Historical/scientific "facts" that you've discovered aren't true..

[Farang]

Led Zeppelin was British. That broke my heart years ago.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
But the hemispheres have everything to do with whether perihelion occurs during summer or winter.

The hemispheres have NOTHING to do when perihelion occurs. Do you even know what perihelion is? Perihelion is the time when the earth is closest to the sun and if occurs in January every year. It doesn't matter if you're in Alaska or Australia. Aphelion is the time when the earth is farthest from the sun and it occurs in July every year. Again, it doesn't matter where on the earth you are. The difference, as I stated, is 4.8 million kilometers.

Originally posted by: Eeezee

During the winter months, the sun is currently further away from the Earth than the during the summer months.

Negative. See above.

Originally posted by: Eeezee

And I specified last year because technically that won't always be true. Our elliptical orbit is slightly perturbed since the sun wobbles around the center of mass of the solar system (it's a point near the center of the sun, but not precisely the center because the rest of the solar system has mass too, even if that mass is practically negligible compared to the sun).

A perturbed elliptical orbit means that, over time, we'll be closer to the sun at different times of year. In other words, one day (after we're long dead) the sun will be closer to us in the summer months than in the winter months. THIS WILL NOT INFLUENCE THE SEASONS. This perturbation in orbit is very small, much smaller than the diameter of the Earth in fact. Ultimately the tilt of the Earth will always have the biggest influence on our seasons.

You're partly right here. The earth does wobble a bit in it's orbit, however, as you also correctly state, it's minimal. And since the difference in perihelion and aphelion is, as stated, 4.8 MILLION kilometers, the slight wobble has no impact whatsoever on when perihelion or aphelion occurs. The wobble has no effect on seasons, also as you correctly state.

However, the wobble will never equal the difference of 4.8 million kilometers so the earth will never be closer to sun during summer than it will during winter.

And you are partially correct in stating that "ultimately the tilt of the earth will always have the biggest influence on our seasons". I say partially because the tilt of the earth is THE reason why we have seasons and why they occur at different times for northern and southern hemispheres. OK, so maybe that's a bit of a nit pick.

Woops, I knew it was closer in Winter, just mistyped it. I was remarking on that because it's so interesting - people who claim the perihelion has anything to do with the seasons are immediately proven wrong by the fact that perihelion occurs during the Northern hemisphere's winter months! That's what makes it so interesting. I'm a physics+astronomy grad student, I swear I am...

However, in several million years our perturbed elliptical orbit WILL cause the date of perihelion to change. Eventually the northern hemisphere will be experiencing summer at perihelion. There are entire sets of problems in Marion+Thornton's chapter on central-force problems that mention these cool effects 😉

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Farang
Led Zeppelin was British. That broke my heart years ago.

Mine too. I'm kind of young (23 in May), so I didn't exactly grow up with these bands.

And the Rolling Stones, I always thought they were the American evil version of the Beatles! They're actually the English evil version of the Beatles 😛

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
But the hemispheres have everything to do with whether perihelion occurs during summer or winter.

The hemispheres have NOTHING to do when perihelion occurs. Do you even know what perihelion is? Perihelion is the time when the earth is closest to the sun and if occurs in January every year. It doesn't matter if you're in Alaska or Australia. Aphelion is the time when the earth is farthest from the sun and it occurs in July every year. Again, it doesn't matter where on the earth you are. The difference, as I stated, is 4.8 million kilometers.

Read what I posted one more time, very slowly and carefully. Hemispheres have nothing to do with the date of perihelion, but they have everything to do with whether it is summer or winter in your hemisphere at that time. January is the height of summer in the Southern Hemisphere.

edit: final emphatic sentence

YOU read what you wrote, very slowly and carefully.

You said in the first post, "hemispheres have EVERYTHING to do with wheather perihelion occurs during summer or winter".

In your second post you said, "Hemispheres have NOTHING to do with the date of perihelion".

So which is it?

The rest I agree with.

You understand that in the southern hemisphere it is summer in January, and in the northern hemisphere it is winter, right? 😕 Both of his statements are true.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: BrownTown
-the earth isn't any farther from the sun during winter

Depends on which hemisphere you're in.

The hemishperes have nothing to do with how far away the sun is.

At perihelion the sun is 147.3 million kilometers from earth. At aphelion, the sun is 152.1 million kilometers from earth, a difference of 4.8 million kilometers. Last time I checked, the earth was slightly less than 4.8 million kilometers in diameter.

The reason it's warmer in the northern hemisphere in June and warmer in the southern hemisphere in January is because of the tilt of the earth's axis.

WHAAAT!!!!????? You got Earth and a super giant planet mixed together there.
And the hemispheres have to do with what season it is. {edit}Of course being 3 million miles closer to the Sun in Winter and 3 Mill farther away in Summer for the Northern hemi is great, it sure screws the South end of the planet though!

