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Hispanic growth extends eastward

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I live in Los Angeles and I am in my thirties. In the small amount of time I have lived I have seen whole areas around LA turn into what I can only describe as something from the third world. The river I use to play in when I was a kid is fenced off and covered in graffiti. There are people with shopping carts ringing bells selling ice cream and tacos walking along all the residential sidewalks. I went down this one major street though LA and everything for miles was in other languages and people were just eating on the sidewalk as if they were at a park and I even saw some chickens running around. They believe that there is no reason to learn English and why should they there are whole areas now that are 99% Hispanic.

My dad still lives in a city called Bell Gardens, I remember at one time in the paper the whole city council became Hispanic and flew the Mexican flag above the American flag at city hall until a lot of people complained. When I was a teenager it was really hard for me to get a job in the area I lived and when I did I was made to feel very unwelcome and people would speak Spanish around me. I eventually moved out of that area and I have black and even some Hispanic friends that feel the same and think things are out of control.

Like everyone here most of my family came here to follow their dreams. My grandparents on my dad?s side came from Italy and you will never see my dad or aunts and uncles waiving a Italian flag or hanging one in front of his house or on his car like his neighbors, or speaking Italian.

As far as crime goes my dad has been burglarized about 5 times, and I would say about 95% of the crimes committed against me were caused by Hispanics this includes two robberies, one stolen car, and many burglaries, and one identity theft (after burglary phone account was opened in Huntington Park 99.99% Hispanic my car was also found there. Also two car accident no license or insurance. I know a lot of this can be blamed on social economic reasons but that hasn?t helped me. Most Hispanics that come are hard working people but when they raise there children not speaking English at home and they do bad at school I guess its easier to turn to crime.


They say that we need cheap labor. I have traveled all over the US on business and whom do I see doing the jobs in the north and parts of mid west. The work at the mall, fast food, car wash, on and on, usually Americans may they be teenagers, retired, or just someone trying to make a little side cash. Here in California forget it. You use to be able to make living driving a truck, construction, among other hard jobs now all those job pay nothing. I tried to get the union in at a oil company that I worked for when I was 19 (I was one of four white people not in management and no blacks.) The owners said go ahead we will just fire you all and the Hispanics caved because they knew they had made the job worthless.

I work with a very diverse group of people half of which are from other counties and all came legally and have become US citizens, and they all ask me what the @%#@ is wrong here why does the US let this one group do this!

One of two things that would help would be for everyone to speak English. Language is at least something that a county of many races can all have in common to hold us all together. And second would be to change the constitution so that at least one parent has to be a US citizen to be born an American.

I know people are going to call me racists but I can only write about what I see.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Alternate headline: "Racists in new areas given opportunity to shine"

Alternate headlines:

"Illegal aliens increasing people's health insurance premiums, auto insurance premiums, and school taxes."

"Illegal alien influx leads to overcrowding in the state's prisons. State's prison system now overburdened."

"Illegal aliens force local small hospital into bankruptcy."

"State can no longer provide as much welfare and assistance for the poor as poor immigrant population explodes."

"Illegal aliens' machismo leads to higher rates of drunk driving, more dangerous streets."

"Schools suffer overcrowding, budget crunches as influx of illegal alien children crowds classrooms and forces schools to hire bilingual teachers."

"U.S. population exploding at a third world rate of growth! Expected to exceed 450 million by 2050."

"Real estate prices and demand for land skyrockets as population explosion increases demand for housing and land. Poor and lower middle class to suffer."


I'm sure I could go on an on. What's sad is that "geniuses" like yourself feel compelled to pull out the race card instead of addressing the substantive issues. Heck, you're probably not even aware of the substantive issues. It's all just mean Whities wanting to keep out those nice Hispanic folk to you.

 
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Oh boo hoo, Americans want their cheap labor, for the jobs that they won't do because they themselves won't pay what an American wants to get, well guess what now everybody gets to pay and pay we will.

