hmm...doesn't appear to be a natural change at all

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
ill be dead by the time it does anything, im on this earth once, and i will live it how i want to.

A fine post on how Democracy is a very flawed system for managing issues like global climate change. Ignorance, weak use of humor to replace any good sense. Well done.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Tequila

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Evadman
I don't know about you, but it was freaking cold this summer in the Midwest. where's my global warming? I went out side and sprayed a bunch of hair spray hoping to raise the temp, but it didn't do anything besides make my grass sticky

A fine post on how Democracy is a very flawed system for managing issues like global climate change. Ignorance, weak use of humor to replace any good sense. Well done.

Lol. Yes, a communist country like China is much better at managing these issues. Oh wait, they recently surpassed the US in total carbon emessions.

I guess socialist Europe would be better then? Oops they are #3 on the list.

Just to piss you off I'd like to jump in say this has been the mildest summer I've ever experienced in the Bay Area. Hell, most of June was cloudy, overcast and cool. August felt more like May. So far September has been a bit warm and muggy but nothing harsh.

There's a funny taste in my mouth. One sec while I spit it out and see what it is.

Oh, besides the Godiva chocolate, whihch went back in, it's your words.

I never praised China in any way - not for their form of government nor for their good economic policies. So all we have is your transparent straw man left.

I didn't comment on Europe either (which you inaccurately call socialist Europe). If they're screwing up, we should look at why - it may or may not be the same as the poster above.

But whatever anyone else does, my point remains about that poster's comments, that the theory of democracy for an informed and rational citizenry to choose good polices, failed.

Tiny anecdotal experience like this summer in the bay area are not meaningful for the topic at hand, but oh by the way, I live in the bay area. IMO it's an average summer.

 

[Tequila]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Tequila

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Evadman
I don't know about you, but it was freaking cold this summer in the Midwest. where's my global warming? I went out side and sprayed a bunch of hair spray hoping to raise the temp, but it didn't do anything besides make my grass sticky

A fine post on how Democracy is a very flawed system for managing issues like global climate change. Ignorance, weak use of humor to replace any good sense. Well done.

Lol. Yes, a communist country like China is much better at managing these issues. Oh wait, they recently surpassed the US in total carbon emessions.

I guess socialist Europe would be better then? Oops they are #3 on the list.

Just to piss you off I'd like to jump in say this has been the mildest summer I've ever experienced in the Bay Area. Hell, most of June was cloudy, overcast and cool. August felt more like May. So far September has been a bit warm and muggy but nothing harsh.

There's a funny taste in my mouth. One sec while I spit it out and see what it is.

Oh, besides the Godiva chocolate, whihch went back in, it's your words.

Not surprising. My bitter words of reality tend to do that to people.

I never praised China in any way - not for their form of government nor for their good economic policies. So all we have is your transparent straw man left.

I never said you praised China. I just pointed out that the #1 polluter in the world is not a democracy.

I didn't comment on Europe either (which you inaccurately call socialist Europe). If they're screwing up, we should look at why - it may or may not be the same as the poster above.

How is Europe not socialist? Btw, I've been to Germany 3 times and to Sweden once and I loved it there. I have nothing against socialist Europe.

But whatever anyone else does, my point remains about that poster's comments, that the theory of democracy for an informed and rational citizenry to choose good polices, failed.

Which is an incredibly weak argument. Please enlighten us with more details.

Tiny anecdotal experience like this summer in the bay area are not meaningful for the topic at hand, but oh by the way, I live in the bay area. IMO it's an average summer.

Average? Are you serious? We usually have several days in the 100s. I've never in the 18 years I've been here a June like we had this year. Nothing average about any of it.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Can't wait to hear all of the

'it's the sun'

'man is arrogant to think he can impact the climate'

'doesn't matter'

bs replies


this story/graph - while not proof in and of itself, seems to refute many of the anti GW folks

interesting read

LINKY

Well then maybe we should be championing global warming if it delayed an ice age. How in the world could anyone wish for an ice age?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Tequila

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Tequila

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Evadman
I don't know about you, but it was freaking cold this summer in the Midwest. where's my global warming? I went out side and sprayed a bunch of hair spray hoping to raise the temp, but it didn't do anything besides make my grass sticky

A fine post on how Democracy is a very flawed system for managing issues like global climate change. Ignorance, weak use of humor to replace any good sense. Well done.

