• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Hizballah threatens Israel

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
1
76
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I somewhat disagree on a number of points.

1. Its all well and fine to wish a plague on both houses, but the point being, its beyond stupid to pretend either group will cease to exist, and maybe even more absurd to pretend to the Israeli or Hezbollah goal is to exterminate each other.

2. The current reality is that Hezbollah is the first near Israeli near neighbor to achieve limited self defense capabilities against Israeli aggression. And by limited, I mean on the ground, total Israeli hegemony still exists from the air. But the point being, a decade ago, one Israeli tank could go from the Southern Border of Lebanon to to its Northern border without meeting any significant opposition. Not only is that no longer true, what is true is that Hezbollah still has zero defense against the Israeli air force.
While the Israeli air force can't be effective in breaking Hezbollah ground based self defense capability.

3. Its now time to revive the ghost of the still not debunked Seymour Hersch contention, namely that the 2005 Israeli incursion into Lebanon was a Dick Cheney based brainfart based on three things. (1) An incident was needed to justify it, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier would do, but there were no shortage of such incidents on all sides so why should that one incident justify it all? The other point being, Israeli armor was pre put in place a waiting any incident and ready to go at an instants notice. (2) Dick Cheney regarded it as a dress rehearsal for a US invasion of Iran, the terrain was similar and if Israeli tanks could sweep all opposition aside, surely more US tanks could do the same in Iran. (3) Given the then minority popularity of Hezbollah in Lebanon, at that time 25%, Israel would be seen as liberators by the Lebanese people. With the same effect hoped for by Cheney in Iran. ( As we now know it was an epic fail for Cheney on all fronts, Israeli armor became quickly got bogged down as Israel got the shit shocked out of them when they started losing state of the arts tanks. Cheney found the liberator assumption an epic fail as Lebanese popular support of Hezbollah soared to 75%, and even higher than that in the Arab world because they became the shining example. And therefore Iranians would rally around their government also. As a result, Cheney lost face and the US never tried to invade Iran.

4. But as pointed out, Hezbollah learned its lesson too as Israel raped all of Lebanon from the air. And as a result over Hezbollah underestimating the Israeli response, they no longer attack Israel as a maybe desirable balance of power is established. It still does not stop both sides from continuing to build up offensive and defensive capacity, but it does result in desired non aggression.

5. In short, to call this entire thread thesis FOS, Hezbollah is now the least of Israeli worries. And instead, its going to be the rest of the Arab world aping the Hezbollah example that should be the Israeli worry. As we see in the recent Israeli incursion into Gaza, the arms capacity build up has not yet extended into Gaza. But in the fullness of time it likely will. We already know the Gaza borders leak like a sieve, the same will be likely true West Bank, and doubly so if Farah gets the ole heave ho for making no progress as a reward for being Uncle Tom's.

6. In short things do not happen fast in the Mid-east, but the 2005 Israeli incursion into is still a mile stone. What worked for Israel for the first 57 years may be an epic fail in future.
I kinda lost you the moment you depicted Hizballah as a defensive organization. While it might have been true in the past, it should have been dismantled or at least disarmed when Israel left South Lebanon 2000. It's not unlike the Taliban today, radical rogue Muslims who are heavily armed and have their own political agenda.

(1) An incident was needed to justify it, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier would do, but there were no shortage of such incidents on all sides so why should that one incident justify it all?
That itself amazes me, the fact you think Hizballah has the legitimacy to attack Israeli soldiers on Israeli land and not be punished.

The war of 2006 was a rehearsal for the IDF on how to deal with a terrorist organization, as evident in the success of Cast Lead operation and minimal IDF losses. I'm sure the next time would be better for Israel (new active defenses for the armory should be interesting to watch). The only thing Israel did bad in 2006 was not starting with a full scale operation before it did.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
And what amazes me is the following Samur quote, "
Quote:
(1) An incident was needed to justify it, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier would do, but there were no shortage of such incidents on all sides so why should that one incident justify it all?
That itself amazes me, the fact you think Hizballah has the legitimacy to attack Israeli soldiers on Israeli land and not be punished."

