HIS, VisionTek, Diamond, Sapphire, or PowerColor

octopus41092

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2008
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I've decided to go and buy a HD4850 and I'm not sure which brand to get. I'm leaning towards HIS because I can get a combo with 2GB of RAM and the total is only $10 more than the other brands except for Visiontek.

However, I've heard that VisionTek offers a lifetime warranty, but I'm not sure if I'll even be keeping it for more than a couple years. Also, I think as of a while ago Powercolor started offering lifetime warranties as well so I might go with that since its cheaper.

So, right now I'm either thinking of HIS unless it's somehow worse, then I'll probably be going with Sapphire or Powercolor.

From the benchmarks on Overclockersclub it overclocks much better than the PowerColor one. But I'm wondering if the difference might be due to the newer version of Catalyst on the Sapphire review. Also, since I'm thinking of changing the cooler I don't know how much of an issues that would be.

Are they all pretty much the same hardware wise or do some have better coolers or overclock better?

Which is the best brand out of these, would it make sense to pay extra money for it?

Also, I'm thinking that if I get a cheaper one I would just get the Artic Cooling AccelS1 for it because supposedly it makes it drop down to 30-40C. So, for the warranty I'm looking for something that will let me change the cooler w/o voiding it.

So, which brand would you go for, and why?
 

LightningRider

Senior member
Feb 16, 2007
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I bought Visiontek solely for the warranty. I think that when it comes to ATi brands, none of them will allow you to change the cooler and keep the warranty.
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
23
81
VisionTek has the best warranty of the lot but they won't cover the card if you've changed the cooler or even overclocked it (and they detect it).

So if you plan to keep it stock buy VisionTek, otherwise just buy whatever's cheapest.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
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Originally posted by: LightningRider
I bought Visiontek solely for the warranty. I think that when it comes to ATi brands, none of them will allow you to change the cooler and keep the warranty.

+1


If the prices are comparable, I'd go with the Visiontek as well. According to their warranty statement, it's a "as long as you own the card" lifetime warranty, not one of those lame "lifetime of the product cycle".
 

Jessica69

Senior member
Mar 11, 2008
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My take on ATi video cards......and this is coming from using a lot of different ATi cards over the years, even before the X800 Pro I still have running in my Mother's system.....

Powercolor is, at least to my eyes, the "poor man's" choice in ATi partner cards. Powercolor tends to cut the number of components on the card to the bare minimum to make them work. Take the 3850/3870 series. If you compare their cards to others, like ASUS, Sapphire, HIS, etc., the MOSFET's on the Powercolor cards are fewer in number and frequently eschew heatsinks that are applied by other partner cards. Powercolor has also sometimes put plain electrolytic caps in place of the solid caps found on other brands....but Powercolor cards tend to be cheaper in a lot of cases.

Sapphire....the biggest selling brand. But heaven help you if you need to RMA one.....you'll then get the pleasure of dealing with Sapphire's forums and GreenGekko, the gatekeeper of all things RMA for Sapphire. Naturally, GG will blame everything but the card as being wrong, esp. if you have the "wrong" power supply, at least in his eyes.....and it doesn't matter if your particular power supply is indeed certified for use for your card by ATi/AMD and Sapphire.....he knows better than ATi about power supplies. Of course, his stupidity really shows when you say you have a Corsair HX620 and he blasts it as being junk and underpowered and his PCP&C 610, what you should have used, is vastly superior because it's made better....despite the fact both are essentially identical power supplies--both made by Seasonic. He'll also blame your motherboard, your RAM, the phase of the moon.....anything but the card. Sapphire may be fine as a brand, but the hassle you have to put up with to get an RMA isn't worth it.

Other brands.....ASUS, Visiontek, Diamond, MSI, HIS, Gigabyte......should be all decent. I've been using ASUS in my last two ATi purchases (2 x 3870 and my new 4850) and have never had a moment's problem with any of them. I do like ASUS' Smart Doctor utility which allows you to control your fan speed without a third party software hack. Haven't heard much negative about Visiontek or HIS either. Diamond and MSI are pretty small players.......both are sold but I honestly don't know many who run them.

Just my two cents' worth of opinion......
 

Chosonman

Golden Member
Jan 24, 2005
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All cards are based on a reference design given out by AMD/ATI and should work the same theoretically.
 

Fattysharp

Member
Nov 23, 2005
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I agree with Jessica. I avoid Sapphire products since i have had a few bad experiences with them RMA wise. The worst was actually shipping me back the exact same part, with the exact same problem, still unwrapped in the same box that i shipped them at my own cost, claiming it was new. No one at sapphire would help me out. I contacted ncix, who was where i ordered from, and they let me refund the broken part, but I had to pay shipping.

I have had poor RMA from MSI cards as well in the past where they lost my RMA, gave me 2 RMA numbers, insisted my RMA never existed. After hearing form them that my RMAs never existed, and they never recieved them, 2 days later a new video card showed up and when i called MSI back to see if they found my RMA, they said they never shipped me a new card.

I stick with HIS and Diamond for ati cards now. Visiontek is also good for their warranty. HIS often has a better package, and I have never had any issues with Diamond cards.