I've been trying to explain this to my fellow Americans. You can't get something for nothing and you can't produce more than you consume. However, you can import poverty and overpopulate the country. Sadly, most people aren't going to get it.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rainsford


Fine, you're all a bunch of bigoted idiots. I can't believe that it's 2007 and skin color, language, religion, etc, are the primary factors in how some people treat and judge a person instead of how that person acts. It's truly mind boggling. This isn't a damn Klan meeting, what the hell do I care whether the guy who lives next to me is named Bob or Carlos?

I'm thinking Bob and Carlos can get along just fine, but we're guaranteed to have some problems between Bubba and Diego.

Like the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. If it's not Hispanics, it's Muslims or blacks or Catholics or Protestants or the Irish or Germans or Jews or Asians...


I can't help but notice/point out that you avoid using the term "illegals" in the discussion. I have ZERO problems with people coming to this country legally, which affords us the opportunity to be selective and get the best we people we can. While that may appear to some to be heartless I see it as "tough love".

Indeed, because *I* can't help but notice how the term "illegals" seems to be pretty tangential to this conversation. At best, it's used interchangeably with Hispanics (like in the article), at worst it's completely left out (like in most of the negative comments in this thread). If you want to have a discussion about illegal immigration, that's fine, but that's not what this particular thread is about.
 
Originally posted by: rpanic
I live in Los Angeles and I am in my thirties. In the small amount of time I have lived I have seen whole areas around LA turn into what I can only describe as something from the third world. The river I use to play in when I was a kid is fenced off and covered in graffiti. There are people with shopping carts ringing bells selling ice cream and tacos walking along all the residential sidewalks. I went down this one major street though LA and everything for miles was in other languages and people were just eating on the sidewalk as if they were at a park and I even saw some chickens running around. They believe that there is no reason to learn English and why should they there are whole areas now that are 99% Hispanic.

My dad still lives in a city called Bell Gardens, I remember at one time in the paper the whole city council became Hispanic and flew the Mexican flag above the American flag at city hall until a lot of people complained. When I was a teenager it was really hard for me to get a job in the area I lived and when I did I was made to feel very unwelcome and people would speak Spanish around me. I eventually moved out of that area and I have black and even some Hispanic friends that feel the same and think things are out of control.

Like everyone here most of my family came here to follow their dreams. My grandparents on my dad?s side came from Italy and you will never see my dad or aunts and uncles waiving a Italian flag or hanging one in front of his house or on his car like his neighbors, or speaking Italian.

As far as crime goes my dad has been burglarized about 5 times, and I would say about 95% of the crimes committed against me were caused by Hispanics this includes two robberies, one stolen car, and many burglaries, and one identity theft (after burglary phone account was opened in Huntington Park 99.99% Hispanic my car was also found there. Also two car accident no license or insurance. I know a lot of this can be blamed on social economic reasons but that hasn?t helped me. Most Hispanics that come are hard working people but when they raise there children not speaking English at home and they do bad at school I guess its easier to turn to crime.


They say that we need cheap labor. I have traveled all over the US on business and whom do I see doing the jobs in the north and parts of mid west. The work at the mall, fast food, car wash, on and on, usually Americans may they be teenagers, retired, or just someone trying to make a little side cash. Here in California forget it. You use to be able to make living driving a truck, construction, among other hard jobs now all those job pay nothing. I tried to get the union in at a oil company that I worked for when I was 19 (I was one of four white people not in management and no blacks.) The owners said go ahead we will just fire you all and the Hispanics caved because they knew they had made the job worthless.

I work with a very diverse group of people half of which are from other counties and all came legally and have become US citizens, and they all ask me what the @%#@ is wrong here why does the US let this one group do this!

One of two things that would help would be for everyone to speak English. Language is at least something that a county of many races can all have in common to hold us all together. And second would be to change the constitution so that at least one parent has to be a US citizen to be born an American.

I know people are going to call me racists but I can only write about what I see.

Your long rant aside, that bolded sentence is really the only one that matters. Reality isn't supposed to "help you", it is just the way things are. The stats on race and crime are pretty clear, what separates the racists from the rest of us is whether or not we think that reality is EXPLAINED by race or simply a close correlation cause by a hidden third factor. By whether or not the solution is to try and make sure there are fewer poor people or to "keep out the Hispanics".