And at the same time Israeli fan clubbers think Israel can do anything in the mid-east, on their own land, disputed land , and on totally foreign land while not being punished.

The point being Sammy, its hard to punish Israel when all the opposition has is rocks and bottles, but that is changing and changing inexorably.

Today its still comparatively primitive rockets, but in the foreseeable future terrorists will gain the ability to really hurt Israel. And you are bat shit insane if you think terrorists have NO justifications given past and current Israeli behavior. And that is the one lesson here, despite all Israeli attempts to stop the opposition to their mis deeds, its been the one constant in the entire 61 year existence of Israel. Maybe in a better world, Israel could have been a
a government that treated it Jewish and non Jewish population equally, sadly it did not and still does not, and that too is the base of the conflict.

At the same time I do think Israel has some justifications for some of their policies, but the blank check Israel has enjoyed is already a thing of the past. Lots of wrongs on both sides have already occurred and still occur. In short, when are we going to wise up and reduce the grievances instead of increasing them to bigger and bigger heights?

All sides are going to have to change their behavior or we are heading for a mid-east blood bath Israel cannot win. And if you think things are bad now, just wait, unless things change, its gonna get a hell of a lot worse.

I and many others who are telling you this will not be the of cause it, but its a coming Sammy and anyone who is not totally pro Israeli biased can see it coming. And when it comes, we will ALL be powerless to stop it as total violence will rule the day.
 
Last edited:

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
And what amazes me is the following Samur quote, "
Quote:
(1) An incident was needed to justify it, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier would do, but there were no shortage of such incidents on all sides so why should that one incident justify it all?
That itself amazes me, the fact you think Hizballah has the legitimacy to attack Israeli soldiers on Israeli land and not be punished."

And at the same time Israeli fan clubbers think Israel can do anything in the mid-east, on their own land, disputed land , and on totally foreign land while not being punished.

The point being Sammy, its hard to punish Israel when all the opposition has is rocks and bottles, but that is changing and changing inexorably.

Today its still comparatively primitive rockets, but in the foreseeable future terrorists will gain the ability to really hurt Israel. And you are bat shit insane if you think terrorists have NO justifications given past and current Israeli behavior. And that is the one lesson here, despite all Israeli attempts to stop the opposition to their mis deeds, its been the one constant in the entire 61 year existence of Israel. Maybe in a better world, Israel could have been a
a government that treated it Jewish and non Jewish population equally, sadly it did not and still does not, and that too is the base of the conflict.

At the same time I do think Israel has some justifications for some of their policies, but the blank check Israel has enjoyed is already a thing of the past. Lots of wrongs on both sides have already occurred and still occur. In short, when are we going to wise up and reduce the grievances instead of increasing them to bigger and bigger heights?

All sides are going to have to change their behavior or we are heading for a mid-east blood bath Israel cannot win. And if you think things are bad now, just wait, unless things change, its gonna get a hell of a lot worse.

I and many others who are telling you this will not be the of cause it, but its a coming Sammy and anyone who is not totally pro Israeli biased can see it coming. And when it comes, we will ALL be powerless to stop it as total violence will rule the day.
Israel will stop getting a free pass when there are no terrorist organization attacking her.

As long as she is under attack, retaliation is expected to happen. The world may moan and piss for excessive use; yet when the evidence comes to light that she was attacked, heartfelt (non political) condemnation is hard.

Most any country in the world has had that situation happen to them and also have retaliated in one form or another.

Even the Arab countries have kicked out the Palestinians because of their behavior
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
What does the American support of Israel have with oil? I'm sure the US could hand Israel over to the Arabs for a good chunk of cheap oil if that was their wish. I don't get it, please explain.
Yeah... that made no sense. People on this forum realize the largest exporter of oil to the USA is Canada right? By like a HUGE margin.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
460
126
And what amazes me is the following Samur quote, "
Quote:
(1) An incident was needed to justify it, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier would do, but there were no shortage of such incidents on all sides so why should that one incident justify it all?
That itself amazes me, the fact you think Hizballah has the legitimacy to attack Israeli soldiers on Israeli land and not be punished."

And at the same time Israeli fan clubbers think Israel can do anything in the mid-east, on their own land, disputed land , and on totally foreign land while not being punished.

