Hmm... where did that LSx go...

[AMCRambler]

Can't watch the vid since I'm at work, but yeah, just from the description it sounds like an awful mod. Kind of like dropping a chevy 350 into a Nissan 240sx. I've seen those around.

So this is a bigger heavier motor than the boxer engine that comes in the WRX and puts out about the same horsepower as the STI variant of the original engine? So basically you've eliminated the awd, and made the car heavier. Isn't a mod supposed to make the car faster, lighter and improve handling? Maybe I'm missing the point.

 

[BW86]

cool - but he should have thrown it in a maita or something

 

[Xandax]

Figured I'd clear a few things up about the builder and this build:

He built the "Civette" LS1 '96 Civic Hatch with full '99 Corvette drivetrain: 10.6 1/4mile @ 128ish with 530hp/610torque.
Daily drives a '05 Lotus Elise

Build includes:
Iron block 6.0 aka LQ4
T-56
He's getting rid of the rear end and replacing it with a cobra 8.8 or something that can hold some power.
That's a 4" diesel tip by the way, not a fart can.
And the fact that you guys think the "fart can" will make the car should like a 4 cylinder is lawl material.
102mm Turbo in a few months.
He's fabricating a custom intake probably something that will split to the left and right to avoid the radiator.

He spent roughly 25 hours of work on it from parking the car to restarting it with the new motor. He chose the LQ4 because it's an iron block that holds boost better than the aluminum blocks. Look for this car to have 600+hp later this year.
He's got less than 5-6 grand in the build including the car. He works for a repair shop and got a hold of the car with a blown engine for 3200, came across the Hummer motor for $1100, and he has 2-3k in other parts.
It is just RWD, he wanted another toy so he built himself one. As you can see he is going for unique and doesn't really care what anyone else is doing or thinks. Miata/RX-7 v8 swaps are common now, why not go with another surprise like the Civette...

If you think he is doing it to make the car faster, handle better, ruin the Subaru image... he isn't. He's doing what he loves, he knows LS motors quite well, so he's just making a toy, end of story.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: joutlaw

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joutlaw

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joutlaw
I disagree that the LQ4 isn't an LSx.

The LM7, LQ4, LQ9, LS1 etc. all use the same basic engine design and are of the LSx family.

The truck motors LM7, LQ4, LQ9 use iron blocks. The LM7 (5.3L) does have a aluminum variant that has been put in GMC Envoys and full size trucks.

A lot of the 5.3s even have been paired with LS1 heads (243 casting number I believe). So if you had an aluminum block 5.3L with 243 heads... you essential had a 5.3L LS1 minus the cam.

A lot of people go with the LQ4 and LQ9 motors if they want to run NO2 or boost. They are also signficantly cheaper than LS1s and you get more displacement at 6.0L versus the LS1's 5.7L.

You can disagree all you want, but it's not an LSx. It's an LQ4. Yes they share a lot of the same fundamental design, but it isn't an LSx, it's an LQ4. As you just stated. You feelin' okay?

Geez someone got their panties in a wad. Generally most people use LSx as an abbreviation for any GenIII or GenIV small block.

The LS1 and LQ4 are GenIII small blocks.

The LS3 and L76 are GenIV small blocks. The L76/L92/LS3 all use the same heads.

The LS1 and LQ4 have more in common than a LS1 and LS3.

All of these 3 letter engine codes are the RPO codes given by GM.

To add more to the confusion there is an actual LSX which is iron block version of the LS7.


Check out the LSx shootout - http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/lsx/

You think people with LQ4,LQ9,L76,L92s etc. are not going to be able to enter because the RPO code of their motor doesn't begin with LS?

http://www.fasteststreetcar.co.../2009/lsx_allmotor.pdf

No panties wadded here. Is an LQ motor similar to the LS in a number of ways? Yes. Is it accepted and discussed in the same circles? Yes.

Is an LQ motor the same as an LS motor? No. It's an LQ.

What's so hard to understand?

Straight from wiki...

The LS series is a new design intended as the only V-8 engine utilized in General Motors' line of RWD cars and trucks. The LS series was a clean sheet design with little in common with the classic Chevrolet small block V8. The LS is all-aluminum and has 6-bolt main bearing caps.

The LS engine has been the sole powerplant of the Chevrolet Corvette since 1997 and has seen use in a wide variety of other General Motors vehicles, ranging from sport coupes to full size trucks. Due to the engine's relatively compact external dimensions compared to its displacement and power output, the engine family is also a popular choice for kit cars, hot rods, buggies, and even light aircraft.

