HL2 screenshot differences

[nRollo]

First, I'd like to say that I retract my not caring about HL2 after seeing the screenshots in this article. Looks pretty awesome.
Second, I also wouldn't sell a 5900 at a loss to get the difference between DX8.1 and DX9 showed in these screenshots. Yes, it's a little better, but it wouldn't be worth my hard earned money. I'd forget about running this in DX9, force it DX8.1 (if possible) and wait for the nV40/R400 and see which of those is proclaimed savior of us all.

Oops, my bad:

In fact, Valve tells us that Half-Life 2 will default DirectX 8.1 mode for NV3x hardware based on its lack of performance under true DX9.

My $.02

Significant (?) DX9 improvements

 

[Bregor]

Check out this quote from the Beyond3d Forums:

Hi guys, OK, I've only just got back home in the UK from Shader day and am beginning to catch up on the aftermath of Gabes statements. I've not read all this thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I see that NVIDIA are suggesting using PS1.4 for many effects and there will be limited visual difference. There is a problem with this though. Whilst Valve were there they displayed that they had implemented higher dynamic range into the engine. HDR will be available in the game to those that support its requirements, however it is not currently implemented in the benchmark. HDR needs the a higher range, and PS1.4 only has -8, 8 range which is probably not enough - the HDR effects also require float buffers which none of the current NVIDIA drivers support. There is also dramatic visual differences between HDR being enabled and disabled. HDR is currently not in the benchmark mode because NVIDIA don't support float buffers at the moment and the benchmark was designed to render equally on all systems.

So some of the nicest eye candy, the high dynamic range lighting, isn't even present in the HL2 benchmark for you to make comparisons with- and will definitely be missing for any card forced to run in DX 8.1 mode.

 

[kylebisme]

lol, seems a bit silly to make image qality comparisons from a few extreemely compressed jpg shots of one boring wall.

 

[Pete]

Agreed, but you can already see what appears to be range differences in the screenshots of PS1.4 and PS2.0, which otherwise renders the water exactly the same (as opposed to PS1.1, which renders the water slightly differently, perhaps due to multipass).

 

[Rage187]

LOL if the only difference is water reflection, who cares?

Does the whole game take place in and around water?

 

[Insomniak]

The only difference I can see in these shots is in the water reflection. The bump mapping on the walls and texture clarity are the same through DX8, 8.1, and 9.0

As a matter of fact, the 8.1 shot seems to have slightly crisper textures than the other two.

As for the much touted HDRL, who cares? You think I'm going to shell out 350$ + for overbright and some slightly better specular mapping? No thanks. It's not that impressive. In fact, I don't find it that impressive at all. I'll be fine with DX8.1 sunlighting.

Bottom line, I can get 95% of the graphical bells and whistles using my GeForce 4 Ti, and I plan to do just that. There are a few more pretties to be had with DX9, but not hundreds of dollars worth more.

Additionally, IMO, the water reflections are worse with DX9. Note the reflection of the rock that is front and center in these shots. It's reflected much too brightly in the DX9 shot. Looks rather out of place if you ask me.

 

[Mingon]

In all honesty the eye candy is good, but if the game sucks who cares. How many times have their been good looking games with bad gameplay? I personally dont notice the graphics that much when playing - if it is a good game.

 

[Schadenfroh]

i still think doom3 looks better................

 

[nRollo]

Agreed on Doom3.
As for the "one jpg of wall" comment, fair enough, but it will be interesting to see the difference. I have a 9800 Pro, if this game can be forced to run 8.1, I'm going to be VERY interested to see the differences some here seem to feel marks the end of nVidia.

As for me, as I said, most of my games are OGl.

 

[stardust]

Now this makes me wonder why 3dmark's Nature demo couldn't be run with PS1.4 directx8.1 cards...

If setting the game to directx8.1 helps running it at 1200x1000 res with AA/AF then i'd be more than happy to. Those screenshots had no AA/AF. That reminded me of the horrible images of tree branches and cables that were created when no filtering was used.

 

[Rage187]

If I had a 9800 I would probably run it in 8.1b just for the speed increase.

 

[oldfart]

I think it is hard to tell the difference with screenshots. You need to see the game in motion to see the effects. I read that there will be a new version of the tech temo in DX8.0 or 8.1 mode for comparison.

 

[nRollo]

If I had a 9800 I would probably run it in 8.1b just for the speed increase.

You've got a point there. If I can't run it at 8X16X high resolution, it's just not worth playing and "butt ugly" according to some.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

If this is what everyone's been bitching about "needing a DX9 card" for, I'm going to start killing people.

- M4H

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
If this is what everyone's been bitching about "needing a DX9 card" for, I'm going to start killing people.

- M4H

i am going to have to agree, i have sat the last 2 generations of video cards out. i will probably sit another one out

 

[rachaelsdad]

NM

 

[nRollo]

If this is what everyone's been bitching about "needing a DX9 card" for, I'm going to start killing people.