It's not really relevant to the conversation, but I'm not sure European immigrants are the perfect model to follow either. My grandparents on both sides came from various European countries, and despite only one generation of separation, I don't know shit about any of them. For all practical purposes, my cultural heritage began in 1930. I'm not so sure that's a good thing...just because someone is immigrating doesn't mean their previous culture is something to be cast aside as quickly as possible. I don't agree with avoiding learning the language or flying another flag above the American flag, but I don't think ALSO speaking another language or keeping some customs from the "old country" are too bad an idea either.
 
When my descendent came here it was to live the American dream. To start a new life and leave everything behind and try to live a better life. Many Hispanics that have been coming here that last 30 years don?t feel that they need to become an American and wish to only make a living and bring along all of the things that have caused problems in there countries. I think part of this problem is that our government encourages this and is trying to create a group of poorly educated second-class citizens at the expense of the American people. Hispanics not all but in general are probably the least adaptive group to ever mass immigrate because of all of the entitlements that have been implemented with no enforcement of laws.

A friend of mine told me a funny story once. When his wife passed away in the Philippines he brought his son to the US. When he took his son to the DMV to get his license his son said look dad I can take the test in Tagalong. My friend then took his son for a drive and said look what does that sign say ?STOP? and what does that sign say ?DO NOT ENTER?. My friend then told his son do you see any signs in Tagalong and the son said no. My friend than told his son that?s why you?re going to take the dam test in English.

My wife also told me when she was working on her MSW that the professor asked the class if you would work harder to provide social services for a person of the same race, a Hispanic in her class said yes without even thinking about it (wife was appalled). Seems pretty bold but just goes to show you.


Our Cities are becoming so vulcanized with Hispanics that they have made their own little countries inside of the US. Now we have whole major cities that have become ?Illegal Safe Havens?.

I don't know were other people live or have had to deal with this problem, but I have to deal with it every day. I think the only thing that members of our government have to experience is when they pay Jose the gardener. I don?t think they have to deal with the reality of what regular people have to live with.
 
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Alternate headline: "Racists in new areas given opportunity to shine"

Alternate headlines:

"Illegal aliens increasing people's health insurance premiums, auto insurance premiums, and school taxes."

"Illegal alien influx leads to overcrowding in the state's prisons. State's prison system now overburdened."

"Illegal aliens force local small hospital into bankruptcy."

"State can no longer provide as much welfare and assistance for the poor as poor immigrant population explodes."

"Illegal aliens' machismo leads to higher rates of drunk driving, more dangerous streets."

"Schools suffer overcrowding, budget crunches as influx of illegal alien children crowds classrooms and forces schools to hire bilingual teachers."

"U.S. population exploding at a third world rate of growth! Expected to exceed 450 million by 2050."

"Real estate prices and demand for land skyrockets as population explosion increases demand for housing and land. Poor and lower middle class to suffer."


I'm sure I could go on an on. What's sad is that "geniuses" like yourself feel compelled to pull out the race card instead of addressing the substantive issues. Heck, you're probably not even aware of the substantive issues. It's all just mean Whities wanting to keep out those nice Hispanic folk to you.


ROFL Funny!! If you don't mind I'll borrow it to stuff up the nose of those race card people next time😀
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford

It's not really relevant to the conversation, but I'm not sure European immigrants are the perfect model to follow either. My grandparents on both sides came from various European countries, and despite only one generation of separation, I don't know shit about any of them. For all practical purposes, my cultural heritage began in 1930. I'm not so sure that's a good thing...just because someone is immigrating doesn't mean their previous culture is something to be cast aside as quickly as possible. I don't agree with avoiding learning the language or flying another flag above the American flag, but I don't think ALSO speaking another language or keeping some customs from the "old country" are too bad an idea either.



I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
In European countries like Denmark or Sweden, most people knows more than one languages. But then, those are citizens of their countries.

What's different today is, Spanish speaking people got their own TV Channel. Europeans immigrants didnt' have Italian channel, German channel, Irish channel (well, it's English but weird sounding anyway), and they have to learn the language fast or else. Today, Hispanics dont' have to listen to English in your home because they got their own TV channel in their own native language. This creates certain barrier in cross culture immersion.