The engine blocks were cast in aluminum for car applications, and iron for most truck applications (notable exceptions include the Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS, Chevrolet SSR and a limited run of Chevrolet/GMC Extended Cab Standard Box Z71 Trucks).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine

http://www.enginebuildermag.co...m_lsseries_engine.aspx

The Gen III engine (and subsequent next generation Gen IV) family consists of a wide variety of V8 engines, ranging from the 5.3L LS4 to the 7.0L LS7 in automobile configurations and Vortec 4.8L to L92 6.2L truck engines. They all have significant differences, but they also have similarities that follow along throughout the limbs of the family tree. For that reason, it?s often easier to refer to the whole bunch as the LS engine family.

That just the first two links I found... so I don't think I'm alone in saying GenIII and GenIV small blocks are referred to as LS series engines.

Pwned.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: joutlaw

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joutlaw

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: joutlaw
I disagree that the LQ4 isn't an LSx.

The LM7, LQ4, LQ9, LS1 etc. all use the same basic engine design and are of the LSx family.

The truck motors LM7, LQ4, LQ9 use iron blocks. The LM7 (5.3L) does have a aluminum variant that has been put in GMC Envoys and full size trucks.

A lot of the 5.3s even have been paired with LS1 heads (243 casting number I believe). So if you had an aluminum block 5.3L with 243 heads... you essential had a 5.3L LS1 minus the cam.

A lot of people go with the LQ4 and LQ9 motors if they want to run NO2 or boost. They are also signficantly cheaper than LS1s and you get more displacement at 6.0L versus the LS1's 5.7L.

You can disagree all you want, but it's not an LSx. It's an LQ4. Yes they share a lot of the same fundamental design, but it isn't an LSx, it's an LQ4. As you just stated. You feelin' okay?

Geez someone got their panties in a wad. Generally most people use LSx as an abbreviation for any GenIII or GenIV small block.

The LS1 and LQ4 are GenIII small blocks.

The LS3 and L76 are GenIV small blocks. The L76/L92/LS3 all use the same heads.

The LS1 and LQ4 have more in common than a LS1 and LS3.

All of these 3 letter engine codes are the RPO codes given by GM.

To add more to the confusion there is an actual LSX which is iron block version of the LS7.


Check out the LSx shootout - http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/lsx/

You think people with LQ4,LQ9,L76,L92s etc. are not going to be able to enter because the RPO code of their motor doesn't begin with LS?

http://www.fasteststreetcar.co.../2009/lsx_allmotor.pdf

No panties wadded here. Is an LQ motor similar to the LS in a number of ways? Yes. Is it accepted and discussed in the same circles? Yes.

Is an LQ motor the same as an LS motor? No. It's an LQ.

What's so hard to understand?

Straight from wiki...

The LS series is a new design intended as the only V-8 engine utilized in General Motors' line of RWD cars and trucks. The LS series was a clean sheet design with little in common with the classic Chevrolet small block V8. The LS is all-aluminum and has 6-bolt main bearing caps.

The LS engine has been the sole powerplant of the Chevrolet Corvette since 1997 and has seen use in a wide variety of other General Motors vehicles, ranging from sport coupes to full size trucks. Due to the engine's relatively compact external dimensions compared to its displacement and power output, the engine family is also a popular choice for kit cars, hot rods, buggies, and even light aircraft.

The engine blocks were cast in aluminum for car applications, and iron for most truck applications (notable exceptions include the Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS, Chevrolet SSR and a limited run of Chevrolet/GMC Extended Cab Standard Box Z71 Trucks).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine

http://www.enginebuildermag.co...m_lsseries_engine.aspx

The Gen III engine (and subsequent next generation Gen IV) family consists of a wide variety of V8 engines, ranging from the 5.3L LS4 to the 7.0L LS7 in automobile configurations and Vortec 4.8L to L92 6.2L truck engines. They all have significant differences, but they also have similarities that follow along throughout the limbs of the family tree. For that reason, it?s often easier to refer to the whole bunch as the LS engine family.

That just the first two links I found... so I don't think I'm alone in saying GenIII and GenIV small blocks are referred to as LS series engines.

Hey buddy - the LQ4 isn't mentioned in that "GM LS Engine" article on wikipedia. (Now don't go adding it in there on your own.)

In fact, since we are referencing the uber-reliable Wikipedia, it is fair to point out the LQ4 is listed on the GM Vortec Engine page.

That is what we are talking about right? Oh yes:

Originally posted by: joutlaw
I disagree that the LQ4 isn't an LSx.

Either way, I never said they weren't referred to as LS Series. They sure are. And everyone who says it would be wrong. As I said:

Is it accepted and discussed in the same circles? Yes.

And still, wrong. Just in case I wasn't clear.