Lol. Yes, a communist country like China is much better at managing these issues. Oh wait, they recently surpassed the US in total carbon emessions.

I guess socialist Europe would be better then? Oops they are #3 on the list.

Just to piss you off I'd like to jump in say this has been the mildest summer I've ever experienced in the Bay Area. Hell, most of June was cloudy, overcast and cool. August felt more like May. So far September has been a bit warm and muggy but nothing harsh.

There's a funny taste in my mouth. One sec while I spit it out and see what it is.

Oh, besides the Godiva chocolate, whihch went back in, it's your words.

Not surprising. My bitter words of reality tend to do that to people.

I never praised China in any way - not for their form of government nor for their good economic policies. So all we have is your transparent straw man left.

I never said you praised China. I just pointed out that the #1 polluter in the world is not a democracy.

I didn't comment on Europe either (which you inaccurately call socialist Europe). If they're screwing up, we should look at why - it may or may not be the same as the poster above.

How is Europe not socialist? Btw, I've been to Germany 3 times and to Sweden once and I loved it there. I have nothing against socialist Europe.

But whatever anyone else does, my point remains about that poster's comments, that the theory of democracy for an informed and rational citizenry to choose good polices, failed.

Which is an incredibly weak argument. Please enlighten us with more details.

Tiny anecdotal experience like this summer in the bay area are not meaningful for the topic at hand, but oh by the way, I live in the bay area. IMO it's an average summer.

Average? Are you serious? We usually have several days in the 100s. I've never in the 18 years I've been here a June like we had this year. Nothing average about any of it.

JHC now you've done it. He's either going to write a book in response to you or he's going to give you some kind of "of the week" award.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: shira
You are incredibly brilliant. Obviously, the scientists who performed this analysis didn't realize that it's been only 15 years. And none of the peer-review scientists were aware of that either.

So these results can just be discarded, because - obviously - the scientists didn't take the short time period into account. They're just really stupid. Same goes for ANY study that concludes that mankind's activity over the last 20, 40, 80, or even 100 years could have a major effect on climate. Even 100 years is far too short a time period compared to the age of the Earth. So, obviously, it's IMPOSSIBLE to determine that human activity over such a short geologic time period could be the cause for signficant climate change.

Thus, we can ignore every study that concludes otherwise.

I'm convinced!!!

If you think the shallow time scale convinces you, wait until you take into account that these temperatures are ALL within the natural variability that we've seen in the past 12,000 years.

 

[Tequila]

Originally posted by: JD50
[
JHC now you've done it. He's either going to write a book in response to you or he's going to give you some kind of "of the week" award.

That's ok. I'm freshly stocked on Jose Cuervo Gold. Plus I love awards!

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Tequila

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
why do people assume that 1 cool summer means there isn't global warming?

Let's go back to the 70s when everyone was talking about Global Cooling. Back in 75-76 I experienced two of the most brutal summers on record in Michigan. We had nearly 3 weeks of 100+ temperatures in 76. My family still remembers those awful summers to this day. I never experienced anything like that since then during my time growing up there. I bet the Global Cooling freaks would have said to me "why do people assume that 2 hot summers means there isn't global cooling?"

Climate patterns change unpredictably no matter if we humans are here or not. Yes, we should all do our part to recycle, waste less and use less energy. I do my part as best as possible. I just get so sick and tired of people blaming Global Warming on everything and make it sound like the world is going to end tomorrow.

Global cooling was a conjecture during the 1970s of imminent cooling of the Earth's surface and atmosphere along with a posited commencement of glaciation. This hypothesis never had significant scientific support, but gained temporary popular attention due to a combination of press reports that did not accurately reflect the scientific understanding of ice age cycles

Text

Text

cliffs: global cooling was the result of greater particulate matter in the atmosphere, which have a demonstrable effect on temperatures. Inspite of this continued effect, temperatures are increasing.

 

[dammitgibs]

http://news.nationalgeographic...0228-mars-warming.html

Also from the National Geographic

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

 

[Ozoned]

I have always been intrigued by the vastness of coal deposits, and how they were formed, and what the conditions were like for the 10's of 1000's of years it took to form them, and the vast amount of co2 that was scrubbed from the atmosphere while they were being formed, and where that co2 came from.

We haven't put it all back into the atmosphere yet. Maybe we are the solution,,,, and not the problem...

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: shira
You are incredibly brilliant. Obviously, the scientists who performed this analysis didn't realize that it's been only 15 years. And none of the peer-review scientists were aware of that either.

