HIS 4850 blue-screening Vista

[hoppa]

Brand new system, brand new Vista Ultimate install (well, two brand new Vista Ultimate installs). The drivers from the CD (that came with the card) that were 6 months old were bluescreening, so I got the latest from the ATi site and those bluescreen too. Happens as soon as I boot up. Not every time but about 75% of the time. I have yet to see the issue with only default windows drivers installed. I reinstalled the OS and installed the graphics drivers as the very first thing to confirm, and indeed as soon as I booted up with the drivers loaded I bluescreened.

Is it the physical card? The drivers? One thing that is weird is that vanilla 4850 is not listed for drivers on the ATi site, only 4850 X2, which I assume is cross-fire, which I'm not using. Also, when you click for those drivers it takes you to a support page rather than the normal drivers page, and the drivers I downloaded there weren't installing at all. I installed the 4800 series drivers instead.

Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. This is my first experience with Vista and I'm ready to go back to XP already.

 

[Qbah]

The HD4850 is part of the HD4800 series set. Did you try the newest 9.1s? Here's a link:

http://game.amd.com/us-en/driv...vista64/common-vista64

That's for Vista x64.

Can you list your other components? Mobo, PSU would be ideal.

 

[hoppa]

Yep, that's the one I'm using.

I've got an MSI p45 neo and Corsair 450W ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817139003 )

 

[hoppa]

FWIW, I tried reseating the card with no luck. The system boots no problem in safe mode, which makes sense because the video drivers aren't loading up.

 

[hoppa]

I've switched back to my old nVidia 7600gt and it's working fine so far. We'll see after a few more reboots if it acts up but so far so good.

Assuming the nVidia works, what are peoples thoughts on the ati? Is it a hardware issue? Incompatibility issue? ATi drivers just suck?

 

[AzN]

Sounds like a system incompatibility or user error.

 

[hoppa]

User error? As in, I did something wrong? What could it be if so? I literally installed Vista then installed the drivers right from the disk and the thing would blue screen. I've reseated the card. Obviously the hardware is all in place enough that everything else is working perfectly ? wireless internet, sound, dvd burning, etc. And trying a different card works perfectly (again, so far). So I can't see how it would be a user error.

 

[Qbah]

As silly as it may sound, you did plug external power to the card, right?

Also, perhaps try running it in the other slot? Maybe there's a setting in BIOS that caps PCIe to x1 and the card doesn't like it? Apart from that I don't see a solution. A damaged card is my best bet. The 450W Corsair should be plenty.

 

[hoppa]

Yeah, it had external power. The mobo only has one x16 slot, so I cant try it in another one. I'm going to RMA the card and go for a 9800GT.

Thanks for your help.
-andy

 

[Qbah]

Yeah, try it in another rig if you have the option. And the 9800GT will be slower. Though it's a fine card anyway and as long as it will work for you I'm sure you'll be happier than not being able to run anything on a faster HD4850

 

[AzN]

That's usually the case. It's usually user error in 99% of these computer problems. Who knows it could be a faulty card. You won't know until you try it on another system. If it boots fine in safe mode then it's usually not the card but installation. Completely uninstall drivers and reinstall is the best advice I can give you.

Goto safe mode and uninstall with driver cleaner including your Nvidia and ATI video card drivers and start from there.

 

[Qbah]

Azn... how can there be a user error when he puts the card in, installs a fresh Vista and then pops in the Cats 9.1 Unless there's a setting in BIOS that affects stability this drastically, my bet is there's a hardware problem.

 

[AzN]

I'm not there so I don't know what he did. There could bits and pieces of information missing. In a forum like this that tend to happen more often then not.

It could even be an IRQ conflict but not likely in a modern ACPI system.

 

[hoppa]

Originally posted by: Azn
I'm not there so I don't know what he did. There could bits and pieces of information missing. In a forum like this that tend to happen more often then not.

There is no info missing. I literally did exactly what I said: fresh install of Vista Ultimate, installed the graphics drivers from the CD, rebooted and bluescreened. Then I installed wireless drivers and downloaded the brand new 9.1s, rebooted and bluescreened. Reseated the card and bluescreened. I honestly don't see what the user error could be. The entire build went absolutely perfectly every step of the way until those drivers went in. I've been doing this stuff for a long time, I know what I'm doing. The thing is either in the slot or its not. The contacts are perfectly clean.