The bottom line is that all these motors are based on the GM Gen III or Gen IV small block V8 platform. But the LS motors are generally different in a number of ways from the others, and between that and the fact that the names are different, your previous statement is incorrect no matter how you want to argue it.

Originally posted by: joutlaw
I disagree that the LQ4 isn't an LSx.

Can we move on now?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: Xandax
Figured I'd clear a few things up about the builder and this build:

<snip>

It is just RWD, he wanted another toy so he built himself one. As you can see he is going for unique and doesn't really care what anyone else is doing or thinks. Miata/RX-7 v8 swaps are common now, why not go with another surprise like the Civette...

If you think he is doing it to make the car faster, handle better, ruin the Subaru image... he isn't. He's doing what he loves, he knows LS motors quite well, so he's just making a toy, end of story.

If he doesn't care what other people think, why are you on here playing Mommy?

And the fart can/diesel tip/wtfever is stupid looking, no matter what it sounds like.

Congrats on the dude doing what he wants, but maybe he should come out here and have a friendly chat? I'm sure we'd all love to hear about the build :thumbsup:

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
If he doesn't care what other people think, why are you on here playing Mommy?

And the fart can/diesel tip/wtfever is stupid looking, no matter what it sounds like.

Congrats on the dude doing what he wants, but maybe he should come out here and have a friendly chat? I'm sure we'd all love to hear about the build :thumbsup:

True, the fact that he's out $5600 including the car is pretty amazing. For that budget I can forgive a TON of things. That's chump change for the fun factor. If he had gone out and done that to a perfect WRX and bought a crate motors, etc... well, you can argue that. But when you're talking making a fun runner on a pork and beans budget, that's cool.

 

[Civette]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: Xandax
Figured I'd clear a few things up about the builder and this build:

<snip>

It is just RWD, he wanted another toy so he built himself one. As you can see he is going for unique and doesn't really care what anyone else is doing or thinks. Miata/RX-7 v8 swaps are common now, why not go with another surprise like the Civette...

If you think he is doing it to make the car faster, handle better, ruin the Subaru image... he isn't. He's doing what he loves, he knows LS motors quite well, so he's just making a toy, end of story.

If he doesn't care what other people think, why are you on here playing Mommy?

And the fart can/diesel tip/wtfever is stupid looking, no matter what it sounds like.

Congrats on the dude doing what he wants, but maybe he should come out here and have a friendly chat? I'm sure we'd all love to hear about the build :thumbsup:

ok im here.....what you want to ask? lol

 

[AdamK47]

I'd like to ask what are you going on this computer geek forum?

 

[MBrown]

Is it still AWD?

 

[Civette]

Originally posted by: AdamK47
I'd like to ask what are you going on this computer geek forum?

google works wonders lol

 

[Civette]

Originally posted by: MBrown
Is it still AWD?

nope

 

[MikeMike]

damn, AT threw down an offer, and then reneged... stop being cowards and ask the man.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Civette

ok im here.....what you want to ask? lol

Haha, if that's really you, welcome I'm one of many who followed the build progress of the Civette and remember seeing the LS-WRX in its very early stages. They're both awesome and interesting pieces of work. Do you have any other projects planned?

 

[Civette]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: Civette

ok im here.....what you want to ask? lol

Haha, if that's really you, welcome I'm one of many who followed the build progress of the Civette and remember seeing the LS-WRX in its very early stages. They're both awesome and interesting pieces of work. Do you have any other projects planned?

lsx powered 06 RSX type s tube frame (mine)

ls3 s2000 (friends car)

lq9 s2000 (friends car)

95 supra- Turbo Viper swap (friends car)

Mazda RX-8 LS7 swap (mine)

 

[Demon-Xanth]

That LS3 S2000 is going to be fun.

 

[fbrdphreak]

If you can get that RX-8 to put hold the power to the ground, it should be a fun ride. Ditch that POS rotary.

Given your experience with these systems, what would be needed to keep one of these WRX/Evo/etc swaps AWD? I realize the LSx motors put out a shit-ton more torque instantly, compared to the relatively slow build-up in torque of the turbo motors. But how f-ing awesome would it be to have an AWD LSx in a sporty car?

You know anything about the Trailblazer SS' AWD system? I'm sure its too big and heavy for something like a WRX, but just a thought.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Civette
lsx powered 06 RSX type s tube frame (mine)

ls3 s2000 (friends car)

lq9 s2000 (friends car)

95 supra- Turbo Viper swap (friends car)

Mazda RX-8 LS7 swap (mine)

:Q

My god! Are any of these under way? Got any pics? All of them sound amazing, especially that Supra...