Hiroshima Survivor Stories

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: waggy
hahaha. oh man.

do you have an idea what the Japanese did to other countries? i talking innocent people not the other armies?



while it is sad that it happened to innocents. Japan has no reason to complain about innocent victims.

lets just leave it at that. lets acknowledge the fact that innocent people suffered dearly as a result of our action. its been too long since

Our action? The Japanese government got the country embroiled in a dogfight with the U.S. You want someone to blame for the bombings, blame the Jap govt at the time. ~200k dead from the bombs vs 1+ million dead for an invasion....hrmm, I'll take the bombs please.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Sounds like victory to me.

Put your family in the same situation and see if you say the same thing. Killing your enemy is one thing, inflicting this much death and suffering on innocent people is another.

It's the concept of total war...remove the enemy's will and ability to fight. Civilian industries, workers, etc... they all have to go.

Hiroshima was nothing compared to what the Allies did with some of their firebombing campaigns.

Since this is an internet arguement, I'll use wikipedia as a souce since it's convenient:

The campaign against Dresden:

A Dresden police report written shortly after the attacks stated that the old town and the inner eastern suburbs had been engulfed in a single fire which had destroyed almost 12,000 dwellings including residential barracks. The report also said that the raid had destroyed "24 banks; 26 insurance buildings; 31 stores and retail houses; 647 shops; 64 warehouses; 2 market halls; 31 large hotels; 26 public houses; 63 administrative buildings; 3 theatres; 18 cinemas; 11 churches; 6 chapels; 5 cultural-historical buildings; 19 hospitals including auxiliary, overflow hospitals, and private clinics; 39 schools; 5 consulates; 1 zoological garden; 1 waterworks, 1 railway facility; 19 postal facilities; 4 tram facilities; 19 ships and barges. The report also mentioned that the Wehrmacht's main command post in the Tauschenberg Palace, 19 military hospitals and a number of less significant military facilities were destroyed. Almost 200 factories were damaged, 136 seriously (including several of the Zeiss Ikon optical/precision engineering works), 28 with medium to serious damage, and 35 with light damage.

Any and all concepts of war are without respect for humanity - just pointing that out.

War is hell --General W.T. Sherman

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: randay
Gee, why in the world would hiroshima survivor stories be disturbing? It was only an atomic bomb. gosh what a bunch of drama queens. :disgust::disgust::disgust::disgust:

That's not the point. They never apologized for what they did. Does Nanking have any meaning to you?

while tragic. what did the innocent people have to do with Nanking?

while i do not think Japan should be complaining about atrocity's to the innocent. it does not change the fact that what the survivors went through was disturbing and tragic.

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: waggy
hahaha. oh man.

do you have an idea what the Japanese did to other countries? i talking innocent people not the other armies?



while it is sad that it happened to innocents. Japan has no reason to complain about innocent victims.

lets just leave it at that. lets acknowledge the fact that innocent people suffered dearly as a result of our action. its been too long since

Our action? The Japanese government got the country embroiled in a dogfight with the U.S. You want someone to blame for the bombings, blame the Jap govt at the time. ~200k dead from the bombs vs 1+ million dead for an invasion....hrmm, I'll take the bombs please.

i have to agree. we didn't start it. not to mention a land war would have been far worse then the 2 bombs.

but either way i do have sympathy for ALL the innocent'ts that die in war. sad but it happens.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: pontifex
OH NOES! Japanese propaganda!



thats for the idiots in the Letters From Iwo Jima thread.

Although, I believe dropping the bombs were necessary as they did attack us first, belittling the bomb survivors' accounts and testimonies as Japanese propaganda as very low IMO. Would you pass off Anne Frank's story as Jewish propaganda?

i'm not belittling the stories as propaganda. i'm belittling the people who said this type of stuff was propaganda in the other thread.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Sounds like victory to me.

Put your family in the same situation and see if you say the same thing. Killing your enemy is one thing, inflicting this much death and suffering on innocent people is another.

It's the concept of total war...remove the enemy's will and ability to fight. Civilian industries, workers, etc... they all have to go.

Hiroshima was nothing compared to what the Allies did with some of their firebombing campaigns.