Another difference is, geographical distance. Europeans have to travel across the Atlantic to come to USA, and once they arrive they can't go back easily. They might think of themselves as "whichever European countries they were from", but they are too far from homeland to connect to their country of origin.
South Americans don't have this problem. They can go back and forth. America isn't a final destination as much as temporary home. Loyalty belongs more to old 'motherland', as you can see which country's flag they prefer to wave around.
 
I know people are going to call me racists but I can only write about what I see.
It's easier for them to dismiss is having never been around it. I can tell you from living in Alabama, teaming with illegals, that it will change a person's perspective. Now that I'm in NY state I have seen probably 10 Mexicans in 10 months, TOTAL. The house being built next to mine is being built by whites. The only minority I see here are blacks. Living here it would be hard to take illegal immigration seriously, because there just isn't that much of it here. When a person is driving to work and seeing every new house being built entirely by Mexicans, the only whites being those who are managing the operation, it changes one's perspective.
The stats on race and crime are pretty clear, what separates the racists from the rest of us is whether or not we think that reality is EXPLAINED by race or simply a close correlation cause by a hidden third factor.
You can lead a horse to water, you can't force it to drink. Notice how when a dead beat trailer trash idiot wins the lottery they quickly blow it? Stastically noted, historically consistent. They are still the same person. If you notice a particular trend that may not be caused by race but is associated with it, it makes sense to think that there will be a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree. It doesn't matter that scientifically all races may be equal (which of course they are not, for if they were they'd not be of different races in the first place), what matters is their background and aspirations and culture and these factors are associated with race.
I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
Depends, doesn't it? If an immigrant is from a non-sh*t country, then probably they will add something positive to the US. If a person immigrated from Somalia, one of the crapiest crap-fests on the planet, we probably don't want them giving us ideas on government and politics.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I know people are going to call me racists but I can only write about what I see.
It's easier for them to dismiss is having never been around it. I can tell you from living in Alabama, teaming with illegals, that it will change a person's perspective. Now that I'm in NY state I have seen probably 10 Mexicans in 10 months, TOTAL. The house being built next to mine is being built by whites. The only minority I see here are blacks. Living here it would be hard to take illegal immigration seriously, because there just isn't that much of it here. When a person is driving to work and seeing every new house being built entirely by Mexicans, the only whites being those who are managing the operation, it changes one's perspective.
The stats on race and crime are pretty clear, what separates the racists from the rest of us is whether or not we think that reality is EXPLAINED by race or simply a close correlation cause by a hidden third factor.
You can lead a horse to water, you can't force it to drink. Notice how when a dead beat trailer trash idiot wins the lottery they quickly blow it? Stastically noted, historically consistent. They are still the same person. If you notice a particular trend that may not be caused by race but is associated with it, it makes sense to think that there will be a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree. It doesn't matter that scientifically all races may be equal (which of course they are not, for if they were they'd not be of different races in the first place), what matters is their background and aspirations and culture and these factors are associated with race.
I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
Depends, doesn't it? If an immigrant is from a non-sh*t country, then probably they will add something positive to the US. If a person immigrated from Somalia, one of the crapiest crap-fests on the planet, we probably don't want them giving us ideas on government and politics.

Way to speak about other people's experiences while knowing nothing about it. As I've mentioned in many many previous threads I live in San Diego, about 30 miles from the border. We're supposed to be ground zero for illegal immigration... and I don't think there's a problem in the slightest.
 
Originally posted by: babylon5
Originally posted by: Rainsford

It's not really relevant to the conversation, but I'm not sure European immigrants are the perfect model to follow either. My grandparents on both sides came from various European countries, and despite only one generation of separation, I don't know shit about any of them. For all practical purposes, my cultural heritage began in 1930. I'm not so sure that's a good thing...just because someone is immigrating doesn't mean their previous culture is something to be cast aside as quickly as possible. I don't agree with avoiding learning the language or flying another flag above the American flag, but I don't think ALSO speaking another language or keeping some customs from the "old country" are too bad an idea either.



