Hispanic growth extends eastward

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: Rainsford

It's not really relevant to the conversation, but I'm not sure European immigrants are the perfect model to follow either. My grandparents on both sides came from various European countries, and despite only one generation of separation, I don't know shit about any of them. For all practical purposes, my cultural heritage began in 1930. I'm not so sure that's a good thing...just because someone is immigrating doesn't mean their previous culture is something to be cast aside as quickly as possible. I don't agree with avoiding learning the language or flying another flag above the American flag, but I don't think ALSO speaking another language or keeping some customs from the "old country" are too bad an idea either.

I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
In European countries like Denmark or Sweden, most people knows more than one languages. But then, those are citizens of their countries.

What's different today is, Spanish speaking people got their own TV Channel. Europeans immigrants didnt' have Italian channel, German channel, Irish channel (well, it's English but weird sounding anyway), and they have to learn the language fast or else. Today, Hispanics dont' have to listen to English in your home because they got their own TV channel in their own native language. This creates certain barrier in cross culture immersion.

Another difference is, geographical distance. Europeans have to travel across the Atlantic to come to USA, and once they arrive they can't go back easily. They might think of themselves as "whichever European countries they were from", but they are too far from homeland to connect to their country of origin.
South Americans don't have this problem. They can go back and forth. America isn't a final destination as much as temporary home. Loyalty belongs more to old 'motherland', as you can see which country's flag they prefer to wave around.

Chinese people have their own TV channels, I guess I better start packing my bags. 😉

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Americans hate brown skin people so much, that is why they watch Jennifer Lopez and her husband Marc Anthony in movies, and listen to their music.

They become rich and famous because Americans hate brown skin so much. Really.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, that is why they watch George Lopez's sitcom ABC.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, that is why they watch Mario Lopez on Access Hollywood.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, they listen to Ricky Martin's music.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, they listen to Shakira's songs.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, they watch Wilmer Valderrama on That 70's show, because Wilmer Valderrama immigrated from Venezuela to get Americans to hate him. Americans celebrity women hate brown skin so much, that is why Wilmer Valderrama dated around all the American women in Hollywood like Lohan and Hilton. So much hatred!

When will Americans stop hating brown skin people? Making them famous and rich, watching them on TV, movies, listening to their music in their living room inside their home, on their IPod, in theaters?

Couldn't you say the same for the Jazz era and black people? White people loved to the "sin" of listening to Jazz and being around black Jazz musicians even during a time of heavy racism. Just because people like something popular doesn't mean there aren't racial implications outside of that scope.

 

[TheSlamma]

Enforce laws that fine companies that hire illegals $10,000 a day Per illegal and the move will stop.

$3-5 an hour with no benefits is fine to these people. They live with 15 others making the same money.. 15X$5 = $75 an hour They get free health and schooling for their kids thanks to American tax payers.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: rpanic
You are right Rainsford I did go a little off the deep end with that last post, I guess I am just really bitter with this subject. Day in and day out crap is thrown in my face. I am not getting this from watching the news, my opinions are all from my experiences. My wife had a positive outlook too until she moved out of her pocket of sanity, and it just became worse when she became a social worker for child services.

I recently became a father and would like to have one more kid. But I can?t have a bunch without becoming impoverished. My wife and I are already having to think about what private school we are going to send our child to in four years because the public school system here has adapted third world standards except for a few pockets that are a fight to get into. Or we just go the way everyone else has that isn?t Hispanic and just move, is that right?

California pass a proposition called 187 to take away all the free rides (think it passed by like 70-80%) and that got knocked down as discriminating against Illegals!
They just closed down another major hospital Martin Luther King Jr. Harbor this week guess that means the other hospitals are going to get more crowded. I could go on and on about the overwhelming negatives.

So we get cheap labor and then get slammed on the back-end with costs to our infrastructure and damage to our society as a whole.