So these results can just be discarded, because - obviously - the scientists didn't take the short time period into account. They're just really stupid. Same goes for ANY study that concludes that mankind's activity over the last 20, 40, 80, or even 100 years could have a major effect on climate. Even 100 years is far too short a time period compared to the age of the Earth. So, obviously, it's IMPOSSIBLE to determine that human activity over such a short geologic time period could be the cause for signficant climate change.

Thus, we can ignore every study that concludes otherwise.

I'm convinced!!!

If you think the shallow time scale convinces you, wait until you take into account that these temperatures are ALL within the natural variability that we've seen in the past 12,000 years.

Again, you are brilliant. Obviously, no reputable scientist has every considered what you're alleging. Your words are a powerful laser beam. No climatologist can possibly believe that the variations in temperatures seen the past few decades are anything other than natural temperature variation.

How can all those thousands of climatologists with their PhD's all be so stupid? How can a single person like you be so much smarter than all those idiot climatologists.

Really, it's SO obvious.

 

[Lemon law]

To start with, go back to the graph in the link, the sharp upward spike started a lot earlier than 1990. If we can't read a damn graph on the X scale, how can we expect to make a valid conclusions.

As for the second idiot with the bottle of hair spray, that example is so lame its hardly funny. The issue is not local temperatures, its average global temperatures. With the other conclusion being, we simply do not yet have the climate models yet to accurately predict the effects of global warming. Simply because the existing models predict far more warming at the middle latitudes that are now observed and far less warming at upper latitudes than are now observed.

As for the idiot who observes things are better off hot, I will give him the hot of death valley that cannot grow a weed to eat. The point being, we are also playing not only with temperatures, we are playing with rainfall patterns. With even the short run 5000 yrs. of human history being littered with civilizations that rose and then fell when the blessed rain went away for extended periods of time.

Only a total idiot or a lobbyist with a financial interest to tout can deny that unprecedented things are not going on. Especially with the last few years of reduced sunspots still resulting in an increases in arctic and antarctic ice melting.

And if you want to comment, at least learn to read graphs and be half way up to speed on the issues. I will be the first to concede that the science of global warming is far from perfect and that the science needs to improve, which will takes decades at a minimum to get perceptible better, but we still have to make decisions on the knowledge we have, because if we wait to long, we may have doomed ourselves by hitting some irreversible tipping point.

 

[NeoV]

"http://news.nationalgeographic...0228-mars-warming.html

Also from the National Geographic

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says "

Did you even read the article you linked? ""His views are completely at odds with the mainstream scientific opinion," said Colin Wilson, a planetary physicist at England's Oxford University. "

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
why do people assume that 1 cool summer means there isn't global warming?

The cooling pattern has been ongoing for several years with the return of record snows and low temperatures. This summer appears to indicate that it is deepening.

 

[BudAshes]

So basically you are saying we kicked the weathers ass? GO AMERICA!

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: shira
Again, you are brilliant. Obviously, no reputable scientist has every considered what you're alleging. Your words are a powerful laser beam. No climatologist can possibly believe that the variations in temperatures seen the past few decades are anything other than natural temperature variation.

You dare refute this? Let me restate the facts for you.

1: The chart in the OP shows a variance of 1-2°C.

2:

Little Ice Age
In the North Atlantic, sediments accumulated since the end of the last ice age, nearly 12,000 years ago, show regular increases in the amount of coarse sediment grains deposited from icebergs melting in the now open ocean, indicating a series of 1-2°C (2-4°F) cooling events recurring every 1,500 years or so (Bond et al., 1997). The most recent of these cooling events was the Little Ice Age. These same cooling events are detected in sediments accumulating off Africa, but the cooling events appear to be larger, ranging between 3-8°C (6-14°F).[39]

Ergo, the so called evidence of MMGW in the OP is not beyond natural bounds seen multiple times before.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
why do people assume that 1 cool summer means there isn't global warming?

The cooling pattern has been ongoing for several years with the return of record snows and low temperatures. This summer appears to indicate that it is deepening.

jaskalas the internationally reknowned climatologist at work here folks. I bet he went over tons of data to come to this conclusion.

 

[Vic]

I should be upset because the next ice age has been delayed by global warming?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: shira
Again, you are brilliant. Obviously, no reputable scientist has every considered what you're alleging. Your words are a powerful laser beam. No climatologist can possibly believe that the variations in temperatures seen the past few decades are anything other than natural temperature variation.