 

[funboy6942]

Start with the basics. have you checked in your bios to see how much power in general is being drawn? Im going to go out on a limb and say maybe your ps is not supplying the power it really needs. in safe mode the card should be completely underclocked and not drawing too much power, but in regular boot up, before the driver kicks in and kicks back some of the power requirements, it makes the computer fart and give you the bsod.

If that turns out ok, tear everything out but the card, one stick of memory and see if it boots and go from there. Hope this helps, I doubt it is your card because it does go into safe mode, something I wouldnt really think would still go into if your card was fubar.

 

[hoppa]

Is 450W really not enough for this system? I ran a thing online and it seemed like it was more than enough, and the rig was also recommended by a couple folk here.

 

[hoppa]

I ran the Antec power supply calculator again and it's saying 365W max draw, and that's with some embellishments too to play it safe. I guess we'll see, I'm going to RMA and get the nvidia. The vc power isn't really that important to me, I really don't do much pc gaming, I just want something for when whatever good game comes out that I want to play. If the new card has the same issues then I guess it really is the PS. Blech.

 

[funboy6942]

Yes Im going to say that it is not enough considering its running other things in your pc, and most of it is drawing big power off the 12v rail. So if you have a decent cpu, good mobo, a few drives, pci cards, usb stuff plugged in, and you saying your psu says 300~ max draw, then its not really going to matter if you have a ATI or Nvidia, its going to suck the life of the tiny power supply.

3btech.net sells a logisys 550watt sli for around $30 shipped, I been using mine for over a year now without a single problem. I would suggest to you, that if you plan on getting ANY card to play some games down the road that you may want to stick with the 4850 its a great card and will do so. I own a 9800GT and replaced it with a 4850 my self, and its a world of difference not just in games but in moves too for ATI still has the upper hand when it comes to any video you throw at it, and as far as maybe doing 2 screens ati is the easiest to set up in that department as well. But in the long run your psu is your weakest link in your system and Id advise on updating that to something right away. If the new nvidia card you get happens to boot for you, it wont be long that between it, and the rest of your goodies installed will put a strain on your psu and when it goes out, they always tend to take some if not all of anything plugged into it with it, and at that point, your really going to be shelling out the duckits to replace your whole system because of a $30~ investment to a better psu

The main thing you need to look for in a psu aside of max draw, want it as close to 500 watts if you can no matter what is on the box, its the max that you need to worry about, and amps on the 12v line be it a single or dual 12v rail. Want to be over 18 amps, or 18a if you can, and the higher the better with the amps vs its power rating for amps is like a water faucet. say you got a garden hose, thats 16amps, its good for watering the lawn and a few things when the sun comes out, but now you have a field, you need a firehose to keep up with the power draw, and thats pretty much how it works with psu, the more amps, the larger the hose to supply that power to your system. There is a saying, its not the volts that will kill you, its the amps, and in your case with your system its pretty much a lack of both.

Id not rma it just yet, get another psu, look for what I told you, your going to need one anyway, and see then if it boots. And if you go into your bios and see the volts bouncing all over the place and not steady or even near the volts it should normally be at, then your psu needs a replacing asap, she is about to blow, and not in a good blow with happy ending to it

 

[hoppa]

The PSU is brand new, the voltage is all very stable. And it's got 33 amps on the 12v... Even ATi recommends 450w or above on the PSU. I'm googling around and there are plenty of people running the 4850 or 4870 on a 450w. I just really don't buy that it's the PS, sorry.

 

[funboy6942]

OK, NP I was trying to help, no reason to get the panties in a bind over it. I will walk away. Sorry to bother you considering you was asking for help.

 

[hoppa]

I appreciate your help, and I did a lot of research and fiddling after your post about the power supply. However, I don't believe the issue is in the power supply, and I'm not going to drop an extra $50, a ton of work, and another couple weeks without a computer for something I don't believe in. Sorry, but thanks for your input.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: hoppa

Originally posted by: Azn
I'm not there so I don't know what he did. There could bits and pieces of information missing. In a forum like this that tend to happen more often then not.