Since this is an internet arguement, I'll use wikipedia as a souce since it's convenient:

The campaign against Dresden:

A Dresden police report written shortly after the attacks stated that the old town and the inner eastern suburbs had been engulfed in a single fire which had destroyed almost 12,000 dwellings including residential barracks. The report also said that the raid had destroyed "24 banks; 26 insurance buildings; 31 stores and retail houses; 647 shops; 64 warehouses; 2 market halls; 31 large hotels; 26 public houses; 63 administrative buildings; 3 theatres; 18 cinemas; 11 churches; 6 chapels; 5 cultural-historical buildings; 19 hospitals including auxiliary, overflow hospitals, and private clinics; 39 schools; 5 consulates; 1 zoological garden; 1 waterworks, 1 railway facility; 19 postal facilities; 4 tram facilities; 19 ships and barges. The report also mentioned that the Wehrmacht's main command post in the Tauschenberg Palace, 19 military hospitals and a number of less significant military facilities were destroyed. Almost 200 factories were damaged, 136 seriously (including several of the Zeiss Ikon optical/precision engineering works), 28 with medium to serious damage, and 35 with light damage.

Any and all concepts of war are without respect for humanity - just pointing that out.

War is hell --General W.T. Sherman

but it's great for business!

 

[CKent]

It's a little scary that, whether it was necessary or not, some people here seem so happy about it. It's no wonder we have a warmonger president when such bloodthirsty people are voting.

 

[Saulbadguy]

I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: CKent
It's a little scary that, whether it was necessary or not, some people here seem so happy about it. It's no wonder we have a warmonger president when such bloodthirsty people are voting.

I wouldn't say happy about it. It was a choice between the lesser of two evils. I'm glad the decision makers had the intestinal fortitude to do what was necessary.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: pontifex
OH NOES! Japanese propaganda!



thats for the idiots in the Letters From Iwo Jima thread.

Although, I believe dropping the bombs were necessary as they did attack us first, belittling the bomb survivors' accounts and testimonies as Japanese propaganda as very low IMO. Would you pass off Anne Frank's story as Jewish propaganda?

i'm not belittling the stories as propaganda. i'm belittling the people who said this type of stuff was propaganda in the other thread.

ah ok. i didnt see the other thread you were referring to.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Sounds like victory to me.

Put your family in the same situation and see if you say the same thing. Killing your enemy is one thing, inflicting this much death and suffering on innocent people is another.

It's the concept of total war...remove the enemy's will and ability to fight. Civilian industries, workers, etc... they all have to go.

Hiroshima was nothing compared to what the Allies did with some of their firebombing campaigns.

Since this is an internet arguement, I'll use wikipedia as a souce since it's convenient:

The campaign against Dresden:

A Dresden police report written shortly after the attacks stated that the old town and the inner eastern suburbs had been engulfed in a single fire which had destroyed almost 12,000 dwellings including residential barracks. The report also said that the raid had destroyed "24 banks; 26 insurance buildings; 31 stores and retail houses; 647 shops; 64 warehouses; 2 market halls; 31 large hotels; 26 public houses; 63 administrative buildings; 3 theatres; 18 cinemas; 11 churches; 6 chapels; 5 cultural-historical buildings; 19 hospitals including auxiliary, overflow hospitals, and private clinics; 39 schools; 5 consulates; 1 zoological garden; 1 waterworks, 1 railway facility; 19 postal facilities; 4 tram facilities; 19 ships and barges. The report also mentioned that the Wehrmacht's main command post in the Tauschenberg Palace, 19 military hospitals and a number of less significant military facilities were destroyed. Almost 200 factories were damaged, 136 seriously (including several of the Zeiss Ikon optical/precision engineering works), 28 with medium to serious damage, and 35 with light damage.

Any and all concepts of war are without respect for humanity - just pointing that out.

War is hell --General W.T. Sherman

but it's great for business!

/halburtan Sure is!

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Sounds like victory to me.

Put your family in the same situation and see if you say the same thing. Killing your enemy is one thing, inflicting this much death and suffering on innocent people is another.

Forced labor and death camps: Check
Using neighboring countries as test subjects in Biowarfare program: Check
Killing millions of civilians invading another country: Check

 

[JulesMaximus]

War is hell...

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: randay
Gee, why in the world would hiroshima survivor stories be disturbing? It was only an atomic bomb. gosh what a bunch of drama queens. :disgust::disgust::disgust::disgust:

That's not the point. They never apologized for what they did. Does Nanking have any meaning to you?

I hope you know I was being sarcastic...

but anyway, what is an apology supposed to do? you think if osama bin laden apologized tomorrow for 9-11 that everything would be fine again? theres no apologizing for acts of war. we didnt accidentally bump into japan while getting off the bus. no victim of a war atrocity should expect an apology, because no apology could ever be enough.

 

[uhohs]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: randay
Gee, why in the world would hiroshima survivor stories be disturbing? It was only an atomic bomb. gosh what a bunch of drama queens. :disgust::disgust::disgust::disgust:

That's not the point. They never apologized for what they did. Does Nanking have any meaning to you?

they have apologized on several occasions, but they do not teach their history in a responsible manner. most japanese people have no clue of what their country did during those days. where the war is mentioned, it often paints japan in a victimized role or ignores the millions of deaths they caused in china, korea, the philipines, southeast asia, etc.