You dare refute this? Let me restate the facts for you.

1: The chart in the OP shows a variance of 1-2°C.

2:

Little Ice Age
In the North Atlantic, sediments accumulated since the end of the last ice age, nearly 12,000 years ago, show regular increases in the amount of coarse sediment grains deposited from icebergs melting in the now open ocean, indicating a series of 1-2°C (2-4°F) cooling events recurring every 1,500 years or so (Bond et al., 1997). The most recent of these cooling events was the Little Ice Age. These same cooling events are detected in sediments accumulating off Africa, but the cooling events appear to be larger, ranging between 3-8°C (6-14°F).[39]

Ergo, the so called evidence of MMGW in the OP is not beyond natural bounds seen multiple times before.

Outstanding point! I continue to be bewildered how the THOUSANDS OF CLIMATOLOGISTS WHO ARE SEEING EXACTLY THE SAME INFORMATION THAT YOU ARE AND WHO ALL HAVE PhDs AND EXTENSIVE TRAINING IN HOW TO PROPERLY PERFORM CONTROLLED STUDIES can continue to believe their nonsensical conclusions.

You, sir, have shed a brilliant light on the matter. SOMEHOW, YOUR OBSERVATION HAS BEEN OVERLOOKED BY THE ENTIRE CLIMATOLOGICAL COMMUNITY UNTIL NOW, SINCE - OBVIOUSLY - IF THEY WERE AWARE OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, THEY COULD NOT POSSIBLY CONTINUE TO PROMULGATE MAN-MADE CLIMATE CHANGE AS A VIABLE THEORY. I'll immediately write to the Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology and reveal your grounbraking observation. Soon, we will hear a collective, "Never mind!" and anthropogenic climate change will be discarded on the dust bin of history.

 

[Jaskalas]

I am enjoying that you are incapable of refuting the facts and instead issue post after post of attacking the messenger.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Vic
I should be upset because the next ice age has been delayed by global warming?

hahahahah great way to look at it. global warming is keeping us safe! and you want us to stop sowe can freeze to death? wft!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
why do people assume that 1 cool summer means there isn't global warming?

Easy, when you have a pea for a brain and don't believe in science.

Same goes for those that voted for Bush a second time.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
why do people assume that 1 cool summer means there isn't global warming?

Easy, when you have a pea for a brain and don't believe in science.

Same goes for those that voted for Bush a second time.

Palin/Romney FTW

 

[kitkat22]

I love how we have now transitioned from global warming to climate change. The fact of the matter is the climate is changing, it always has and will continue to change whether man is a part of it or not. Change is part of nature, the same with evolution and adaptation. Man and the animal kingdom will adapt to the changes in climate that they always have done for the past thousands of years. Some locations will become wetter and others will be dryer. In some places storm intensity will increase others will decrease. Get used to it! Now, don't get me wrong, we have a responsibility to conserve and protect the world that is ours, however, going around with the alarmist attitude that the sky is falling is not going to accomplish anything and at best will waste billions of dollars and actually may cause more harm than good.

This study has an agenda, is not peer-reviewed, is alarmist, and is picky-and-choosy with the data to make a point. I'm sorry, this is not going to convince anyone. How about instead of trying to prove we are doing something wrong, why don't we spend all that money on how we can do things right, huh? Like providing water to the billions on this earth, or coming up with better sources of energy, or finding ways to remove all the pollutants in the air, water and earth?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I am enjoying that you are incapable of refuting the facts and instead issue post after post of attacking the messenger.

I'm refuting your facts by surrogate.

Neither you nor I are trained climatologists. Neither your nor are are remotely in a position to intelligently evaluate whether a particular study means anything in the scheme of things. I have a lot of knowledge in physics, but I know my limits, and even I would NEVER consider reading an article about, say, quantum entanglement and pronouncing, "That cannot be true, because it's not possible for objects separated by billions of light years to instantaneously know their mutual states."

What I DO know is that thousands upon thousands of very intelligent people who know a hell of a lot more than you or I do about climatology are NOT overlooking the so-called point you're making. Yet in the face of this "fact," they are not abandoning the consensus that man-made climate change is real and significant.

That YOU think your utter lack of knowledge, combined with your observation, puts you in a position to judge whether a particular study's conclusion is valid is therefore laughable.