I was glad to see all the protests last year; I hope it woke up some people because this isn?t just a problem for the border states anymore.

For what it's worth, I'm not dismissing your problems or your experience...I'm just saying I'm not sure we can judge all Hispanic people based on those experiences. Massive immigration causes problems, and it gets worse when it's illegal immigration. There are real problem here that need to be addressed, I'm just not sure the way to address those issues is to demonize Hispanics like some folks are doing.

 

[rpanic]

A lot a Hispanics I have no problem with. One of the best men in my wedding was Hispanic he knows my views, a lot of Hispanics agree with me. Its just this country is going to tear apart. There is a whole separate class that is being created from illegal immigration that will never come up. How are people going to act if the US ever takes a major fall and goes the way of the Soviet Union, or if resources become too scarce. That?s when things like brutal tyrants come into power and then what a crazy Hitler type takes control. Especially with our faltering education levels don?t ever think that the US is immune from these things. Things need to be stabilized soon so things don?t get anymore out of control.

The US is setting its self up in so many areas for failure I want my child and hopefully children to have a safe place to live and prosper. Things seamed a lot easier before becoming a dad. This is why I usually would stay away from political posts I need sleep. 🙂

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...

I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.

Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.

Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.

I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.

I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.

Oh right, your ignorant generalization was more specific than that. There you go then. Here's a partial list of Somali intellectuals and political figures currently living, working and teaching in the US universities:

Hussein Mataan, PhD

Sheikh Hassan Jaamici, PhD

Dr. Hussein Egal

Dr. Said Isse Mohamud

Prof. Abdirahim Hagi Mohamed

Dr. Abdullahi Ahmed Addow, PhD

Prof. Sidow Abdi Mohamed,

Dr. Abdulqasim Mohamud Ali

Ahmed Omar ?Keli?

Dr. Abdulkadir Ali Egal

Sheikh Ali Mo?allim Musse

Abdillahi Mohamud Hirad

Professor Ali Khalif Galayr

Abdulqadir Mohamed Addow

Said Sheikh

Abdirahman Waberi

Among them are a former Prime Minister, a few diplomats, members of UNDP, a member of the US Commission of Civil rights, an International Law scholar and some of the organizers of the Somali Concern Group.

Your cultural relativism is comical. I could say that 4 year olds shouldn't drive cars and you find a youtube video of a 4 year old who's a better race car driver than the average guy. It doesn't change facts.

Simply put, people in this thread are trying to attribute the failings of third world nations to racial or cultural deficiencies despite the fact that these failings clearly cut across all ethnic and racial groups when put in similar situations.

Let's make it more palatable for you then. There are some aliens with red skin who visit the planet. They're peaceful and prosperous. There are some with green who visit and are war mongers, their history full of failure when compared to those with the red skin. We do a DNA test and the only diff is the color of their skin; in all other ways they are genetically equal. Now, you're part of a game in which you have to team up with an alien and build a hut as quickly as possible. From your selection is a red one you've never met and a green you've never met. Who do you pick? If you said flip a coin, you're disingenuous or worse.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...

I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.

Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.

Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.

I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.

I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.

Oh right, your ignorant generalization was more specific than that. There you go then. Here's a partial list of Somali intellectuals and political figures currently living, working and teaching in the US universities:

Hussein Mataan, PhD

Sheikh Hassan Jaamici, PhD

Dr. Hussein Egal

Dr. Said Isse Mohamud

Prof. Abdirahim Hagi Mohamed

Dr. Abdullahi Ahmed Addow, PhD

Prof. Sidow Abdi Mohamed,

Dr. Abdulqasim Mohamud Ali

Ahmed Omar ?Keli?

Dr. Abdulkadir Ali Egal

Sheikh Ali Mo?allim Musse

Abdillahi Mohamud Hirad

Professor Ali Khalif Galayr

Abdulqadir Mohamed Addow

Said Sheikh

Abdirahman Waberi

Among them are a former Prime Minister, a few diplomats, members of UNDP, a member of the US Commission of Civil rights, an International Law scholar and some of the organizers of the Somali Concern Group.

