, but I think I can come up with a few reasonably good reasons (from BILs perspective) for him to do that.
 
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VirtualLarry

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And if he had a lot of crashes with the machine you built him, well, it doesn't surprise me that he quietly got a prebuilt from somebody else either. You've spent enough time on forums to know there's a lot of people who "NEVAR AGAIN!!" after a bad experience with a brand, and like it or not, you're a brand.
The machine didn't crash or BSOD, it was appcrashes from one particular game (Civ V?) that happened when CF was enabled.
http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?88456-Civ-5-with-ATI-adapters-in-a-Crossfire-configuration

And honestly, if he's family, he might have realized that you stockpile old, cheap hardware to build rigs for people, and sell people used kit, and he might have decided he wanted something "nice." (I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong to do that, or that he was right to assume that used hardware = crashes, but the optics are terrible. Culturally, we've definitely gone from "fix old" to "I don't want it fixed, I want a new one!" and that's horrifying and bad, but it's where we're at.)
It wasn't used kit, it was all brand-new. I think that it was $1200 or $1500. The video cards alone were $280 x2.
http://hardocp.com/article/2010/10/21/amd_radeon_hd_6870_6850_video_card_review
Hmm, review says they were $240 at intro. Maybe that's how much they were. I know that they were more expensive than my GTX460 1GB cards, by quite a bit.
That article dates the build as late 2010, so that would make it nearly 5 years old. I think that the PSU only had a 5-year warranty, maybe only 3.

tl;dr, I hope your feelings aren't hurt, but I think I can come up with a few reasonably good reasons (from BILs perspective) for him to do that.
Well, maybe he thought that he would have less trouble with an Alienware, but I just hope he cleans the PC regularly. Apparently, he never cleaned out the PC for the years he had it, and they have pets.

And I think that your assumptions (that the PC was unstable, and that I gave him used kit) are a bit unfounded.
 
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And I think that your assumptions (that the PC was unstable, and that I gave him used kit) are a bit unfounded.

Unfounded? You said it.

I know that he had trouble with certain games not supporting CF, and in fact, crashing if it was enabled. So AMD's drivers and game support for CF was definitely an issue.
And you can't really blame me if I read things like this:

Was thinking of building him a SKL rig, and giving him my two 7950 video cards. Well, when I get more money.
And assume it's your SOP.
 

VirtualLarry

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And honestly, if he's family, he might have realized that you stockpile old, cheap hardware to build rigs for people, and sell people used kit

I would like to clarify this for readers. I do "stockpile" hardware, when I can get a deal on it, and it may be "old" compared to the state-of-the-art when I do finally manage to unload it, but I do NOT "stockpile old hardware". At least, not intentionally. (For example, when I bought my A4-6300 Richland FM2 APUs... it was right before or around when Kaveri launched. The boards I got a deal on are FM2+, though. I'm not stockpiling any C2D/Q stuff or DDR2 anymore.)

Also, I do not "sell people used kit"... in place of new kit. I do sell used computers, and rarely, a used part. Mostly, the stuff I sell "used", is stuff that I've used personally and can vouch for its worthiness. Also, I'm completely clear and up-front with the customer. If the computer or part was purchased open-box or refurb, then I tell them. I don't sell HDDs with bad sectors to customers. I do sell off my personally-used HDDs, as long as they aren't showing any issues, after a few years of usage. I also sell off used GPUs, as long as the fans aren't shot, and they don't show any signs of artifacting or overheating, during a stress-test. I give them a low price, commensurate with age and usage. I also give a warranty.
 

VirtualLarry

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And assume it's your SOP.

I said GIVE him my two 7950s. They're barely used, thus far. Not SELL. You seemed to imply that I sell used kit as new. I most certainly do not.

But if they are in good shape, and he could make better use of them than I could, then I think he should have them.
 

VirtualLarry

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Unfounded? You said it.
You said bluescreens. That largely implies that I have failed as a system-integrator, as it implies hardware issues.

I was only referring to some games having programming issues with CF, and appcrashing. Which has nothing to do with my system-integration skills, and everything to do with game code, which is out of my control.
 
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You've never had funky drivers cause bsods?

Dude, chill. I'm not impugning you honor, I'm answering the question you asked in your title. Dude probably bought an AW because he had a bad experience with VL, Inc., if I'm wrong about the specifics, which I'll freely admit are partially speculative, maybe you should ask you BIL what you could have done to keep his business.
 
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VirtualLarry

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You've never had funky drivers cause bsods?

Dude, chill. I'm not impugning you honor, I'm answering the question you asked in your title. Dude probably bought an AW because he had a bad experience with VL, Inc., if I'm wrong about the specifics, which I'll freely admit are partially speculative, maybe you should ask you BIL what you could have done to keep his business.

Ok, sorry for going partial sperglord on you or whatever. It just sounded like you were accusing me of selling him used parts as new, and that's why his PC was BSODing, when in fact, neither is true.

I think it more likely came down to, the old one died, and he needed a new working PC ASAP.

And it wasn't "business", I gave him his last two PCs free of charge, and that's what I meant by "when I have the money". I'm on a limited income these days, so I would have to save a few months to get him the core parts for an unlocked SKL rig.

(I just couldn't stand to see him trying to game on a partially broken-down Dell Pentium D, which is what he had before I entered the picture.)

Edit: It may be partially his preference for Dells, and it might have something to do with where he works, and his co-workers asking what brand his gaming rig is.
 
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Free? Huh. Well, maybe he's just devaluing you because you didn't charge him enough. :)

(Seriously though, that happens - you gotta charge market rates or people think there's a reason your bid is coming in low.)

