Hispanic growth extends eastward

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I bet Romans used to have these types of discussions in the Senate as well as in the streets, during the Antonine dynasty.

"My dear Cassius, what's with all these barbarians flocking to Rome, crowding the streets, encouraging thievery and the worshipping of strange foreign gods? Why, I swear by Jupiter's sandals that Greek and Thracian languages are more often heard in some quarters than our noble Latin! Praetorians, be vigilent! I tell you, the Homeland is in danger!

Why can't these conquered people accept their submission and stay in their backwater huts, where they belong! But no, now they got equal rights with other Roman subjects, so they come to the centre of the world... how long before they will take over?"

Well, actually they didn't, considering the well-known Roman practice of extending citizenship to all the conquered barbarian people. Actually a few Roman emperors were barbarians themselves (including Hadrian, who was born in Spain; Claudius who was a Gaul or Caracalla, born in Gaul but of Arab descent).

I know, that was precisely my point - see the italicized part - and I think you're wrong about Claudius, the fifth emperor in the Julian dynasty, who was purely Roman, albeit born in Gaul 😀

Wow, I didn't realize that we conquered Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, etc....😕

oh, really?
Well then go to Google and type in this exact phrase:
"U.S. interventions in Latin America"

Here are a few samples:

http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/r...ces/interventions.html
http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/teddy.html

Now, please tell me these are not examples of good old "divide et impera" by a nation which considers the entire South and Central American area its own private backyard, and then wonders why the locals are attracted by the mirage of the central seat of power.

You reap what you sow...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I bet Romans used to have these types of discussions in the Senate as well as in the streets, during the Antonine dynasty.

"My dear Cassius, what's with all these barbarians flocking to Rome, crowding the streets, encouraging thievery and the worshipping of strange foreign gods? Why, I swear by Jupiter's sandals that Greek and Thracian languages are more often heard in some quarters than our noble Latin! Praetorians, be vigilent! I tell you, the Homeland is in danger!

Why can't these conquered people accept their submission and stay in their backwater huts, where they belong! But no, now they got equal rights with other Roman subjects, so they come to the centre of the world... how long before they will take over?"

Well, actually they didn't, considering the well-known Roman practice of extending citizenship to all the conquered barbarian people. Actually a few Roman emperors were barbarians themselves (including Hadrian, who was born in Spain; Claudius who was a Gaul or Caracalla, born in Gaul but of Arab descent).

I know, that was precisely my point - see the italicized part - and I think you're wrong about Claudius, the fifth emperor in the Julian dynasty, who was purely Roman, albeit born in Gaul 😀

Wow, I didn't realize that we conquered Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, etc....😕

oh, really?
Well then go to Google and type in this exact phrase:
"U.S. interventions in Latin America"

Here are a few samples:

http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/r...ces/interventions.html
http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/teddy.html

Now, please tell me these are not examples of good old "divide et impera" by a nation which considers the entire South and Central American area its own private backyard, and then wonders why the locals are attracted by the mirage of the central seat of power.

You reap what you sow...

So in your view this must make the illegals in this country some kind of "voluntary" slaves awaiting a Spartacus to lead them in revolt??

 

[AnitaPeterson]

@ 1EZduzit

That is a definite possibility.

In the U.S., Hispanics are already outnumbering Blacks as a minority. Given enough numbers, they get enough political power to push for changes agreeable to them; sooner or later another Che Guevara will rise, using democratic means to gain additional rights, with the dream to unite a single Mestizo population from Tierra del Fuego to the Great Lakes.

In the end, it was the Spanish and the Portuguese who discovered and first colonized this continent, so who's to say this isn't the right direction for the wheels of history?

 

[Fern]

^ I keep hearing it was the Scandinavians. Remains of their settlements still exist in Canada.

Fern

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Fern
^ I keep hearing it was the Scandinavians. Remains of their settlements still exist in Canada.

Fern

Failed attempts do not count, unfortunately.

 

[Fern]

^ Well then, that pretty much rules out the Portugese and Spanish. I'm unfamiliar with any Portugese colony here. The Spanish were basically drivern out. 😉

Fern

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Fern
^ Well then, that pretty much rules out the Portugese and Spanish. I'm unfamiliar with any Portugese colony here. The Spanish were basically drivern out. 😉

Fern

Are you playing here???