No! STFU! Running HL2 in DX8.1 will be "butt ugly" and you'd have to be "blind as a green nVidia bat" not to see the HUGE differences! We're trying to sell DX9 cards here! Keep it quiet about the "subtle" differences!

LOL

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: Rollo

If this is what everyone's been bitching about "needing a DX9 card" for, I'm going to start killing people.

No! STFU! Running HL2 in DX8.1 will be "butt ugly" and you'd have to be "blind as a green nVidia bat" not to see the HUGE differences! We're trying to sell DX9 cards here! Keep it quiet about the "subtle" differences!

LOL

Yeah, DX9 is a waste. We should all just go back to DX7, 640 x 480 16 bit color. I dont know why people are so interested in technology and visual quality moving forward.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: oldfart

Originally posted by: Rollo

If this is what everyone's been bitching about "needing a DX9 card" for, I'm going to start killing people.

No! STFU! Running HL2 in DX8.1 will be "butt ugly" and you'd have to be "blind as a green nVidia bat" not to see the HUGE differences! We're trying to sell DX9 cards here! Keep it quiet about the "subtle" differences!

LOL

Yeah, DX9 is a waste. We should all just go back to DX7, 640 x 480 16 bit color. I dont know why people are so interested in technology and visual quality moving forward.

heh

 

[Corporate Thug]

in all honesty that screen shot doesnt do dx9/ps2 justice. i think a nice shout of the outside environment would do better

 

[oldfart]

This is not that hard. You need to see the game in motion. Screenshots wont show very much. We wont really see the difference until the actual game comes out and we can play it.

 

[nRollo]

DX9 is a waste. We should all just go back to DX7, 640 x 480 16 bit color. I dont know why people are so interested in technology and visual quality moving forward.

I see you're familiar with hyperbole Old Fart. Personally, I don't care if "DX" goes away forever, at least as far as graphics go. Carmack has always had the best game engines with OpenGL, from the looks of the Doom 3 movie/screens, he still does.

In any case, I said those subtle differences wouldn't be worth selling a 5900 at a big loss to me, but maybe money means less to you that you buy video cards just to have brighter water. I work for a living, can't see wasting the money for piddly differences like that. We've already seen a poster say he can't tell the difference between 8.1 and 9 in Tomb Raider, but I suppose the DX 9 thing does give you something to put down fellow gamers for.

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: Rollo

DX9 is a waste. We should all just go back to DX7, 640 x 480 16 bit color. I dont know why people are so interested in technology and visual quality moving forward.

I see you're familiar with hyperbole Old Fart. Personally, I don't care if "DX" goes away forever, at least as far as graphics go. Carmack has always had the best game engines with OpenGL, from the looks of the Doom 3 movie/screens, he still does.

In any case, I said those subtle differences wouldn't be worth selling a 5900 at a big loss to me, but maybe money means less to you that you buy video cards just to have brighter water. I work for a living, can't see wasting the money for piddly differences like that. We've already seen a poster say he can't tell the difference between 8.1 and 9 in Tomb Raider, but I suppose the DX 9 thing does give you something to put down fellow gamers for.

I also prefer OpenGL to DX.... Carmack makes good engines, fairly average games. The best Q3 engine game was RTCW IMHO (very good game!) I dont buy a game because it is DX or OpenGL, or if it is particularly pretty. Good gameplay is where it is at. Take Unreal 2. Very nice graphics. As fun to play as watching paint dry.

I'll judge for myself how DX9 vs DX8.1 looks when I get the game. Maybe before that if the bench demo on the 30th has the capability. Screenshots are not gonna show it. To just fluff off DX9 as not being any better than DX8 is ridiculous. How about actually trying it first??

Your "put down" comment is typical of the nonsense you like to inject into these threads that as usual, have nothing to do with anything. Who is putting down anyone? Why do you always stoop to this junk?

I would not advise anyone to sell any video card to play the game. If you have an up to date card and are happy with it, great! Play the game and enjoy it!

However, there are a lot of people looking for a new card. How many "which card to get" posts are there? If someone is looking for a new card. ATi is clearly way ahead of any current nVidia offering. They both can play OpenGL and DX8 games just fine. This is not the case with DX9. There are several DX9 games on the way, and I cant see how someone could in good faith recommend a card that is not DX9 compliant and is known to have serious performance issues. The reduced quality drivers that go with it just make it worse.

 

[Goi]

Originally posted by: Rage187
If I had a 9800 I would probably run it in 8.1b just for the speed increase.

Well according to the benchmarks the 9800 Pro incurs no performance hit going from DX8.x to DX9, so I wouldn't bother.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

I haven't read all the replies, but remember, water isn't the only play you'll notice DX 9 quality and from one screenshot, you can't decide. You'll have to see other aspects of the game too.