And I definitely didn't mean to imply you were selling used parts as new - that would be unethical - just that you were selling them. Somebody might think, "well, the used one didn't work out like I thought it would, so I want a new one this time." The disposable society and all that. Personally, I'm a connoisseur of used and factory-refurbished, well, everything. :) (What I don't build myself anyway.)

FWIW, I was playing Civ V on a 2x7750 Crossfire/Eyefinity* setup from shortly after release, and never had a hiccough. (It was actually one of the few games that worked well.) But Steam kept everything on the game side up to date, and I was regularly patching the GPU drivers too for other reasons. So maybe he's just not good at keeping his drivers up to date?

*No, really. 2x7750s. I don't always make smart decisions.

Any chance of recovering the old PC for an autopsy? :D

If you haven't, you might want to spend some cathartic time over at clientsfromhell.net. It's mostly from creative types (graphics designers, etc.) but there's some common themes about difficult customers, or working for family, that I think any independent-contractor sort of person may find relateable.
 
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VirtualLarry

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Free? Huh. Well, maybe he's just devaluing you because you didn't charge him enough. :)

(Seriously though, that happens - you gotta charge market rates or people think there's a reason your bid is coming in low.)
Yeah, maybe. It was a Christmas gift one year. I had the CPU / mobo (new), and the Antec 300 (new), and bought one of the video cards, and convinced my Dad to chip in for the other video card and PSU, after I told him I was building the PC and who it was for.

At the time, though, those video cards were literally the latest and greatest from AMD. It would be like getting a pair of GTX980 cards today. Of course, about 3-4 months later, they released the 69xx series, which is kind of like releasing the 980ti cards months later.

And I figured I would give him even more performance, by getting two of them. It was an Intel-chipset mobo, so it supported Crossfire, and with the X48 chipset, it was a full 32 lanes of PCI-E 2.0, two x16 slots, so full-speed. SLI wasn't really a possibility, as NV's 775 chipsets sucked for overclocking 45nm C2Q CPUs.

And I definitely didn't mean to imply you were selling used parts as new - that would be unethical - just that you were selling them.
Ok, sorry if I over-reacted a bit and got defensive.

FWIW, I was playing Civ V on a 2x7750 Crossfire/Eyefinity* setup from shortly after release, and never had a hiccough. (It was actually one of the few games that worked well.) But Steam kept everything on the game side up to date, and I was regularly patching the GPU drivers too for other reasons. So maybe he's just not good at keeping his drivers up to date?
That's actually a bit interesting. I did link a thread where someone else did have the issue with CF and Civ V, so I know it wasn't my imagination. I think that it got patched a few months after it was out, then it stopped crashing.
Any chance of recovering the old PC for an autopsy? :D
I'd actually like to get it back, if it's "broken", and he doesn't need it. I'm pretty sure that there are probably some salvageable parts in there. If nothing else, a Q9550 and some DDR2 RAM. GPUs and PSU are probably shot, if they are dust-clogged, and overheated and burned out.
If you haven't, you might want to spend some cathartic time over at clientsfromhell.net. It's mostly from creative types (graphics designers, etc.) but there's some common themes about difficult customers, or working for family, that I think any independent-contractor sort of person may find relateable.
Thanks. It's not that he was a "client from hell", or ungrateful, or anything. I was just a bit disappointed and surprised (a little, not totally), to hear that he got an (IMHO, overpriced a bit) Alienware. I did think that his old rig was getting old and tired, and it was time for a new one. I just figured I'd build him a new SKL rig and give it to him. But it would take another month to save up.
 
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This just occurred to me - I suppose it's possible that he knows (or heard about) about your financial difficulties and was trying to not be a burden that way.

So if you hadn't mentioned it, I mean, it could just your sister or dad or somebody trying to look out for you. :)
 

mvbighead

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Apr 20, 2009
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Meh. Building family custom rigs sucks anyways, esp. and "in-law". Good riddance.

I wouldn't agree completely here. Though I would say anything I build for family is going to be simple. Crossfire? Not a chance. I've never really done that myself and sometimes you just don't know what a game will do. If you throw in a good mid range card (roughly $100-200), you ought to be able to adjust teh settings to suit. If they want more eye candy, throw in a $200-400 card depending on amount given.

But aside from all that, a board, CPU, GOOD RAM, and a decent PSU go a long ways.
 

bradly1101

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Having built many systems from my older parts for family, I'd say it's fun but not practical (for me). I never ran into any support problems but the concern for them staying stable wasn't worth it. I didn't charge anything, so I guess it's different if it's a business. Now if anybody asks me to build something (that they would pay for) I just tell a white lie and say I'm not up to speed on new hardware and that they would be better off with a Mac or something, which is partially true; I haven't built anything called 'Skylake' and I would have no idea how to work DDR4 :) I like being out of their technology loop.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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All the PC's i have built were solid.
I always hammer stress every PC i send out.
If it fails in anyway, then i find out why.

I never use bios AUTO, i always go into bios and manually set all specs until it passes the stability.

If you put it together.... set everything on bios on auto.. load windows... pack it up without any form of stress testing... YES.. your asking for whoever you gave that PC to, to give u a call back.
Infact i dont even call that a professional build.. i call that a novice build, which should not be given to anyone but yourself.
 

PliotronX

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Oct 17, 1999
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I hate AW. You see the worst side of QC of Dell on overpriced HW. All these stupid flashy lights and whatnot when I'm going to be spending 99% of the time staring at a monitor, not a GD case. The thing is though, I only build for a very select few individuals, ones that can handle malware cleanups on their own because I will get blamed for all viruses on any PC I build for the rest of the people and that's going to cost them. I might recommend a prebuilt and throw a video card in for them just for the warranty support because most PCs come with only a POS APU these days.