I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
In European countries like Denmark or Sweden, most people knows more than one languages. But then, those are citizens of their countries.

What's different today is, Spanish speaking people got their own TV Channel. Europeans immigrants didnt' have Italian channel, German channel, Irish channel (well, it's English but weird sounding anyway), and they have to learn the language fast or else. Today, Hispanics dont' have to listen to English in your home because they got their own TV channel in their own native language. This creates certain barrier in cross culture immersion.

Another difference is, geographical distance. Europeans have to travel across the Atlantic to come to USA, and once they arrive they can't go back easily. They might think of themselves as "whichever European countries they were from", but they are too far from homeland to connect to their country of origin.
South Americans don't have this problem. They can go back and forth. America isn't a final destination as much as temporary home. Loyalty belongs more to old 'motherland', as you can see which country's flag they prefer to wave around.

Maybe, but I'm not sure it's really our place to demand that everyone conform to our idea of what it means to become an American...so long as it doesn't hurt me, I don't think I should be able to dictate what language you watch TV in or whether or not you prefer Mexican food to American cuisine. I think not speaking a COMMON language IS a problem that needs to be solved, but I don't see how it hurts me to have a hispanic language channel...we DON'T all have to have exactly the same culture.

I also think the flag thing was little overblown, a group of a few individuals magnified in importance because it pissed people off. If they really preferred Mexico to the US, why would they be so eager to come and stay here?
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I know people are going to call me racists but I can only write about what I see.
It's easier for them to dismiss is having never been around it. I can tell you from living in Alabama, teaming with illegals, that it will change a person's perspective. Now that I'm in NY state I have seen probably 10 Mexicans in 10 months, TOTAL. The house being built next to mine is being built by whites. The only minority I see here are blacks. Living here it would be hard to take illegal immigration seriously, because there just isn't that much of it here. When a person is driving to work and seeing every new house being built entirely by Mexicans, the only whites being those who are managing the operation, it changes one's perspective.
The stats on race and crime are pretty clear, what separates the racists from the rest of us is whether or not we think that reality is EXPLAINED by race or simply a close correlation cause by a hidden third factor.
You can lead a horse to water, you can't force it to drink. Notice how when a dead beat trailer trash idiot wins the lottery they quickly blow it? Stastically noted, historically consistent. They are still the same person. If you notice a particular trend that may not be caused by race but is associated with it, it makes sense to think that there will be a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree. It doesn't matter that scientifically all races may be equal (which of course they are not, for if they were they'd not be of different races in the first place), what matters is their background and aspirations and culture and these factors are associated with race.
I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
Depends, doesn't it? If an immigrant is from a non-sh*t country, then probably they will add something positive to the US. If a person immigrated from Somalia, one of the crapiest crap-fests on the planet, we probably don't want them giving us ideas on government and politics.

Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I know people are going to call me racists but I can only write about what I see.
It's easier for them to dismiss is having never been around it. I can tell you from living in Alabama, teaming with illegals, that it will change a person's perspective. Now that I'm in NY state I have seen probably 10 Mexicans in 10 months, TOTAL. The house being built next to mine is being built by whites. The only minority I see here are blacks. Living here it would be hard to take illegal immigration seriously, because there just isn't that much of it here. When a person is driving to work and seeing every new house being built entirely by Mexicans, the only whites being those who are managing the operation, it changes one's perspective.
The stats on race and crime are pretty clear, what separates the racists from the rest of us is whether or not we think that reality is EXPLAINED by race or simply a close correlation cause by a hidden third factor.
You can lead a horse to water, you can't force it to drink. Notice how when a dead beat trailer trash idiot wins the lottery they quickly blow it? Stastically noted, historically consistent. They are still the same person. If you notice a particular trend that may not be caused by race but is associated with it, it makes sense to think that there will be a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree. It doesn't matter that scientifically all races may be equal (which of course they are not, for if they were they'd not be of different races in the first place), what matters is their background and aspirations and culture and these factors are associated with race.
I don't think knowing second language or keep practicing your cultural heritage is negative.
Depends, doesn't it? If an immigrant is from a non-sh*t country, then probably they will add something positive to the US. If a person immigrated from Somalia, one of the crapiest crap-fests on the planet, we probably don't want them giving us ideas on government and politics.