The point being Sammy, its hard to punish Israel when all the opposition has is rocks and bottles, but that is changing and changing inexorably.

Today its still comparatively primitive rockets, but in the foreseeable future terrorists will gain the ability to really hurt Israel. And you are bat shit insane if you think terrorists have NO justifications given past and current Israeli behavior. And that is the one lesson here, despite all Israeli attempts to stop the opposition to their mis deeds, its been the one constant in the entire 61 year existence of Israel. Maybe in a better world, Israel could have been a
a government that treated it Jewish and non Jewish population equally, sadly it did not and still does not, and that too is the base of the conflict.

At the same time I do think Israel has some justifications for some of their policies, but the blank check Israel has enjoyed is already a thing of the past. Lots of wrongs on both sides have already occurred and still occur. In short, when are we going to wise up and reduce the grievances instead of increasing them to bigger and bigger heights?

All sides are going to have to change their behavior or we are heading for a mid-east blood bath Israel cannot win. And if you think things are bad now, just wait, unless things change, its gonna get a hell of a lot worse.

I and many others who are telling you this will not be the of cause it, but its a coming Sammy and anyone who is not totally pro Israeli biased can see it coming. And when it comes, we will ALL be powerless to stop it as total violence will rule the day.
You're slipping, dude. You totally forgot to reference Dick Cheney or oil at all in that post.

Somehow I don't think Israel would view its many dead soldiers, civilians, women and children as a "blank check". But I suppose if you see the people who blow up markets and schools as the good guys, then it might seem that way. One side tries to minimize civilian casualties, one side tries to cause civilian casualties. The Jewish side gives its Arab citizens the same rights the Jews enjoy; on the Palestinian side the Jews are either armed or dead. Yeah, I can see how the Jews are the problem. Ah, for the good old days when Jews weren't misguided but marched straight into the ovens!
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,942
126
I don't get it, please explain.
honestly nothing would be accomplished by me explaining anything to you. You will never get anything that doesnt go with your belief on this subject. I'm sure you are a very smart person but on this topic you know what you know and to hell with the rest.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
ell me again werepossum, how you are correct here in saying, "one side tries to cause civilian casualties. The Jewish side gives its Arab citizens the same rights the Jews enjoy; on the Palestinian side the Jews are either armed or dead. Yeah, I can see how the Jews are the problem. Ah, for the good old days when Jews weren't misguided but marched straight into the ovens!"

Let me see, Israel really treats its Arab citizens equally. I guess you have never been to east Jerusalem, where Arabs have their property taxes raised through the roof in an effort to force them out. Yep, 180,000 jewish Israelis have forced out 180,000 Arabs. Can Arabs have equal employment rights in Israel, certainly not without Israeli army service they are encouraged not to seek, as for Palestinians now herded into concentration camps and made into third class citizens in the land of their own birth, you are silent.
But I guess you have a point, Israel has not herded them into gas ovens yet, but they might as well of had for all the equality they offer them.

As for the Israelis themselves, yes Hitler and Nazis did that to them, no one advocates that today, but why should we support superior treatment for Jews at the expense of
Arabs and Palestinians?

Its is and remains part of the conflict.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Dear Mr. President Bashar al-Assad,

Please call off your Hezbollah attack dogs or Damaskus will be "cleansed with fire".
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
1
76
ell me again werepossum, how you are correct here in saying, "one side tries to cause civilian casualties. The Jewish side gives its Arab citizens the same rights the Jews enjoy; on the Palestinian side the Jews are either armed or dead. Yeah, I can see how the Jews are the problem. Ah, for the good old days when Jews weren't misguided but marched straight into the ovens!"

Let me see, Israel really treats its Arab citizens equally. I guess you have never been to east Jerusalem, where Arabs have their property taxes raised through the roof in an effort to force them out. Yep, 180,000 jewish Israelis have forced out 180,000 Arabs. Can Arabs have equal employment rights in Israel, certainly not without Israeli army service they are encouraged not to seek, as for Palestinians now herded into concentration camps and made into third class citizens in the land of their own birth, you are silent.
But I guess you have a point, Israel has not herded them into gas ovens yet, but they might as well of had for all the equality they offer them.