Your cultural relativism is comical. I could say that 4 year olds shouldn't drive cars and you find a youtube video of a 4 year old who's a better race car driver than the average guy. It doesn't change facts.

Simply put, people in this thread are trying to attribute the failings of third world nations to racial or cultural deficiencies despite the fact that these failings clearly cut across all ethnic and racial groups when put in similar situations.

Let's make it more palatable for you then. There are some aliens with red skin who visit the planet. They're peaceful and prosperous. There are some with green who visit and are war mongers, their history full of failure when compared to those with the red skin. We do a DNA test and the only diff is the color of their skin; in all other ways they are genetically equal. Now, you're part of a game in which you have to team up with an alien and build a hut as quickly as possible. From your selection is a red one you've never met and a green you've never met. Who do you pick? If you said flip a coin, you're disingenuous or worse.

So, you would hire someone you never met without ever questioning who they are, what their motives are, their intelligence level, their skill? Do you hire people based on your pre-conceptions of their race without care of individual skill? Oh how we've advanced so much as a species.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...

I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.

Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.

Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.

I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.

I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.

Oh right, your ignorant generalization was more specific than that. There you go then. Here's a partial list of Somali intellectuals and political figures currently living, working and teaching in the US universities:

Hussein Mataan, PhD

Sheikh Hassan Jaamici, PhD

Dr. Hussein Egal

Dr. Said Isse Mohamud

Prof. Abdirahim Hagi Mohamed

Dr. Abdullahi Ahmed Addow, PhD

Prof. Sidow Abdi Mohamed,

Dr. Abdulqasim Mohamud Ali

Ahmed Omar ?Keli?

Dr. Abdulkadir Ali Egal

Sheikh Ali Mo?allim Musse

Abdillahi Mohamud Hirad

Professor Ali Khalif Galayr

Abdulqadir Mohamed Addow

Said Sheikh

Abdirahman Waberi

Among them are a former Prime Minister, a few diplomats, members of UNDP, a member of the US Commission of Civil rights, an International Law scholar and some of the organizers of the Somali Concern Group.

Your cultural relativism is comical. I could say that 4 year olds shouldn't drive cars and you find a youtube video of a 4 year old who's a better race car driver than the average guy. It doesn't change facts.

Simply put, people in this thread are trying to attribute the failings of third world nations to racial or cultural deficiencies despite the fact that these failings clearly cut across all ethnic and racial groups when put in similar situations.

Let's make it more palatable for you then. There are some aliens with red skin who visit the planet. They're peaceful and prosperous. There are some with green who visit and are war mongers, their history full of failure when compared to those with the red skin. We do a DNA test and the only diff is the color of their skin; in all other ways they are genetically equal. Now, you're part of a game in which you have to team up with an alien and build a hut as quickly as possible. From your selection is a red one you've never met and a green you've never met. Who do you pick? If you said flip a coin, you're disingenuous or worse.

The only comical thing I see is your idea that people can be judged based on the country they are from. If you cared to pick up a couple of books every now and then you might be able to understand why different countries have different problems, and understand it's never because of their people.

 

[rpanic]

One group is overwhelmingly taking advantage of their proximity and lack of enforcement of laws here. And our government seems to be more than happy to let it happen. What more is there to say.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Simply put, people in this thread are trying to attribute the failings of third world nations to racial or cultural deficiencies despite the fact that these failings clearly cut across all ethnic and racial groups when put in similar situations.

Let's make it more palatable for you then. There are some aliens with red skin who visit the planet. They're peaceful and prosperous. There are some with green who visit and are war mongers, their history full of failure when compared to those with the red skin. We do a DNA test and the only diff is the color of their skin; in all other ways they are genetically equal. Now, you're part of a game in which you have to team up with an alien and build a hut as quickly as possible. From your selection is a red one you've never met and a green you've never met. Who do you pick? If you said flip a coin, you're disingenuous or worse.