Gigabyte is one of my prefered companies and have been support wise for me. If I can get one of their products, I will often choose it over another if the price is the same.

I ordered the Diamond 4070. it was aobut $20 less then the other brands at Ncix. the diamond 4850 at nicx is $174 cad after MIR.

Holy wall of text.
 

ochadd

Senior member
May 27, 2004
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I have a 3870 from HIS. Bought on launch day through NewEgg and I've always seemed to have minor problems with it. Restarts started happening within a couple weeks. Flashed the bios to a new fan profile which helped some but I still occasionally get the random restart that I'm convinced is from the GPU.

No personal experience with their customer service but I've read that it's not good. My preference is to just suffer through it as I wouldn't want to be without my gaming rig while it's being looked at. They probably wouldn't do anything with it anyways as it has been overclocked and flashed.

Edit: I also have two 120mm in sequence pointing directly at the back of these cards. Airflow is not an issue with these.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
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HIS and Sapphire seem to have very bad warranty services from what I've read here in the past. Apparently HIS refuses to handle RMAs themselves at all and relies on third party distributors to do it, while Sapphire charges some sort of (non-shipping related) service fee for a replacement. I am just repeating what I have seen people say here though and haven't dealt with either company myself.

If you buy these cards from Newegg though, you get Newegg's own warranty for a year without any extra costs. They should probably be easier to deal with.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
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Ochadd, your card's failure couldn't supposedly have anything to do with you overclocking and reflashing it ?
 

octopus41092

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2008
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Well, if HIS is asking the 3rd party distributors to handle the RMA it shouldn't be too big of a problem since I'm ordering from newegg and they have good customer service. But, I'm guessing that my best bet would be to get the video card test it, and if everything works then swap out the cooler? Also, I'm guessing that if everything works in the first week and nothing breaks it should be fine?
 

RamarC

Member
Apr 5, 2004
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but afaik, right now every hd 4850 and hd 4870 follows the reference design and is identical (except for the sticker).
 

ddarko

Senior member
Jun 18, 2006
264
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81
Originally posted by: CP5670
HIS and Sapphire seem to have very bad warranty services from what I've read here in the past. Apparently HIS refuses to handle RMAs themselves at all and relies on third party distributors to do it, while Sapphire charges some sort of (non-shipping related) service fee for a replacement. I am just repeating what I have seen people say here though and haven't dealt with either company myself.

Actually, Sapphire is the same as HIS, it doesn't service the card itself, it actually tells you to go to your RETAILER. Here's the first sentence of their warranty, taken straight off the site:

"Sapphire VGA products carry a 2 year warranty with all enquires carried out through your initial place of purchase. "

Good luck taking your card that died on you six months after you bought it to Best Buy where a mystified sales associate will look at you like you're crazy when you tell them the card's warranty requires you get tech support from Best Buy. Yep, that's going to end well.

Originally posted by: RamarC
but afaik, right now every hd 4850 and hd 4870 follows the reference design and is identical (except for the sticker).

Actually, I don't think it's necessarily true that because all the cards follow the reference design, they must all identical, i.e. they all use the same parts and materials. A reference design says something like "X part must provide Y performance" but the manufacturer has the discretion what materials and components to use to achieve that performance. As Jessica69 pointed out above, it appears some card makers use cheaper or fewer parts. They're still in spec but it's not the same safety margin or quality provided by another maker that may use better materials or higher quality components. What you said would be true if all the cards were made in the same plant and some cards got Sapphire stickers slapped on them and others got Visiontek stickers. But can anyone actually confirm whether or not all the ATI cards come from the same factory?

In any case, even if we assume all the cards are identical and therefore, all the cards have the same rate of failure, how does that diminish the importance of the warranty? OK, so an Asus owner is just as likely/unlikely to have his card fail as a Sapphire owner. But according to the posts here, an Asus owner with a defective card is VASTLY more likely to get his or her bad card replaced than a Sapphire owner. This difference isn't important? If anything, if it's true that all the cards are the same, then it's a bit irrational to buy from a maker with poor support since you'd be paying the same to get less.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
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My X1900XT and current 2900XT were both Diamond brands. When I had to deal with the RMA process for the X1900XT, communication was often difficult and I had to pay a minor fee for a replacement X1950 Pro. At that point, I already had a 2900XT and the entire point of replacing the defective 1900 was so that I could sell the replacement on ebay.

Diamond would get my vote as the brand I'd most likely buy because I'm already familiar with their RMA process. Visiontek, Asus, HIS, and Sapphire would be next. Asus cards typically carry a higher price for various reasons though.

Since all the cards follow the basic reference design, the battle is a case of warranties and bundles.
 

octopus41092

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2008
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Originally posted by: ddarko
Originally posted by: CP5670
HIS and Sapphire seem to have very bad warranty services from what I've read here in the past. Apparently HIS refuses to handle RMAs themselves at all and relies on third party distributors to do it, while Sapphire charges some sort of (non-shipping related) service fee for a replacement. I am just repeating what I have seen people say here though and haven't dealt with either company myself.