As for the Israelis themselves, yes Hitler and Nazis did that to them, no one advocates that today, but why should we support superior treatment for Jews at the expense of
Arabs and Palestinians?

Its is and remains part of the conflict.
Your post touched me emotionally almost to the point I thought the Israelis were the ones who looked to annihilate all Arabs around them in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1970, 1973, 1982. Almost.
Meanwhile, Israeli-Arabs enjoy more prosperity and freedom of speech by orders of magnitude compared to any country around Israel. Their situation is complicated and describing it as one-sided "inequality" or "discrimination" is very far from the truth. There's a very fine balance with this population, they are enjoying half-autonomy inside Israel. The authorities turn a blind eye to many of their activities - tax evasion, (mandatory) IDF draft evasion, illegal building and so one. For the most part this arrangement assures peace and quiet, although it's far from perfect and devastating in the long run (as they can't be considered productive population, in terms of economy or science). The exact same goes for the ultra-orthodox Jews (Hassidim), both populations are very much alike in terms of their relationships with the predominately secular Israeli public.

But I guess it's much easier to compare everything to the Nazis. Does not require too much, does it.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Dear Mr. President Bashar al-Assad,

Please call off your Hezbollah attack dogs or Damaskus will be "cleansed with fire".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now Ozoned really goes off the total deep end of stupidity.

1. Even if we assume the Lebanese Government that is still a basket case is still a Syrian proxy, Hezbollah is another entity that is not a total Syrian proxy. And Syria got an entire Lebanese heave ho when it was assumed it was Syria who assassinated Hari.

2. If we want to know who created Hezbollah, it was created out of necessity when Israel occupied Lebanon. And Hezbollah is mainly a social support group, very needed when Israeli occupied Lebanon, but it also has a military wing that is now dedicated to
self defense.

3. Ozoned is crazy if he thinks Syria would piss on Israel if they were on fire, no love lost on either side, and while other surrounding Arab nations may fear Israeli retaliation, they would not piss on Israel if it would help Israel put out any of their fires
either. In short, proxy wars are a time honored part of diplomacy, the US uses it, the Russians also, Israel also, and likewise Iran and Syria.

4. Israel does not have a single friend in the entire mid-east region, Egyptian neutrality is purchased with US bribes, part of the neighboring anti-Israeli hostility is maybe due to anti-semantism, but most of it now due to the fact Israeli arrogance has now earned the hatreds.

5. Many pro-Israeli fan clubbers blew off the failed Annapolis peace conference, but the surrounding Arab nations signaled their willingness to negotiate in good faith, and Israel refused to make any concessions while continuing West bank settlements. Face the facts, Israel stated their position clearly, they will not do anything unless forced and why should Arab nations support negotiation either?

6. Israel is now skating on very thin ice after raping Lebanon and Gaza, if they continue that aggression road, the world community will muzzle them like the mad dogs they have become.

7. Israel may enjoy the only pro Israeli press left in the world, but even the US is rethinking continued Israeli support.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
1
76
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now Ozoned really goes off the total deep end of stupidity.

1. Even if we assume the Lebanese Government that is still a basket case is still a Syrian proxy, Hezbollah is another entity that is not a total Syrian proxy. And Syria got an entire Lebanese heave ho when it was assumed it was Syria who assassinated Hari.
Correct, it's also controlled by Iran. For sure the Lebanese people don't have a say in that.

2. If we want to know who created Hezbollah, it was created out of necessity when Israel occupied Lebanon. And Hezbollah is mainly a social support group, very needed when Israeli occupied Lebanon, but it also has a military wing that is now dedicated to
self defense.
For sure attacking Israeli troops on Israeli soil is an act of defense. I'm sure even the pacifists Japanese have invited Nassarallah's finest to lecture them on how to non aggressively defend yourself.

3. Ozoned is crazy if he thinks Syria would piss on Israel if they were on fire, no love lost on either side, and while other surrounding Arab nations may fear Israeli retaliation, they would not piss on Israel if it would help Israel put out any of their fires
either. In short, proxy wars are a time honored part of diplomacy, the US uses it, the Russians also, Israel also, and likewise Iran and Syria.
I find it difficult to understand the urination analogy here; but I do however sincerely wonder what kind of proxy wars does Israel conduct. Giving an example for one would suffice, thank you.