Did you even read what I wrote?

Lets me break down the path of discussion so far.

Socio: We shouldn't want Hispanic people in charge in the US. Just look at what a crappy job they did in Central and South America! Hence, I infer Hispanic people must somehow be fundamentally inferior to whites. PS. I'm a big racist.

Me: No, people and cultures are products of the conditions and stressors that they are placed on while they are formed. This is why they are different. The culture is the product, not the cause. Here, I'll even cite a book that is dedicated to in depth analysis on this. To blame it on what you are blaming it on is racist.

Skoorb: But people are still different!

Me: ........

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: rpanic
One group is overwhelmingly taking advantage of their proximity and lack of enforcement of laws here. And our government seems to be more than happy to let it happen. What more is there to say.

And once again, the initial topic was that the article was associating all Hispanic immigrants as illegal immigrants, which is what the mass media likes to do. They take an event and extrapolate for all as if that's a valid measurement.

 

[imported_dna]

Yawn..

Another fine thread where all the righteous P.C. groan about bigotry and racism.

Maybe one day we'll hear a peep about Mexico's drive to export all the of its poor since they obviously have no place in *ahem* Mexico -- the coutry whose flag they fly with religious zeal in the USA.

 

[babylon5]

You can't say negative things about Mexico, that is racism/Neo-Nazi!!!

Please keep blasting America and Americans, the land of KKK.

 

[Rio Rebel]

If so many people weren't chiming in with anti-Hispanic comments, the thread wouldn't BE about racism.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
If so many people weren't chiming in with anti-Hispanic comments, the thread wouldn't BE about racism.

Truth.

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...

I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.

Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.

Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.

I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.

I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.

Oh right, your ignorant generalization was more specific than that. There you go then. Here's a partial list of Somali intellectuals and political figures currently living, working and teaching in the US universities:

Hussein Mataan, PhD

Sheikh Hassan Jaamici, PhD

Dr. Hussein Egal

Dr. Said Isse Mohamud

Prof. Abdirahim Hagi Mohamed

Dr. Abdullahi Ahmed Addow, PhD

Prof. Sidow Abdi Mohamed,

Dr. Abdulqasim Mohamud Ali

Ahmed Omar ?Keli?

Dr. Abdulkadir Ali Egal

Sheikh Ali Mo?allim Musse

Abdillahi Mohamud Hirad

Professor Ali Khalif Galayr

Abdulqadir Mohamed Addow

Said Sheikh

Abdirahman Waberi

Among them are a former Prime Minister, a few diplomats, members of UNDP, a member of the US Commission of Civil rights, an International Law scholar and some of the organizers of the Somali Concern Group.

Your cultural relativism is comical. I could say that 4 year olds shouldn't drive cars and you find a youtube video of a 4 year old who's a better race car driver than the average guy. It doesn't change facts.

Simply put, people in this thread are trying to attribute the failings of third world nations to racial or cultural deficiencies despite the fact that these failings clearly cut across all ethnic and racial groups when put in similar situations.

Let's make it more palatable for you then. There are some aliens with red skin who visit the planet. They're peaceful and prosperous. There are some with green who visit and are war mongers, their history full of failure when compared to those with the red skin. We do a DNA test and the only diff is the color of their skin; in all other ways they are genetically equal. Now, you're part of a game in which you have to team up with an alien and build a hut as quickly as possible. From your selection is a red one you've never met and a green you've never met. Who do you pick? If you said flip a coin, you're disingenuous or worse.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: babylon5
You can't say negative things about Mexico, that is racism/Neo-Nazi!!!

Please keep blasting America and Americans, the land of KKK.

How about we don't say negative things about either nations, races of people, colors of skin and so on?