A successful colonization has at least two elements:

1. Opening the new areas to trading with the motherland, creating permanent colonies, creating a stable economy;
2. Staying power (when faced with competing forces from other areas)

The Vikings failed at both. Presumably, the Spanish only partially failed as far as the second condition is concerned... Meanwhile, present-day Central and South America speak Spanish and Portuguese. California and Texas WERE Spanish colonies 200 years ago - if they become Spanish again, two centuries is but a hiccup on the historic scale.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: Fern
^ Well then, that pretty much rules out the Portugese and Spanish. I'm unfamiliar with any Portugese colony here. The Spanish were basically drivern out. 😉

Fern

Are you playing here???

Yes 😀

And as far former colonial powers regaining control, I'd rather it be the Dutch. I'd be much happier if had an *Amsterdam* here. I hate international flights. 🙂

Fern

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JeepinEd
The mindset of Hispanics entering this country now is very different from 30 years ago.
It used to be that they wanted to be Americans. They were following the American dream.
The majority of them would come in and assimilate with our culture.

Now, they enter this country with an entitlement mentality. Whether legal or illegal, they expect the U.S. to assimilate to them.
There are Hispanic students in my son's school, who speak no English. Their parents are demanding Spanish speaking teachers to teach them in Spanish. There is no interest in learning English. There doesn't seem to be much of an emphasis on education, which is really sad. Other cultures are still assimilating and looking to get ahead in life here. Just google test scores between Asian immigrants and Hispanic immigrants. They don't come here demanding to be taught in their language.

This country is supposed to be a melting pot of cultures. When one culture starts to take over, you eliminate diversity.
We've always had illegal immigration, but the number of people entering this country illegally has exploded over the past several years. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, the estimated illegal population in 1990 was 3.5 million. In 2000, the estimated illegal population was 7 million (these are very conservative numbers). I'm sure it is way beyond that now.

Unfortunately there is no evidence to back up what you are saying. Rates of English assimilation have not changed in recent years as you would seem to suggest they should have. Not only that, but the immigration levels we are seeing now aren't even as high as they have been in the past. If you look at the early 20th century you would see that there was actually a higher proportion of immigration compared to the size of the US population then there are.

In addition you are trying to compare Asians and Hispanics' test scores as a measure of assimilation. If you're going to do that, then why not include the test scores from African Americans, Native Americans, and other minorities that share many of the socioeconomic traits of Hispanics? Are they not assimilating either? Is that a function of African American or native american immigration? Likely not.

There is plenty of first-hand experience out there. The fact that many schools employ both an English and Spanish speaking teacher for classrooms is enough evidence for me. My favorite, though, is that my kids school puts on an annual show that includes a skit about Cinco De Mayo. The ending goes "Viva la Mexico, viva la Mexico!" First question is why are American kids celebrating a Mexican holiday and secondly, why are the cheering the country of Mexico? Assimilation to a hispanic culture is happening, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
@ 1EZduzit

That is a definite possibility.

In the U.S., Hispanics are already outnumbering Blacks as a minority. Given enough numbers, they get enough political power to push for changes agreeable to them; sooner or later another Che Guevara will rise, using democratic means to gain additional rights, with the dream to unite a single Mestizo population from Tierra del Fuego to the Great Lakes.

In the end, it was the Spanish and the Portuguese who discovered and first colonized this continent, so who's to say this isn't the right direction for the wheels of history?

Don't be so quick to pass judgement on which way the wheels of history may be pointing. Hispanics are finding that their usual tactics aren't working because they have no claims, historic or otherwise to the territories they now want to expand to.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CPA

There is plenty of first-hand experience out there. The fact that many schools employ both an English and Spanish speaking teacher for classrooms is enough evidence for me. My favorite, though, is that my kids school puts on an annual show that includes a skit about Cinco De Mayo. The ending goes "Viva la Mexico, viva la Mexico!" First question is why are American kids celebrating a Mexican holiday and secondly, why are the cheering the country of Mexico? Assimilation to a hispanic culture is happening, whether you want to believe it or not.