4. Israel does not have a single friend in the entire mid-east region, Egyptian neutrality is purchased with US bribes, part of the neighboring anti-Israeli hostility is maybe due to anti-semantism, but most of it now due to the fact Israeli arrogance has now earned the hatreds.
Gee, I guess Israel had so much Arab sympathy which it just threw down the wind. I think Arab hostility stems from their inability to get rid of Israel ever since 1948.
No other reason for the ongoing bloodshed.

The peace with Egypt is probably an Israeli failure. It's never been a real peace, not when their children have schoolbooks depicting Israelis as borderline Nazis.

5. Many pro-Israeli fan clubbers blew off the failed Annapolis peace conference, but the surrounding Arab nations signaled their willingness to negotiate in good faith, and Israel refused to make any concessions while continuing West bank settlements. Face the facts, Israel stated their position clearly, they will not do anything unless forced and why should Arab nations support negotiation either?
I wonder how you got this impression, because all I hear about daily in regards to Israel is their politicians offering such concessions. Obviously there are things Israel will never be able to accept - such as the right of return - but that's expected in negotiation.


6. Israel is now skating on very thin ice after raping Lebanon and Gaza, if they continue that aggression road, the world community will muzzle them like the mad dogs they have become.
In my eyes, Israel should resort to more extreme responses, until the point it would be completely insane to provoke them. Balance of power, remember?

7. Israel may enjoy the only pro Israeli press left in the world, but even the US is rethinking continued Israeli support.
Funny thing, recent US polls showed very high support rate, and public opinion around the world does not sway to the Palestinians with the tricks Muslims pull off. In 10 years Europe will be all right wing, and then we'll see who's in a diplomatic mess, Israel or the Arabs.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
571
126
ell me again werepossum, how you are correct here in saying, "one side tries to cause civilian casualties. The Jewish side gives its Arab citizens the same rights the Jews enjoy; on the Palestinian side the Jews are either armed or dead. Yeah, I can see how the Jews are the problem. Ah, for the good old days when Jews weren't misguided but marched straight into the ovens!"

Let me see, Israel really treats its Arab citizens equally. I guess you have never been to east Jerusalem, where Arabs have their property taxes raised through the roof in an effort to force them out. Yep, 180,000 jewish Israelis have forced out 180,000 Arabs. Can Arabs have equal employment rights in Israel, certainly not without Israeli army service they are encouraged not to seek, as for Palestinians now herded into concentration camps and made into third class citizens in the land of their own birth, you are silent.
But I guess you have a point, Israel has not herded them into gas ovens yet, but they might as well of had for all the equality they offer them.

As for the Israelis themselves, yes Hitler and Nazis did that to them, no one advocates that today, but why should we support superior treatment for Jews at the expense of
Arabs and Palestinians?

Its is and remains part of the conflict.
And you believe excessive property taxes are morally equivalent to being suicide-bombed?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Atreus21 asks, "And you believe excessive property taxes are morally equivalent to being suicide-bombed? "

No but its sure the moral equivalent of ethnic cleaning and apartheid. Religious differences are not always socially dangerous, but pair them with economic discrimination at the same time and they become explosively dangerous while creating hatreds that last for generations.

And cheer up, suicide bombing is so yesterday, now that terrorists have acquired other means, they no longer need employ suicide bombers as the only means.

Nor has Israel advanced much from the days they were the bomb throwing terrorists in the former British mandate of Palestine, now that they have planes and tanks they can and do terrorize innocent civilians the civilized way.

Nor should you take it the wrong way as your one sided myths are challenged, most rational people realize there are legitimate grievances on both sides, but if things are not done and done soon to defuse the grievances and defuse tensions, the world is heading for a mid-east bloodbath as the balance of power is no longer one sided Israeli.
 