Then again when people go off and start down the..................."ZOMG THE ****INSERT GROUP HERE**** ARE COMMING!!! HIDE THE WHITE WOMEN AND CHILDERN!!!" road it kind derails everything you have to say in and of itself.

Of course if these people's true intentions are to appeal to the fallacies of spite, fear, and ridicule then I guess they are doing a bang up job of it.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Rainsford


Fine, you're all a bunch of bigoted idiots. I can't believe that it's 2007 and skin color, language, religion, etc, are the primary factors in how some people treat and judge a person instead of how that person acts. It's truly mind boggling. This isn't a damn Klan meeting, what the hell do I care whether the guy who lives next to me is named Bob or Carlos?

I'm thinking Bob and Carlos can get along just fine, but we're guaranteed to have some problems between Bubba and Diego.

Like the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. If it's not Hispanics, it's Muslims or blacks or Catholics or Protestants or the Irish or Germans or Jews or Asians...

I can't help but notice/point out that you avoid using the term "illegals" in the discussion. I have ZERO problems with people coming to this country legally, which affords us the opportunity to be selective and get the best we people we can. While that may appear to some to be heartless I see it as "tough love".

So, I am sick of this "getting the best people we can" bullshit. It shouldn't be about that, it should be about not getting the worst. For any nation to function well, it can't have only the best...it needs a mix.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: glutenberg
So, you would hire someone you never met without ever questioning who they are, what their motives are, their intelligence level, their skill? Do you hire people based on your pre-conceptions of their race without care of individual skill? Oh how we've advanced so much as a species.

You fall into the "worse" than disingenuous category, then.

If you cared to pick up a couple of books every now and then you might be able to understand why different countries have different problems, and understand it's never because of their people.

How utterly ridiculous a thing to say. A country is motivated and made up by its peoples, they directly determine its course.

Socio: We shouldn't want Hispanic people in charge in the US. Just look at what a crappy job they did in Central and South America! Hence, I infer Hispanic people must somehow be fundamentally inferior to whites. PS. I'm a big racist.

Me: No, people and cultures are products of the conditions and stressors that they are placed on while they are formed. This is why they are different. The culture is the product, not the cause. Here, I'll even cite a book that is dedicated to in depth analysis on this. To blame it on what you are blaming it on is racist.

Skoorb: But people are still different!

I thought my little analogy would make it easy for you, but you're still missing the point. Let's say hispanics generally are from failed nations when compared to the US. Now, is that because they are genetically predisposed to failure? If so, that's a problem. If it's not, and it's because of cultural reasons, obviously a new immigrant won't be wiped clean of their homeland's view on things, so maybe that's still a problem.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

EVER? That is amazing.

Anyway, this thread is f**king retarded now. I'm stupider for wasting time in it. Continue on.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Rainsford


Fine, you're all a bunch of bigoted idiots. I can't believe that it's 2007 and skin color, language, religion, etc, are the primary factors in how some people treat and judge a person instead of how that person acts. It's truly mind boggling. This isn't a damn Klan meeting, what the hell do I care whether the guy who lives next to me is named Bob or Carlos?

I'm thinking Bob and Carlos can get along just fine, but we're guaranteed to have some problems between Bubba and Diego.

Like the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. If it's not Hispanics, it's Muslims or blacks or Catholics or Protestants or the Irish or Germans or Jews or Asians...

I can't help but notice/point out that you avoid using the term "illegals" in the discussion. I have ZERO problems with people coming to this country legally, which affords us the opportunity to be selective and get the best we people we can. While that may appear to some to be heartless I see it as "tough love".

Indeed, because *I* can't help but notice how the term "illegals" seems to be pretty tangential to this conversation. At best, it's used interchangeably with Hispanics (like in the article), at worst it's completely left out (like in most of the negative comments in this thread). If you want to have a discussion about illegal immigration, that's fine, but that's not what this particular thread is about.