A skit in an annual school play is your evidence of the onrushing cultural apocalypse? Excuse me if I am unimpressed.

EDIT: quotes were screwed up.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
@ 1EZduzit

That is a definite possibility.

In the U.S., Hispanics are already outnumbering Blacks as a minority. Given enough numbers, they get enough political power to push for changes agreeable to them; sooner or later another Che Guevara will rise, using democratic means to gain additional rights, with the dream to unite a single Mestizo population from Tierra del Fuego to the Great Lakes.

In the end, it was the Spanish and the Portuguese who discovered and first colonized this continent, so who's to say this isn't the right direction for the wheels of history?

Don't be so quick to pass judgement on which way the wheels of history may be pointing. Hispanics are finding that their usual tactics aren't working because they have no claims, historic or otherwise to the territories they now want to expand to.

Yes, the Hispanic people have a long history of imperialism. You know the old saying, "The sun never sets on the Hispanic empire."

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Well I figure somewhere between that overly-politically correct viewpoint and the Klan meeting you people have going, there has to be a reasonable middle ground. Maybe we'll find it if both sides keep screaming at each other for a few more years.

My, my, the air must be quite thin at your moral high-ground Rainsford, as it just seems you've stumbled off it....

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Is that what this thread is about? I thought it was about Hispanic growth in the Eastern part of the country. And, of course, the opportunity for everyone with more typing skills than brains to express what they dislike about Mexicans (under the guise of "illegals").

You must not be in tune with the times, as most illegals are Mexicans -- oops -- was that remark too racist for you?

Feel free to turn it into something more. Maybe the Illuminati is behind it.

Is that your five year old's insight into the matter?

 

[Rio Rebel]

Well the last comment was funny, but it didn't really make up for the inane first two shots. Is that really the best you can do after this long?

 

[rpanic]

Back to the topic. A friend of mine went back home to North Carolina two weeks ago to help his parents out. First thing he says on the phone is ?I have not been back home in 7 years and now they are all over, I didn?t see any last time I was home It?s becoming like LA here now?.

 

[f1r3s1d3]

Originally posted by: Socio
Hispanic growth extends eastward

Rapidly growing numbers of Hispanics are fanning out across the eastern half of the United States and settling in rural and suburban counties far from traditional immigrant strongholds, according to census numbers released today.

The increases in areas that experienced little diversity until this decade intensify the uproar over immigration. Forty-one states have enacted 171 laws this year aimed at illegal immigrants. About 100 communities have proposed similar ordinances; 40 have been enacted.

?We?re seeing new immigrant minorities coming in to areas that haven?t had very much minority populations or immigrant populations,? says William Frey, demographer at the Brookings Institution. ?It put immigration on the front burner politically. It scared a lot of people.?

The number of Hispanics has soared since 2000 in counties such as Paulding near Atlanta, Kendall on the western edge of Chicago and Stafford, Prince William and Loudoun in Virginia, outside Washington.

The high birthrate among Hispanics accounted for more than half the growth this decade, according to Kenneth Johnson, demographer at University of New Hampshire?s Carsey Institute.

It seems the eastern states are finally getting a taste of immigration problems the southwestern states have been drowning in for a long time.

Goddamnit.

 

[Taejin]

The conversation between rpanic and Rainsford has been most informative.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Well I figure somewhere between that overly-politically correct viewpoint and <the Klan meeting you people have going, there has to be a reasonable middle ground. Maybe we'll find it if both sides keep screaming at each other for a few more years.

My, my, the air must be quite thin at your moral high-ground Rainsford, as it just seems you've stumbled off it....

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Is that what this thread is about? I thought it was about Hispanic growth in the Eastern part of the country. And, of course, the opportunity for everyone with more typing skills than brains to express what they dislike about Mexicans (under the guise of "illegals").

You must not be in tune with the times, as most illegals are Mexicans -- oops -- was that remark too racist for you?

Feel free to turn it into something more. Maybe the Illuminati is behind it.

Is that your five year old's insight into the matter?

Most illegals are Mexican, therefore, if Mexican, assume illegal? Is that how logic works?

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: rpanic
Back to the topic. A friend of mine went back home to North Carolina two weeks ago to help his parents out. First thing he says on the phone is ?I have not been back home in 7 years and now they are all over, I didn?t see any last time I was home It?s becoming like LA here now?.