Last edited:

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,631
3,126
126
Atreus21 asks, "And you believe excessive property taxes are morally equivalent to being suicide-bombed? "

No but its sure the moral equivalent of ethnic cleaning and apartheid. Religious differences are not always socially dangerous, but pair them with economic discrimination at the same time and they become explosively dangerous while creating hatreds that last for generations.

And cheer up, suicide bombing is so yesterday, now that terrorists have acquired other means, they no longer need employ suicide bombers as the only means.

Nor has Israel advanced much from the days they were the bomb throwing terrorists in the former British mandate of Palestine, now that they have planes and tanks they can and do terrorize innocent civilians the civilized way.

Nor should you not take it the wrong way as your peers who overwhelmingly agree with you, understand that people like Lemon law and Kylebisme and Red Irish are the exception to the rule...they all believe that everything that happens is israel`s fault....they even claim to be rationale people......, most rational people realize there are legitimate grievances on both sides, but if things are not done and done soon to defuse the grievances and defuse tensions, the world is heading for a mid-east bloodbath as the balance of power is no longer one sided Israeli.--- again lemon law is dellusional and possibly in a coma.....
:)
 

Red Irish

Guest
Mar 6, 2009
1,605
0
0
Yoda, I have never claimed that everything was Israel's fault, you know this, but your target audience appears to be a group of kindergarten rejects who will presumably applaud your childish attacks. Could you at least try to be a little more inventive? Questioning the intellect and rationality of those opposed to Israel&#8217;s actions in every post appears to be your only form of reply. I might add that, whilst I suppose I should be flattered that I am the constant object of your attentions, I have not even posted in this thread. I take exception to your post, not because I find it offensive, but rather because, as a personal attack, it is really rather poor and confirms that you lack any notion of wit.

Israel, as you and your brethren are so fond of pointing out, is supposedly "our ally", whilst the Palestinians are depicted as the enemy of the West. Thread after thread, you and your friends go to great pains to point out that the Palestinians harbour terrorists and represent a constant threat, thereby justifying Israel's harsh reactions. However, is Israel simply reacting? How much land does Israel have to steal before we can claim that it is pro-actively adding fuel to the fire? Should we accept the use of phosphorous shells targeting densely populated urban areas? At what point do the actions of Israel become comparable to the terrorist acts that you feel we are excusing?

Your position is untenable. If the Palestinians are indeed nothing more than the irrational and fanatical threat that you suggest, there is no room for agreement or compromise and we should simply eradicate them all. After all, we're only wasting time if nothing can be accomplished at a diplomatic level. However, if we assume that there is some hope of a solution, isn't Israel, our friend, more approachable? Doesn't Israel understand that its allies cannot condone the use of phosphorous or the shelling of urban areas resulting in the death of 300 children? Doesn't Israel stand shoulder to shoulder with us precisely because it is opposed to the breach of international law, the misappropriation of land and any form of apartheid? Why should we level criticism against the Palestinians and call for them to change if they are incorrigible fanatics? You see, that is the downfall of each and every argument you present: the Palestinians must be demonised if we are to embark upon the seemingly impossible task of justifying Israel's actions and demons can only behave as demons, what else are we to expect? Once again, if nothing is to be done, they should all simply be annihilated and the sooner the better, that is the only logical conclusion of your position.

If, however, we are to believe that a diplomatic solution is possible, then we must accept that all parties involved share blame. It is not a question of defending the use of phosphorous against civilians on the basis of Israel being America's friend and under severe threat, but rather a question of affirming and reaffirming that the use of phosphorous against civilians is un-American, or at least not in keeping with the principles and philosophy that supposedly underline the American nation.

If you need me to condemn the Palestinians in the harshest possible manner, consider it done: they have failed to find peace and squander opportunities that result in the loss of lives. However, until you understand that we can say precisely the same of Israel, you will continue to be blinded by the same fanaticism and bigotry that you project on to others.

Shalom, as you are so fond of saying.
 