I submit to you that "illegals" are immigrants also and like it or not you can't discuss one without discussing the other.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Rainsford


Fine, you're all a bunch of bigoted idiots. I can't believe that it's 2007 and skin color, language, religion, etc, are the primary factors in how some people treat and judge a person instead of how that person acts. It's truly mind boggling. This isn't a damn Klan meeting, what the hell do I care whether the guy who lives next to me is named Bob or Carlos?

I'm thinking Bob and Carlos can get along just fine, but we're guaranteed to have some problems between Bubba and Diego.

Like the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. If it's not Hispanics, it's Muslims or blacks or Catholics or Protestants or the Irish or Germans or Jews or Asians...

I can't help but notice/point out that you avoid using the term "illegals" in the discussion. I have ZERO problems with people coming to this country legally, which affords us the opportunity to be selective and get the best we people we can. While that may appear to some to be heartless I see it as "tough love".

So, I am sick of this "getting the best people we can" bullshit. It shouldn't be about that, it should be about not getting the worst. For any nation to function well, it can't have only the best...it needs a mix.

What the matter, afraid of some competition or just hooked on cheap labor?

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: glutenberg
So, you would hire someone you never met without ever questioning who they are, what their motives are, their intelligence level, their skill? Do you hire people based on your pre-conceptions of their race without care of individual skill? Oh how we've advanced so much as a species.

You fall into the "worse" than disingenuous category, then.

If you cared to pick up a couple of books every now and then you might be able to understand why different countries have different problems, and understand it's never because of their people.

How utterly ridiculous a thing to say. A country is motivated and made up by its peoples, they directly determine its course.

Socio: We shouldn't want Hispanic people in charge in the US. Just look at what a crappy job they did in Central and South America! Hence, I infer Hispanic people must somehow be fundamentally inferior to whites. PS. I'm a big racist.

Me: No, people and cultures are products of the conditions and stressors that they are placed on while they are formed. This is why they are different. The culture is the product, not the cause. Here, I'll even cite a book that is dedicated to in depth analysis on this. To blame it on what you are blaming it on is racist.

Skoorb: But people are still different!

I thought my little analogy would make it easy for you, but you're still missing the point. Let's say hispanics generally are from failed nations when compared to the US. Now, is that because they are genetically predisposed to failure? If so, that's a problem. If it's not, and it's because of cultural reasons, obviously a new immigrant won't be wiped clean of their homeland's view on things, so maybe that's still a problem.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

EVER? That is amazing.

Anyway, this thread is f**king retarded now. I'm stupider for wasting time in it. Continue on.

This thread was "f*ing retarded" a long way back, and your posts have certainly moved it further along that path. Anyone who can make gross generalizations about ethnic groups based on the "success" of individual nations, and then tell someone else to "pick up a book now and then" is at the very height of irony.

There are a LOT of factors that go into what makes a culture thrive, and many of those factors are completely external to the people who make up that society. Was Jewish society inferior to the Assyrians? Is Egypt a superior society, because they were one of the great ancient cultures, or are the inferior, because today they are a minor player in the Middle East?

You need to quit telling other people they are ignorant and their comments are retarded, because your positions could be dismissed by the average high school junior with minimal intellectual effort. Hell, even my 5 year old understands cultural sensitivity better than you do, based on this thread.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I bet Romans used to have these types of discussions in the Senate as well as in the streets, during the Antonine dynasty.

"My dear Cassius, what's with all these barbarians flocking to Rome, crowding the streets, encouraging thievery and the worshipping of strange foreign gods? Why, I swear by Jupiter's sandals that Greek and Thracian languages are more often heard in some quarters than our noble Latin! Praetorians, be vigilent! I tell you, the Homeland is in danger!

Why can't these conquered people accept their submission and stay in their backwater huts, where they belong! But no, now they got equal rights with other Roman subjects, so they come to the centre of the world... how long before they will take over?"