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: waggy
hahaha. oh man.

do you have an idea what the Japanese did to other countries? i talking innocent people not the other armies?



while it is sad that it happened to innocents. Japan has no reason to complain about innocent victims.

lets just leave it at that. lets acknowledge the fact that innocent people suffered dearly as a result of our action. its been too long since

Our action? The Japanese government got the country embroiled in a dogfight with the U.S. You want someone to blame for the bombings, blame the Jap govt at the time. ~200k dead from the bombs vs 1+ million dead for an invasion....hrmm, I'll take the bombs please.

but the fact remains that we dropped the bombs and as a result many innocents suffered. I agree that it was the lesser of two evils and it was necessary. But what Im saying is that its been too long to play the blame game anymore. Lets just leave it at that we dropped the bomb and innocents suffered. Just because japanese army abused and tortured many of their prisoners doesnt justify the suffering of many innocent A-bomb survivors.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: CKent
It's a little scary that, whether it was necessary or not, some people here seem so happy about it. It's no wonder we have a warmonger president when such bloodthirsty people are voting.

I didn't notice any posts here where the person responding seemed happy about it. Jump to conclusions much?

 

[yosuke188]

Originally posted by: uhohs

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: randay
Gee, why in the world would hiroshima survivor stories be disturbing? It was only an atomic bomb. gosh what a bunch of drama queens. :disgust::disgust::disgust::disgust:

That's not the point. They never apologized for what they did. Does Nanking have any meaning to you?

they have apologized on several occasions, but they do not teach their history in a responsible manner. most japanese people have no clue of what their country did during those days. where the war is mentioned, it often paints japan in a victimized role or ignores the millions of deaths they caused in china, korea, the philipines, southeast asia, etc.

And you know this because....

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Ryan
Makes you think twice about dropping bombs, especially considering the cost to the innocent.

Makes you think twice about starting wars with countries more powerful than you and attempting to ethnically cleanse your neighbors.

:thumbsup:

Those against it never remember seem to remember the second part.

 

[Dacalo]

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: adairusmc
Sounds like victory to me.

Put your family in the same situation and see if you say the same thing. Killing your enemy is one thing, inflicting this much death and suffering on innocent people is another.

Yea, tell that to that Japanese. They raped countries around them both literally and figuratively. Imagine your sister being taken away by the Japanese army to be served as "comfort woman," your family being murdered, you being dragged to coal mines to be slaves... Oh they also performed infamous medical experiments on innocent civilians such as pregnant women.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
but it's great for business!

One of the biggest fallacies there is. See: broken window fallacy.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

whenever we have innocent victims it sucks. I feel for all innocent victims, whether they be japanese, chinese, iraqi or american. Lets not dilute their memory with pointless and unnecessary finger pointing.

 

[bcterps]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Ryan
Makes you think twice about dropping bombs, especially considering the cost to the innocent.

Makes you think twice about starting wars with countries more powerful than you and attempting to ethnically cleanse your neighbors.

:thumbsup:

Those against it never remember seem to remember the second part.

I'm not a big history buff, but I have heard that dropping the atomic bombs was completely unnecessary. Japan was on the ropes and their surrender was imminent.

 

[yosuke188]

Originally posted by: benchiu

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Ryan
Makes you think twice about dropping bombs, especially considering the cost to the innocent.

Makes you think twice about starting wars with countries more powerful than you and attempting to ethnically cleanse your neighbors.

:thumbsup:

Those against it never remember seem to remember the second part.

I'm not a big history buff, but I have heard that dropping the atomic bombs was completely unnecessary. Japan was on the ropes and their surrender was imminent.

You could argue the first one was necessary, but dropping a second one when the Japanese had no time to realize the full destruction caused by the bomb was cold.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: waggy
hahaha. oh man.

do you have an idea what the Japanese did to other countries? i talking innocent people not the other armies?



while it is sad that it happened to innocents. Japan has no reason to complain about innocent victims.

lets just leave it at that. lets acknowledge the fact that innocent people suffered dearly as a result of our action. its been too long since

WTF, So the Japanese civilians were innocent, but the Americans at Pearl Harbor weren't? There was no declaration of war or even any military hostilities between the 2 countries then.
Don't start what you can't finish.

 

[eleison]

Hiroshima Survivors -- these are the same people who stood by and did nothing when their government was committing mass atrocities... They deserved it.

As a citizen of any country, you must stand up if your government is doing something bad.. even if it detrimental to your health or to your finances. If you dont, don't expect people to feel pity for you when the shieet hits the fan.