Last edited:

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,631
3,126
126
honestly nothing would be accomplished by me explaining anything to you. You will never get anything that doesnt go with your belief on this subject. I'm sure you are a very smart person but on this topic you know what you know and to hell with the rest.
YES...and what SamurAchzar knows and says is for the most part very accurate!!
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,631
3,126
126
Yoda, I have never claimed that everything was Israel's fault, you know this, but your target audience appears to be a group of kindergarten rejects who will presumably applaud your childish attacks. Could you at least try to be a little more inventive? Questioning the intellect and rationality of those opposed to Israel’s actions in every post appears to be your only form of reply. I might add that, whilst I suppose I should be flattered that I am the constant object of your attentions, I have not even posted in this thread. I take exception to your post, not because I find it offensive, but rather because, as a personal attack, it is really rather poor and confirms that you lack any notion of wit.

Israel, as you and your brethren are so fond of pointing out, is supposedly "our ally", whilst the Palestinians are depicted as the enemy of the West. Thread after thread, you and your friends go to great pains to point out that the Palestinians harbour terrorists and represent a constant threat, thereby justifying Israel's harsh reactions. However, is Israel simply reacting? How much land does Israel have to steal before we can claim that it is pro-actively adding fuel to the fire? Should we accept the use of phosphorous shells targeting densely populated urban areas? At what point do the actions of Israel become comparable to the terrorist acts that you feel we are excusing?

Your position is untenable. If the Palestinians are indeed nothing more than the irrational and fanatical threat that you suggest, there is no room for agreement or compromise and we should simply eradicate them all. After all, we're only wasting time if nothing can be accomplished at a diplomatic level. However, if we assume that there is some hope of a solution, isn't Israel, our friend, more approachable? Doesn't Israel understand that its allies cannot condone the use of phosphorous or the shelling of urban areas resulting in the death of 300 children? Doesn't Israel stand shoulder to shoulder with us precisely because it is opposed to the breach of international law, the misappropriation of land and any form of apartheid? Why should we level criticism against the Palestinians and call for them to change if they are incorrigible fanatics? You see, that is the downfall of each and every argument you present: the Palestinians must be demonised if we are to embark upon the seemingly impossible task of justifying Israel's actions and demons can only behave as demons, what else are we to expect? Once again, if nothing is to be done, they should all simply be annihilated and the sooner the better, that is the only logical conclusion of your position.

If, however, we are to believe that a diplomatic solution is possible, then we must accept that all parties involved share blame. It is not a question of defending the use of phosphorous against civilians on the basis of Israel being America's friend and under severe threat, but rather a question of affirming and reaffirming that the use of phosphorous against civilians is un-American, or at least not in keeping with the principles and philosophy that supposedly underline the American nation.

If you need me to condemn the Palestinians in the harshest possible manner, consider it done: they have failed to find peace and squander opportunities that result in the loss of lives. However, until you understand that we can say precisely the same of Israel, you will continue to be blinded by the same fanaticism and bigotry that you project on to others.

Shalom, as you are so fond of saying.
I have always said from day one the Palestinians are their own worst enemy....
Hell as a people they cannot even control what happens on there own land.....
They elect a government that for the most part cares little if any for it`s people. You can spout all the BS you want concerning what the their government does for it`s people.
It`s amazing as a people they have lasted this long...when you consider what they have to endure...nobody likes them...all the other arab nations make fun of them, hell even their own duly elected government uses it`s people as human shields and uses it`s peoples homes to attack Israel......makes you wonder who is at fault here.....
 

Red Irish

Guest
Mar 6, 2009
1,605
0
0
I have always said from day one the Palestinians are their own worst enemy....
Hell as a people they cannot even control what happens on there own land.....
They elect a government that for the most part cares little if any for it`s people. You can spout all the BS you want concerning what the their government does for it`s people.
It`s amazing as a people they have lasted this long...when you consider what they have to endure...nobody likes them...all the other arab nations make fun of them, hell even their own duly elected government uses it`s people as human shields and uses it`s peoples homes to attack Israel......makes you wonder who is at fault here.....
Glad to see my post made a big impression on you and that you have foresaken your role as the ass of the forum.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,631
3,126
126
Glad to see my post made a big impression on you and that you have foresaken your role as the ass of the forum.
actually your post made no impression at all on me...it was your usual non-sensicle diatribe.
In fact let go over your post--

Originally Posted by Red Irish
Yoda, I have never claimed that everything was Israel's fault, you know this, but your target audience appears to be a group of kindergarten rejects who will presumably applaud your childish attacks. Could you at least try to be a little more inventive? Questioning the intellect and rationality of those opposed to Israel&#8217;s actions in every post appears to be your only form of reply. -- of course--because they are so blinded to the actual facts that they believe everything is israel`s fault!!I might add that, whilst I suppose I should be flattered that I am the constant object of your attentions, I have not even posted in this thread. I take exception well thats ok..this is america to your post, not because I find it offensive, but rather because, as a personal attackoh...boohooo, it is really rather poor and confirms that you lack any notion of wit.