Well, actually they didn't, considering the well-known Roman practice of extending citizenship to all the conquered barbarian people. Actually a few Roman emperors were barbarians themselves (including Hadrian, who was born in Spain; Claudius who was a Gaul or Caracalla, born in Gaul but of Arab descent).

I know, that was precisely my point - see the italicized part - and I think you're wrong about Claudius, the fifth emperor in the Julian dynasty, who was purely Roman, albeit born in Gaul 😀

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: glutenberg
So, you would hire someone you never met without ever questioning who they are, what their motives are, their intelligence level, their skill? Do you hire people based on your pre-conceptions of their race without care of individual skill? Oh how we've advanced so much as a species.

You fall into the "worse" than disingenuous category, then.

If you cared to pick up a couple of books every now and then you might be able to understand why different countries have different problems, and understand it's never because of their people.

How utterly ridiculous a thing to say. A country is motivated and made up by its peoples, they directly determine its course.

Socio: We shouldn't want Hispanic people in charge in the US. Just look at what a crappy job they did in Central and South America! Hence, I infer Hispanic people must somehow be fundamentally inferior to whites. PS. I'm a big racist.

Me: No, people and cultures are products of the conditions and stressors that they are placed on while they are formed. This is why they are different. The culture is the product, not the cause. Here, I'll even cite a book that is dedicated to in depth analysis on this. To blame it on what you are blaming it on is racist.

Skoorb: But people are still different!

I thought my little analogy would make it easy for you, but you're still missing the point. Let's say hispanics generally are from failed nations when compared to the US. Now, is that because they are genetically predisposed to failure? If so, that's a problem. If it's not, and it's because of cultural reasons, obviously a new immigrant won't be wiped clean of their homeland's view on things, so maybe that's still a problem.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

EVER? That is amazing.

Anyway, this thread is f**king retarded now. I'm stupider for wasting time in it. Continue on.

Well...if you really believe things are really that black and white, then you are far more ignorant than I suspected.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Socio: We shouldn't want Hispanic people in charge in the US. Just look at what a crappy job they did in Central and South America! Hence, I infer Hispanic people must somehow be fundamentally inferior to whites. PS. I'm a big racist.

Me: No, people and cultures are products of the conditions and stressors that they are placed on while they are formed. This is why they are different. The culture is the product, not the cause. Here, I'll even cite a book that is dedicated to in depth analysis on this. To blame it on what you are blaming it on is racist.

Skoorb: But people are still different!

I thought my little analogy would make it easy for you, but you're still missing the point. Let's say hispanics generally are from failed nations when compared to the US. Now, is that because they are genetically predisposed to failure? If so, that's a problem. If it's not, and it's because of cultural reasons, obviously a new immigrant won't be wiped clean of their homeland's view on things, so maybe that's still a problem.

Anyway, this thread is f**king retarded now. I'm stupider for wasting time in it. Continue on.

Ahhhh... and now we've finally found the point at which you didn't read, and started off into your retarded journey.

First of all you are raising the question if Hispanics are genetically predisposed towards failure. I'll ignore the fact that your little thought experiment explicitly removed this aspect and now you're coming back around to it... because the idea is so stupid and so without scientific basis of any kind that it is not worth addressing beyond whatever four letter adjective someone would chose to label it with.

Then you go on to talk about new immigrants somehow. I never mentioned new immigrants. I specifically took issue with Socio's assertion that Hispanics should not govern the US because of their record in Latin America. (and just in case you didn't know there are huge numbers of American born, fully assimilated, American citizen type Hispanic Americans walking around that are in fact in leadership positions in America that seem to be doing just fine). That's super racist, and super ignorant. You can argue about new immigrants in leadership positions all you want, but you won't argue it with me...because I'm not going to let you argue based on what you wish I said as opposed to what I said.

You probably should leave this thread now though, because I'm going to keep crapping on you in it until you either admit that you're just completely wrong, or that you didn't take the simple time to read some people's postings before opening your fat mouth.