 

[Allanv]

it still surprises me that people still believe in god. Don't you think that old chestnut is getting old

 

[Cold Steel]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Cold Steel

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
But the hemispheres have everything to do with whether perihelion occurs during summer or winter.

The hemispheres have NOTHING to do when perihelion occurs. Do you even know what perihelion is? Perihelion is the time when the earth is closest to the sun and if occurs in January every year. It doesn't matter if you're in Alaska or Australia. Aphelion is the time when the earth is farthest from the sun and it occurs in July every year. Again, it doesn't matter where on the earth you are. The difference, as I stated, is 4.8 million kilometers.

Read what I posted one more time, very slowly and carefully. Hemispheres have nothing to do with the date of perihelion, but they have everything to do with whether it is summer or winter in your hemisphere at that time. January is the height of summer in the Southern Hemisphere.

edit: final emphatic sentence

YOU read what you wrote, very slowly and carefully.
You said in the first post, "hemispheres have EVERYTHING to do with whether perihelion occurs during summer or winter".
In your second post you said, "Hemispheres have NOTHING to do with the date of perihelion".
So which is it?
The rest I agree with.

You appear to have SERIOUS reading comprehension problems. BOTH OF MY STATEMENTS ARE TRUE. Perihelion, in January, occurs during WINTER in the NORTHERN HEMISPHERE and during SUMMER in the SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE. Ergo, hemispheres have everything to do with whether perihelion occurs during summer or winter and nothing to do with the date of perhelion. If that is not clear enough, I give up.

(my apologies to everyone but Cold Steel for shouting)

umm. BITE ME!

I was NATURALLY assuming you meant summer AND winter in the same place. MY MISTAKE.

(my apologies to everyone but CALLMEHOE for shouting.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Technically the Earth was further away from the sun during the summer (the opposite of what most people expect) than in the winter last year. The difference is negligible and does not influence the seasons at all, but it is a fun fact 😛

Why did you qualify that with "last year"? The earth is closer during the winter *every* year for the Northern Hemisphere. (At which time, the Southern Hemisphere is experiencing their summer.)

What you're describing is due to the tilt of the Earth (and earns a big 'DUH'). What I'm describing is the actual distance between the center of the Earth and the center of the sun. During the winter months, the sun is currently closer to the Earth than the during the summer months.

And I specified last year because technically that won't always be true. Our elliptical orbit is slightly perturbed since the sun wobbles around the center of mass of the solar system (it's a point near the center of the sun, but not precisely the center because the rest of the solar system has mass too, even if that mass is practically negligible compared to the sun).

A perturbed elliptical orbit means that, over time, we'll be closer to the sun at different times of year. In other words, one day (after we're long dead) the sun will be closer to us in the summer months than in the winter months. THIS WILL NOT INFLUENCE THE SEASONS. This perturbation in orbit is very small, much smaller than the diameter of the Earth in fact. Ultimately the tilt of the Earth will always have the biggest influence on our seasons.

I interpretted what you wrote incorrectly; I interpretted it as you thought it changed fairly frequently. (And, on a geologic time scale, I suppose it is frequent.) So, last year, yes we were closer during the winter. And the year before that, and the year before that, and every year during all of recorded history, and next year, and the year after that, and for the next several millenia. Also, while the proximity to the sun does not necessarily influence which season it is, it does play a factor with how much energy is received by the earth. i.e. all else being equal, the northern hemisphere would have a warmer winter than the southern hemisphere, since we're closer during the winter. All else isn't equal though and many other factors play a role in how relatively warm each season is when comparing the northern to the southern hemispheres.

Originally posted by: Eeezee
However, in several million years our perturbed elliptical orbit WILL cause the date of perihelion to change.

THAT is the reason I wondered why you bothered to qualify the original statement with "last year." Although I thought 10,000 years was more the time scale, not millions of years. But, again, it's like stating "well, last year Earth's North pole was... " which would imply that you knew the magnetic poles reverse, but not that you understood on what geologic time scale.

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
However, the wobble will never equal the difference of 4.8 million kilometers so the earth will never be closer to sun during summer than it will during winter.

No, he's right, more or less. We'll eventually be closer to the sun during the summer solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere.) But, the wobble in Earth's orbit is also caused by the moon. As a result of the moon pulling on the earth, causing tides; the earth's oblateness, and everything trying to "sync" up, it slowly changes where in space earth's axis is pointed. Right now, it's pointed at Polaris. That won't always be true. I don't have time right now to really look at it, but Earth's precession is on about a 25,800 year cycle. Otherwise, the three of us just seem to be in agreement and hijacking this thread.