Israel, as you and your brethren are so fond of pointing out, is supposedly "our ally", whilst the Palestinians are depicted as the enemy of the West. Thread after thread, you and your friends go to great pains to point out that the Palestinians harbour terrorists and represent a constant threat, thereby justifying Israel's harsh reactions. However, is Israel simply reacting? How much land does Israel have to steal before we can claim that it is pro-actively adding fuel to the fire? Should we accept the use of phosphorous shells targeting densely populated urban areas? At what point do the actions of Israel become comparable to the terrorist acts that you feel we are excusing? using that logic you wonder why I lump you with the likes of WTC7 Kylebisme??..... again you say Israel is stealing land..umm no!! Then you jump on the phosporus bandwagon.......and you use the word--WE...as if means diddly to to anyone....as oif we have a say in what happens in that region..as if we are...who is we?? the world?? the UN...thats a freakin joke.....all paper tigers..rofl

Your position is untenable. If the Palestinians are indeed nothing more than the irrational and fanatical threat that you suggest, there is no room for agreement or compromise and we should simply eradicate them all. yopu are the one calling for eradication...I don`t see anybody saying that....in reality there is no room for agreement at present time...the UN is powerless and israel will never agree to the right of return...which in reality is no right at all... After all, we're only wasting time if nothing can be accomplished at a diplomatic level. However, if we assume that there is some hope of a solution, isn't Israel, our friend, more approachable? Doesn't Israel understand that its allies cannot condone the use of phosphorous or the shelling of urban areas resulting in the death of 300 children? You are being way melodramatic..in fact sounds like you are a Palestinian sympathizer...just like lemon law...your true colors are showing..[/]Doesn't Israel stand shoulder to shoulder with us precisely because it is opposed to the breach of international law, then youi speak about that boondoggle internation law..thats a bunch of horse hockey the misappropriation of land and any form of apartheid? Why should we level criticism against the Palestinians and call for them to change if they are incorrigible fanatics? your arguments are falicious at best and just plain goofy....You see, that is the downfall of each and every argument you present: the Palestinians must be demonised no there government and any other group that attacks israel are seen as demons by a nation that is defending their people if we are to embark upon the seemingly impossible task of justifying Israel's actions and demons can only behave as demons, what else are we to expect? so now you are making excuses for the palestinians behavior..lol Once again, if nothing is to be done, they should all simply be annihilated and the sooner the better, that is the only logical conclusion of your position.

If, however, we are to believe that a diplomatic solution is possible, then we must accept that all parties involved share blame. It is not a question of defending the use of phosphorous against civilians on the basis of Israel being America's friend and under severe threat, but rather a question of affirming and reaffirming that the use of phosphorous against civilians is un-American, thats a bunch of manure you are spreading..this isn`t about the United States at all....what you convieniently left out was that in war civilians get in the way and there will be civilian casualties including children.Israel did NOT deliberately target children..so get off your soap box!! or at least not in keeping with the principles and philosophy that supposedly underline the American nation.

If you need me to condemn the Palestinians in the harshest possible manner, consider it done: they have failed to find peace and squander opportunities that result in the loss of lives. However, until you understand that we can say precisely the same of Israel, you will continue to be blinded by the same fanaticism and bigotry that you project on to others.
The fact is we cannot say the exact same thing of Israel.they have in good faith numerous times sat down at the table......I am sorry to open your eyes but it is NOT Israel that does not want peace!!

Shalom, as you are so fond of saying.

Again I repeat myself-- the palestinians are there own worse enemy!!
Shalom!!
 
Last edited:

ASK THE COMMUNITY