Actually, Sapphire is the same as HIS, it doesn't service the card itself, it actually tells you to go to your RETAILER. Here's the first sentence of their warranty, taken straight off the site:

"Sapphire VGA products carry a 2 year warranty with all enquires carried out through your initial place of purchase. "

Good luck taking your card that died on you six months after you bought it to Best Buy where a mystified sales associate will look at you like you're crazy when you tell them the card's warranty requires you get tech support from Best Buy. Yep, that's going to end well.

Originally posted by: RamarC
but afaik, right now every hd 4850 and hd 4870 follows the reference design and is identical (except for the sticker).

Actually, I don't think it's necessarily true that because all the cards follow the reference design, they must all identical, i.e. they all use the same parts and materials. A reference design says something like "X part must provide Y performance" but the manufacturer has the discretion what materials and components to use to achieve that performance. As Jessica69 pointed out above, it appears some card makers use cheaper or fewer parts. They're still in spec but it's not the same safety margin or quality provided by another maker that may use better materials or higher quality components. What you said would be true if all the cards were made in the same plant and some cards got Sapphire stickers slapped on them and others got Visiontek stickers. But can anyone actually confirm whether or not all the ATI cards come from the same factory?

In any case, even if we assume all the cards are identical and therefore, all the cards have the same rate of failure, how does that diminish the importance of the warranty? OK, so an Asus owner is just as likely/unlikely to have his card fail as a Sapphire owner. But according to the posts here, an Asus owner with a defective card is VASTLY more likely to get his or her bad card replaced than a Sapphire owner. This difference isn't important? If anything, if it's true that all the cards are the same, then it's a bit irrational to buy from a maker with poor support since you'd be paying the same to get less.

Ok, so if I bought a HIS card from Newegg how would the RMA process work? Would I send it in to Newegg and have them give me a new one? Since, from my experience Newegg has very good customer service so I wouldn't have a problem with that. Also I'm changing the cooler anyways so it shouldn't matter too much about the cooler, so if the GPU itself is the same thing between different brands then it wouldn't really matter now would it?
 

ddarko

Senior member
Jun 18, 2006
264
3
81
Originally posted by: octopus41092
Ok, so if I bought a HIS card from Newegg how would the RMA process work? Would I send it in to Newegg and have them give me a new one? Since, from my experience Newegg has very good customer service so I wouldn't have a problem with that. Also I'm changing the cooler anyways so it shouldn't matter too much about the cooler, so if the GPU itself is the same thing between different brands then it wouldn't really matter now would it?

I'm not familiar with the HIS warranty but wouldn't changing the cooler on the card void the warranty? I think one or two of the Nvidia card makers allow you to alter the cooler and still keep the warranty but I don't think any of the ATI card makers do. If you're set on getting a new cooler, you may have to give up your warranty. BTW, same thing with overclocking; many warranties allow the maker to refuse to service your card if it's been overclocked it on the grounds you've operated the card "outside" of spec. Of course, even if the language of the warranty allows a company to screw you over, some companies won't. It depends on the attitude of the company. However, it appears some makers like Sapphire will pretty much try to find any excuse while others are more forgiving.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
After my HIS X1900XTX, died a month after the warranty expired and they have non-existent customer support. I'll never buy anything from them anymore.

I wish the AMD video card companies would offer the same level of support as some of the Nvidia companies (ie. EVGA).
 

octopus41092

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2008
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In that case, I'm probably going to use the card for a week or two before I swap out the cooler in order to make sure it's working properly and doesn't break. Anything that would go wrong would probably go wrong early on.

Also, do you think I should just pay an extra $10 to go with ASUS?
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally posted by: CP5670
HIS and Sapphire seem to have very bad warranty services from what I've read here in the past. Apparently HIS refuses to handle RMAs themselves at all and relies on third party distributors to do it, while Sapphire charges some sort of (non-shipping related) service fee for a replacement. I am just repeating what I have seen people say here though and haven't dealt with either company myself.

If you buy these cards from Newegg though, you get Newegg's own warranty for a year without any extra costs. They should probably be easier to deal with.

i forgot about that, but yes sapphire charges $15 up front to even consider your rma. very shady. -1 sapphire :(
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Yes video brand matters!

I always buy HIS because I find the ICEQ3 cooling to be very efficent and quiet :)

excellent point, I'm anxiously waiting to see prices on iceQ 4850's...

btw, my his 3870 has been great though I haven't had any rma headaches, either. of course, I never would be able to rma it since I also flashed the bios and oc'd it (though it's back to stock bios and stock clocks now).
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally posted by: octopus41092
In that case, I'm probably going to use the card for a week or two before I swap out the cooler in order to make sure it's working properly and doesn't break. Anything that would go wrong would probably go wrong early on.

Also, do you think I should just pay an extra $10 to go with ASUS?

if you don't have to worry about customer service b/c you're changing out the stock cooler, I'd just take whichever one the least expensive. even sapphire has a good card, they just suck if you have problems with it. if they're all the same price, I'd probably go:

VT>asus,diamond>the rest