Okay: what turned my world "upside down" - The realization that Earth's North Pole is a S-pole. (It has to be.) For whatever weird reason, elementary school teachers will often draw the earth with a bar magnet in it (mistake # 1), then label the magnet "N" (mistake #2) at the geographic north pole (which isn't actually located at the geographic north pole - (mistake #3). Then, when kids realize that the N-pole of a magnet is attracted to the S-pole of another magnet and repelled by other N-poles, they never grasp that the N-end of a magnet, when the magnet is allowed to rotate freely, would prefer to be pointing toward the North Pole, not the South Pole. i.e. my world was upside down 🙂 I thought that the pointy end of the compass was a south pole so that it'd be attracted to earth's North pole.

 

[Arcadio]

I'm surprised at the fact that our eyes only catch about 5% of the visual information in the world around us, and that the 95% remaining is created by the brain based on past visual memories. Basicallly everything we see is 95% created by the brain.

 

[Cold Steel]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Cold Steel
Last time I checked, the earth was slightly less than 4.8 million kilometers in diameter.

WHAAAT!!!!????? You got Earth and a super giant planet mixed together there.

Hello?? Sarcasm meter?? Ding, ding. Is this thing working??

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: ussfletcher
I agree that Germany would have won in the instance of having only an Eastern front. After all, a good portion of Germany's losses were due to the Russian winter.... Eventually The Germans would discover jackets.

Germany still wouldn't have won. Once the US joined the war, the amount of weaponry being produced for the allies was enormous. It was only a matter of time before they fell. Even though the front was in one place, you still had other countries providing them with weapons.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: invidia
Black/White supremacist groups gathered together and even formed alliances against a common, more hated enemy: The Jew.


Never knew that black supremacist groups had alliances with white Aryan groups, such as the KKK to stand against the Jews.

Now that's funny.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Without an invasion in the West the best veteran units of the German army could have been sent East and crushed Stalin.

What makes you think "the best veteran units of the German army" weren't already there? Most westerners fail to realize how powerful the Soviet army was by 1944.

My historian friend claims that the Russian army only had one rifle per 3 soldiers, but they had TONS of soldiers. I don't necessarily know if that's a "powerful" army...

i think you are confusing ww1 with ww2.

 

[Raiden256]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
This historical reenactment changed my life.

Awsomeness.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: ussfletcher
I agree that Germany would have won in the instance of having only an Eastern front. After all, a good portion of Germany's losses were due to the Russian winter.... Eventually The Germans would discover jackets.

Germany still wouldn't have won. Once the US joined the war, the amount of weaponry being produced for the allies was enormous. It was only a matter of time before they fell. Even though the front was in one place, you still had other countries providing them with weapons.

Considering that Lend Lease was started in 1941, are you telling me that Soviets could have suddenly turned the war around with 4 years of weapons?

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
I'm surprised at the fact that our eyes only catch about 5% of the visual information in the world around us, and that the 95% remaining is created by the brain based on past visual memories. Basicallly everything we see is 95% created by the brain.

news to me. link?

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Without an invasion in the West the best veteran units of the German army could have been sent East and crushed Stalin.

What makes you think "the best veteran units of the German army" weren't already there? Most westerners fail to realize how powerful the Soviet army was by 1944.

My historian friend claims that the Russian army only had one rifle per 3 soldiers, but they had TONS of soldiers. I don't necessarily know if that's a "powerful" army...

i think you are confusing ww1 with ww2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...#Production_by_country

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: venkman
Jesus wasn't....

No, I probably shouldn't finish that sentence since this thread could end up being interesting.

I'm going to go with:

-The story of Columbus in 1492 essentially being a complete crock.

-That there wasn't really a spider.

That's actually truer than if you had finished it.

Jesus was a real person, regardless of religion.

Even that can be disputed.

And people dispute the stinking identity of Shakespeare, the legitimacy of the moon landing, and the cause of the collapse of the WTC. Any influential figure or event will have its share of controversy no matter how much or little time has passed. You can go on an endless loop of "evidence" contradicting accepted historical events, but sooner or later you're going to have to take a stance accepting one or the other. The fact is, the evidence in favor of these "renegade" perspectives is relatively far and few between, and while it's nice to see another view, it's unlikely that they are much more than interesting crossroads in the anals of history.

Originally posted by: Vic
The 3 big lies taught in US schools are:
- ancient peoples believed the earth was flat,
- Columbus didn't have a map,
- the Mayflower pilgrims were seeking religious freedom.
And these are the lies taught to 1st graders. It gets a lot worse from there.

You mean there were no ancient peoples who believed the earth was flat? I find that hard to believe considering that it's a relatively natural perspective of earth dimensions.

And the last one will need clarifying as well. It sounds like the tidbit which mentions that the Civil War was not fought over slavery, but state rights. That would be correct, but slavery was entwined so much in state rights issues that it's considered nearly synonymous by many people. So I could see a more technical explanation for the Pilgrims' voyage, but I don't see how it wasn't related at all to religious freedom.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
I'm surprised at the fact that our eyes only catch about 5% of the visual information in the world around us, and that the 95% remaining is created by the brain based on past visual memories. Basicallly everything we see is 95% created by the brain.