Hurry, get me a can of Raid!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Well I figure somewhere between that overly-politically correct viewpoint and <the Klan meeting you people have going, there has to be a reasonable middle ground. Maybe we'll find it if both sides keep screaming at each other for a few more years.

My, my, the air must be quite thin at your moral high-ground Rainsford, as it just seems you've stumbled off it....
...

Well I'm not sure of the altitude of the particular moral grounds I've staked out, but I can sure as hell say I'm doing better than the folks who hate people just because they are different. And at the end of the day, that is what this issue is about for too many of you.

Not everyone worried about illegal immigration falls into that particular category, but then again, you're not worried about illegal immigration...it's just a convenient reason to hate people. And I don't misuse the word "hate", or for that matter the comparison to the KKK. Read some of these comments, made by you and many others, the topic of armed assault on illegal immigrants comes up quite frequently. And hardly five minutes can go by in a discussion of border security before someone suggests, as if it where a joke, that we should set up border defenses that kill or maim people trying to cross. Tell me again why my "Klan" comparison was off-base...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: rpanic
Back to the topic. A friend of mine went back home to North Carolina two weeks ago to help his parents out. First thing he says on the phone is ?I have not been back home in 7 years and now they are all over, I didn?t see any last time I was home It?s becoming like LA here now?.

What is it about changing demographics that scares people so much?

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: rpanic
Back to the topic. A friend of mine went back home to North Carolina two weeks ago to help his parents out. First thing he says on the phone is ?I have not been back home in 7 years and now they are all over, I didn?t see any last time I was home It?s becoming like LA here now?.

What is it about changing demographics that scares people so much?

It?s not so much being scared as it is not wanting to have to deal with all of the negative effects that seem to be multiplying. If a group is going to come into a county and start causing a lot of problems intentionally or not for said country why should its citizens have to stand for it?

They are the only group that has immigrated that has caused me and family personal hardships especially when it comes to crime.

 

[rpanic]

Another thing I think that really pisses people off is this sense of entitlement.

Protesting in the streets wanting amnesty and not waiting like everyone else.
Getting instate tuition pricing when citizens from other states pay through the roof when they come to California. Welfare Benefits. Drivers license with no real documentation. And these are just a few things that just come to mind.

And they mostly work on a cash system which is not getting taxed. And I know people say ?well lets make them all legal then they will pay taxes? that doesn?t work because the last time we gave them amnesty all that did was send the message to flood the county and wait for the next one. Not to mention since the US immigration policy is based on family reunification instead of job need all of there family members could get in ahead of everyone too that didn?t make in time for the amnesty.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
@ 1EZduzit

That is a definite possibility.

In the U.S., Hispanics are already outnumbering Blacks as a minority. Given enough numbers, they get enough political power to push for changes agreeable to them; sooner or later another Che Guevara will rise, using democratic means to gain additional rights, with the dream to unite a single Mestizo population from Tierra del Fuego to the Great Lakes.

In the end, it was the Spanish and the Portuguese who discovered and first colonized this continent, so who's to say this isn't the right direction for the wheels of history?

Don't be so quick to pass judgement on which way the wheels of history may be pointing. Hispanics are finding that their usual tactics aren't working because they have no claims, historic or otherwise to the territories they now want to expand to.

Yes, the Hispanic people have a long history of imperialism. You know the old saying, "The sun never sets on the Hispanic empire."

I guess you just forgot that Hispania was the name given by the Romans to the whole of the Iberian Peninsula (modern Portugal, Spain, Andorra, and Gibraltar). That's a long ways away from the Northern Plains where I live.


Despite what you (and others) are trying to infer, Mexico is ruled by Hispanics, is it not? If Hispanics want to fight for what they think is theirs, then thier battle is with them, not us. The truth is Hispanics want what we have and see us as an easier target then the a-holes who run Mexico so they sneak into OUR country and try to use OUR laws against US.

If immigrants want to come to the US legally, that's one thing but to sneak in and try to blackmail/intimidate us is another matter entirely.

 

[narutofan36]

all immigrants provide an annual of over 300 billion dollars to the economy. this is nothing but good news