No, it doesn't depend. Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones. The most obvious example for Hispanics is that they tend to view their family as highly important, which is an area our culture could use a lot of help with.
 

Rainsford Said:
No, it doesn't depend. Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones. The most obvious example for Hispanics is that they tend to view their family as highly important, which is an area our culture could use a lot of help with.

I have had two friends that married into Hispanic families and along with one Hispanic woman that I was friends with. I thought it strange that each of them had a story of the creepy uncle that tries to sleep with all of his nieces. And they thought is was bizarre how in Hispanic culture it not seen as anything that strange. I also don?t know how much of the family thing is out of necessity because in may areas around LA it is very common to see 5 to 10 people living in a small apartment or even more in a house.
 
Originally posted by: rpanic

Rainsford Said:
No, it doesn't depend. Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones. The most obvious example for Hispanics is that they tend to view their family as highly important, which is an area our culture could use a lot of help with.

I have had two friends that married into Hispanic families and along with one Hispanic woman that I was friends with. I thought it strange that each of them had a story of the creepy uncle that tries to sleep with all of his nieces. And they thought is was bizarre how in Hispanic culture it not seen as anything that strange. I also don?t know how much of the family thing is out of necessity because in may areas around LA it is very common to see 5 to 10 people living in a small apartment or even more in a house.

You could not possibly be missing the point by a larger margin than you are right now. You can pick out negative aspects of every people in every culture, which is fine, but this strange obsession by judging an entire culture on the most negative examples possible is driven by something more than critical judgement. I made a broad statement and you countered with "this guy I know". I believe you, but who gives a shit about your two friends...what kind of basis for judgement is that?
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.

Sure you can. Civilization is a veneer, most people still hold the same attitudes their great-great-great grandparents held when you really get right down to it. And the reason is because civilization doesn't require the participation of everyone...the civilized few are dragging the barbarians kicking and screaming into the LAST century, never mind this one. All it takes is the slightest reason, the smallest excuse, to crack that facade and let out what people REALLY think.
 
You are right Rainsford I did go a little off the deep end with that last post, I guess I am just really bitter with this subject. Day in and day out crap is thrown in my face. I am not getting this from watching the news, my opinions are all from my experiences. My wife had a positive outlook too until she moved out of her pocket of sanity, and it just became worse when she became a social worker for child services.

I recently became a father and would like to have one more kid. But I can?t have a bunch without becoming impoverished. My wife and I are already having to think about what private school we are going to send our child to in four years because the public school system here has adapted third world standards except for a few pockets that are a fight to get into. Or we just go the way everyone else has that isn?t Hispanic and just move, is that right?

California pass a proposition called 187 to take away all the free rides (think it passed by like 70-80%) and that got knocked down as discriminating against Illegals!
They just closed down another major hospital Martin Luther King Jr. Harbor this week guess that means the other hospitals are going to get more crowded. I could go on and on about the overwhelming negatives.

So we get cheap labor and then get slammed on the back-end with costs to our infrastructure and damage to our society as a whole.

I was glad to see all the protests last year; I hope it woke up some people because this isn?t just a problem for the border states anymore.
 
I bet Romans used to have these types of discussions in the Senate as well as in the streets, during the Antonine dynasty.

"My dear Cassius, what's with all these barbarians flocking to Rome, crowding the streets, encouraging thievery and the worshipping of strange foreign gods? Why, I swear by Jupiter's sandals that Greek and Thracian languages are more often heard in some quarters than our noble Latin! Praetorians, be vigilent! I tell you, the Homeland is in danger!

Why can't these conquered people accept their submission and stay in their backwater huts, where they belong! But no, now they got equal rights with other Roman subjects, so they come to the centre of the world... how long before they will take over?"
 
Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...
I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.
Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.
Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.
I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.
I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...
I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.
Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.
Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.
I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.
I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.