Whores of perception.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail

Originally posted by: Vic
The 3 big lies taught in US schools are:
- ancient peoples believed the earth was flat,
- Columbus didn't have a map,
- the Mayflower pilgrims were seeking religious freedom.
And these are the lies taught to 1st graders. It gets a lot worse from there.

You mean there were no ancient peoples who believed the earth was flat? I find that hard to believe considering that it's a relatively natural perspective of earth dimensions.

And the last one will need clarifying as well. It sounds like the tidbit which mentions that the Civil War was not fought over slavery, but state rights. That would be correct, but slavery was entwined so much in state rights issues that it's considered nearly synonymous by many people. So I could see a more technical explanation for the Pilgrims' voyage, but I don't see how it wasn't related at all to religious freedom.

The Pilgrims were relatively safe practicing their beliefs in Amsterdam. Them leaving Amsterdam had more to do with economics, a missionary opportunity, raising their children (their own views on society, moral code, etc), and growing the congregation.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Cogman
OO, my list.

- Electrons can be treated as waves much like photons are (that one blew me away, just learned it fairly recently)
- Hot dogs really DO contain almost every meat known (Ok, Chicken, beaf, pork, turkey, ect. Not cat as far as I know 🙂)
- The ability to make some pretty dangerous stuff with common household products is more real then most realize. (Bleach + Vinegar.. mmm Cl2. Yeah chemistry)
- A lot of rocket fuel is mainly made of, sugar (IE, homemade rocket fuel)
- Professionally written books can contain TONS of errors (my chem teacher is pointing this one out to me. Our book has not just logic errors, but TONS of grammatical and spelling errors in it)

Actually, you can treat ANY particle as a wave, not just electrons. A friend of mine works for a professor who does diffraction experiments (which you can only do with waves) with atoms and heavy particles.

There's a really good problem where you have to calculate how long it would take for a human to "diffract" through a door (it's something like several times the age of the universe)

I don't quite understand the problem... The two sort of related problems I know of are as follows:

A person walks towards a wall with two doors in it. Behind the doors and x feet away there is a wall. Calculate the location of the 2nd diffraction peak on the wall.

The other one concerns tunneling. Take a person and walk them towards a wall. They'll hit it and bounce off. Repeat the measurement once a second and figure out how long it would take to have a 50% chance of finding the person on the other side of the wall.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

I interpretted what you wrote incorrectly; I interpretted it as you thought it changed fairly frequently. (And, on a geologic time scale, I suppose it is frequent.) So, last year, yes we were closer during the winter. And the year before that, and the year before that, and every year during all of recorded history, and next year, and the year after that, and for the next several millenia. Also, while the proximity to the sun does not necessarily influence which season it is, it does play a factor with how much energy is received by the earth. i.e. all else being equal, the northern hemisphere would have a warmer winter than the southern hemisphere, since we're closer during the winter. All else isn't equal though and many other factors play a role in how relatively warm each season is when comparing the northern to the southern hemispheres.

Actually I think this is false. At perihelion the earth is moving fastest, At aphelion the earth is moving slowest. Thus we spend more time with the northern hemisphere in the depths of winter, and thus it's colder. The weather between October and March is more severe than between March and October (ie the north has colder winters and the south has warmer summers).

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: her209
George Washington chopped down a cherry tree.
Benjamin Franklin flew a kite with a key on it while it was raining.
Albert Einstein failed math.
Al Gore didn't invent the Internet.

And finally (drumroll please)

The plane doesn't take off.

Einstein failed math as a kid because he was too lazy to do all the routine homework they gave, even though he was a genius at it and probably aced all the tests.

Wrong
http://www.time.com/time/2007/einstein/3.html

Ah well, he did pretty poorly overall in his classes. His headmaster told his parents when he was a kid that he was a failure and probably wouldn't get anywhere in life.
He was unable to get into any good universities because of his poor grades.

 

[SirPorl]

*deleted*

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: astroidea

Originally posted by: her209
George Washington chopped down a cherry tree.
Benjamin Franklin flew a kite with a key on it while it was raining.
Albert Einstein failed math.
Al Gore didn't invent the Internet.

And finally (drumroll please)

The plane doesn't take off.

Einstein failed math as a kid because he was too lazy to do all the routine homework they gave, even though he was a genius at it and probably aced all the tests.

Wrong
http://www.time.com/time/2007/einstein/3.html

Ah well, he did pretty poorly overall in his classes. His headmaster told his parents when he was a kid that he was a failure and probably wouldn't get anywhere in life.
He was unable to get into any good universities because of his poor grades.

I suppose that's why he taught at Princeton...