There is no info missing. I literally did exactly what I said: fresh install of Vista Ultimate, installed the graphics drivers from the CD, rebooted and bluescreened. Then I installed wireless drivers and downloaded the brand new 9.1s, rebooted and bluescreened. Reseated the card and bluescreened. I honestly don't see what the user error could be. The entire build went absolutely perfectly every step of the way until those drivers went in. I've been doing this stuff for a long time, I know what I'm doing. The thing is either in the slot or its not. The contacts are perfectly clean.

Did you wipe your old drivers before installing 9.1?

Delete traces of driver files including your registry. Copying over old drivers sometime messes up your system. I suggest you install Vista again but this time don't install from driver CD first before upgrading to 9.1. Look at your IRQ and see if your video card is sharing with another device. If you have PCI cards in your system I suggest you rearrange them so IRQ doesn't share with the video card. Sound cards are notoriously known to share IRQ with video cards that make systems not function correctly.

 

[spittledip]

If you are going to reinstall Vista again, you could, during the install, choose to install the video drivers. You have the option to install specific drivers during the segment where you create partitions and format them and choose which to install the OS to. You have to have all the driver files on a USB drive and select the .inf file (just like when you are manually installing a driver).

edit: I had to do this for a storage controller driver to stop the system from BSDOding.

2nd edit: Also, what PSU are you using? I am just curious b/c Wattage is not the only consideration when buying a PSU.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: hoppa

Originally posted by: Azn
I'm not there so I don't know what he did. There could bits and pieces of information missing. In a forum like this that tend to happen more often then not.

There is no info missing. I literally did exactly what I said: fresh install of Vista Ultimate, installed the graphics drivers from the CD, rebooted and bluescreened. Then I installed wireless drivers and downloaded the brand new 9.1s, rebooted and bluescreened. Reseated the card and bluescreened. I honestly don't see what the user error could be. The entire build went absolutely perfectly every step of the way until those drivers went in. I've been doing this stuff for a long time, I know what I'm doing. The thing is either in the slot or its not. The contacts are perfectly clean.

Did you wipe your old drivers before installing 9.1?

Delete traces of driver files including your registry. Copying over old drivers sometime messes up your system. I suggest you install Vista again but this time don't install from driver CD first before upgrading to 9.1. Look at your IRQ and see if your video card is sharing with another device. If you have PCI cards in your system I suggest you rearrange them so IRQ doesn't share with the video card. Sound cards are notoriously known to share IRQ with video cards that make systems not function correctly.

It doesn't look like he cleaned his drivers in between the ones from the CD and the Cats... The last time I mixed 2 ATi drivers the computer stopped booting... Completely.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: hoppa

Originally posted by: Azn
I'm not there so I don't know what he did. There could bits and pieces of information missing. In a forum like this that tend to happen more often then not.

There is no info missing. I literally did exactly what I said: fresh install of Vista Ultimate, installed the graphics drivers from the CD, rebooted and bluescreened. Then I installed wireless drivers and downloaded the brand new 9.1s, rebooted and bluescreened. Reseated the card and bluescreened. I honestly don't see what the user error could be. The entire build went absolutely perfectly every step of the way until those drivers went in. I've been doing this stuff for a long time, I know what I'm doing. The thing is either in the slot or its not. The contacts are perfectly clean.

Did you wipe your old drivers before installing 9.1?

Delete traces of driver files including your registry. Copying over old drivers sometime messes up your system. I suggest you install Vista again but this time don't install from driver CD first before upgrading to 9.1. Look at your IRQ and see if your video card is sharing with another device. If you have PCI cards in your system I suggest you rearrange them so IRQ doesn't share with the video card. Sound cards are notoriously known to share IRQ with video cards that make systems not function correctly.

It doesn't look like he cleaned his drivers in between the ones from the CD and the Cats... The last time I mixed 2 ATi drivers the computer stopped booting... Completely.

yeah if this is the case driver cleaner should do the trick