Oh right, your ignorant generalization was more specific than that. There you go then. Here's a partial list of Somali intellectuals and political figures currently living, working and teaching in the US universities:

Hussein Mataan, PhD

Sheikh Hassan Jaamici, PhD

Dr. Hussein Egal

Dr. Said Isse Mohamud

Prof. Abdirahim Hagi Mohamed

Dr. Abdullahi Ahmed Addow, PhD

Prof. Sidow Abdi Mohamed,

Dr. Abdulqasim Mohamud Ali

Ahmed Omar ?Keli?

Dr. Abdulkadir Ali Egal

Sheikh Ali Mo?allim Musse

Abdillahi Mohamud Hirad

Professor Ali Khalif Galayr

Abdulqadir Mohamed Addow

Said Sheikh

Abdirahman Waberi

Among them are a former Prime Minister, a few diplomats, members of UNDP, a member of the US Commission of Civil rights, an International Law scholar and some of the organizers of the Somali Concern Group.
 
Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
I bet Romans used to have these types of discussions in the Senate as well as in the streets, during the Antonine dynasty.

"My dear Cassius, what's with all these barbarians flocking to Rome, crowding the streets, encouraging thievery and the worshipping of strange foreign gods? Why, I swear by Jupiter's sandals that Greek and Thracian languages are more often heard in some quarters than our noble Latin! Praetorians, be vigilent! I tell you, the Homeland is in danger!

Why can't these conquered people accept their submission and stay in their backwater huts, where they belong! But no, now they got equal rights with other Roman subjects, so they come to the centre of the world... how long before they will take over?"

Well, actually they didn't, considering the well-known Roman practice of extending citizenship to all the conquered barbarian people. Actually a few Roman emperors were barbarians themselves (including Hadrian, who was born in Spain; Claudius who was a Gaul or Caracalla, born in Gaul but of Arab descent).
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Tango
Yeah, East-Africans who know nothing about Politics, just like Mamhood Mamdani, right?

It's always nice to see how people ride cliches and generalizations about entire countries and people without even caring to set their feet in the said country...
I am apparently missing the part where this guy is from Somalia.
Almost every culture has something positive about it that can improve our country, and the general effect of a cultural melting pot tends to be magnification of the positive aspects of the culture and minimization of the negative ones.
Really? Tell that to the Native Americans. Tell that to people in Tibet, tell it to the East Germans, etc ad tedium.
I really can't believe its 2007 and people are having these conversations.
I know you can't, because you read a couple of chapters in a history book in highschool this year and suddenly your concept of the world is so clearly black and white, good and evil that you are viscerally offended by the idea that perhaps it's not quite as simple as your history teacher led you to believe.

Hahaha. Sure. I've seen a lot more of the world then the average bear. I'd put my experience up against anyone's and feel good about it. I'm a long way from high school... I guess it's just my youthful looks that tricked you.

Simply put, people in this thread are trying to attribute the failings of third world nations to racial or cultural deficiencies despite the fact that these failings clearly cut across all ethnic and racial groups when put in similar situations. I cannot believe that in 2007 people still believe in "hurff blurrgffff they're bad 'cause they're brown".

This is why Jared Diamond won that Pulitzer prize for "Guns, Germs, and Steel", because he finally put to rest the idiotic idea that stereotypical racial and cultural attributes were somehow responsible for the differing fates of nations.

I'm not sure why speculating towards others' experiences has become such a big thing to do here, but it's stupid.
 
Americans hate brown skin people so much, that is why they watch Jennifer Lopez and her husband Marc Anthony in movies, and listen to their music.

They become rich and famous because Americans hate brown skin so much. Really.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, that is why they watch George Lopez's sitcom ABC.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, that is why they watch Mario Lopez on Access Hollywood.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, they listen to Ricky Martin's music.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, they listen to Shakira's songs.

Americans hate brown skin people so much, they watch Wilmer Valderrama on That 70's show, because Wilmer Valderrama immigrated from Venezuela to get Americans to hate him. Americans celebrity women hate brown skin so much, that is why Wilmer Valderrama dated around all the American women in Hollywood like Lohan and Hilton. So much hatred!

When will Americans stop hating brown skin people? Making them famous and rich, watching them on TV, movies, listening to their music in their living room inside their home, on their IPod, in theaters?


 
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