Hiring story - why technical skills aren't all you need.

[notfred]

I was talking to someone over AIM who works for the same place that I do, but is on the other side of the country.

Anyway, short transcript:

him: We have a contractor who is writing scripts to help us monitor hung replications.
him: I am helping him learn perl . . .
me: Seems like they should have hired a contractor who alread knew perl...
him: well . . . it was an an interesting hiring experience; we interviewed a number of people, and there was an inverse relationship between the technical expertise and the social skills of the applicants. We came to the conclusion that it would be easier to teach programming than the ability to work with a team

Anyway, consider that when applying for jobs.

 

[Coquito]

i have social skills & inteligence, but i just don't have the patience to sit through classes so that i can recieve a piece of paper that proves it.

needless to say, i'm unemployed.

 

[TheAudit]

I think that is a given when you go on an interview.
It isn't just about your skills, experience and job history, you have to be able to present yourself as well. I wouldn't want to hire someone who was belligerent.

 

[amnesiac]

Hhahahaha well that does sum up a rather disproportionate amount of computer geeks. Most of the ones I know are nothing short of brilliant, but for the most part socially inept, unable to communicate effectively (via any method - writing, telephone, etc), sloppy, and EXTREMELY short-sighted/closed-minded.

I'd say the trait that many programmers have which gets on my nerves is the complete lack of common sense. I mean they can out-logic me any day of the week but when it comes to having them use any sort of "street smarts" or good old fashioned common sense, they turn retarded. It's actually quite funny.

 

thats how i got my on campus job(s). I asked after I got on why they hired me because many of the other applicants had more experience and qualifications...they said "You could TALK in your interview and give an answer that made sense. The other people froze up, or gave horrid answers."

 

[Yossarian]

When interviewing right before I graduated, I intentionally signed up for interview slots right after the biggest losers I knew. I seemed that much better by comparison

 

[PanzerIV]

Originally posted by: PipBoy
When interviewing right before I graduated, I intentionally signed up for interview slots right after the biggest losers I knew. I seemed that much better by comparison

LOL. Good move

 

[Kadarin]

Often employers will consider who might be the best "fit". While it's a cliched concept, it's still perfectly valid.

 

[thunderhorse]

To begin with I'm not predjuiced. I have good people skills. I've even helped good employes that are on the verge of being fired, help them figure out what their problems are. Then help them keep their jobs.. I went on an interview, I had twice the education and experience required. The job went to a woman of color with a GED. I wasn't mad just frustrated. I was told by a friend of mine that worked there that is was a quota thing. You never know.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Our entire development team interviews any new candidates, and we've passed on several highly-qualified candidates who didn't look like they would fit personality-wise. The ability to fit into the team definitely trumps technical expertise; people can be trained with new skills, but rarely new personalities.

 

[bcterps]

I totally agree. When interviewing people for my team, I was looking for about 25% skills, and 75% "intangibles". Skills can be taught, leadership and integrity are harder to groom.

 

[ThaPerculator]

I'm not prejuiced

Good, because I was just about to plug in my juice-man 8000...

 

[ManSnake]

All you people suck! I am the smartest, I am the brightest, and all of you are slow!!! The obvious reason you didn't hire me was because you are jealous of my skillz!

 

[MaxDepth]

So you hired the first person who didn't snicker at the words, "hung replications."

 

[bcterps]

Originally posted by: Coquito
i have social skills & inteligence, but i just don't have the patience to sit through classes so that i can recieve a piece of paper that proves it. needless to say, i'm unemployed.

I hope your social skills and intelligence are better than your spelling

 

[Descartes]

I've said the same in most IT-related threads; you have to be able to present a business value that is equal to or greater than your technical value to succeed in this business.

However, it's pretty absurd to think that you can simply teach someone "programming." The converse of the argument is true: Those with more social abilities than intellect will not be a proficient programmer, and vice versa. Sure, you can teach a marketing monkey how to create Excel spreadsheets that calculate your birthday, but that's a far, far cry away from being a developer.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: thunderhorse
To begin with I'm not prejuiced. I have good people skills. I've even helped good employes that are on the verge of being fired, help them figure out what their problems are. Then help them keep their jobs.. I went on an interview, I had twice the education and experience required. The job went to a woman of color with a GED. I wasn't mad just frustrated. I was told by a friend of mine that worked there that is was a quota thing. You never know.

Maybe you were prejuiced. Never go to an interview prejuiced.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: notfred
I was talking to someone over AIM who works for the same place that I do, but is on the other side of the country.

Anyway, short transcript:

him: We have a contractor who is writing scripts to help us monitor hung replications.
him: I am helping him learn perl . . .
me: Seems like they should have hired a contractor who alread knew perl...
him: well . . . it was an an interesting hiring experience; we interviewed a number of people, and there was an inverse relationship between the technical expertise and the social skills of the applicants. We came to the conclusion that it would be easier to teach programming than the ability to work with a team

Anyway, consider that when applying for jobs.

i love those kind of guys, because i look extremely good compared to them hence i have an easy time finding jobs

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: Descartes

However, it's pretty absurd to think that you can simply teach someone "programming." The converse of the argument is true: Those with more social abilities than intellect will not be a proficient programmer, and vice versa. Sure, you can teach a marketing monkey how to create Excel spreadsheets that calculate your birthday, but that's a far, far cry away from being a developer.

I think it's pretty absurd to posit a correlation between social and technical skills. While I know of many people who fit the absent-minded professor stereotype, I also know a number of individuals whom I would consider technically brilliant (as both designers and implementors) who are "normal", personable people.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: notfred
I was talking to someone over AIM who works for the same place that I do, but is on the other side of the country.

Anyway, short transcript:

him: We have a contractor who is writing scripts to help us monitor hung replications.
him: I am helping him learn perl . . .
me: Seems like they should have hired a contractor who alread knew perl...
him: well . . . it was an an interesting hiring experience; we interviewed a number of people, and there was an inverse relationship between the technical expertise and the social skills of the applicants. We came to the conclusion that it would be easier to teach programming than the ability to work with a team

Anyway, consider that when applying for jobs.

i love those kind of guys, because i look extremely good compared to them hence i have an easy time finding jobs

What he didn't say was that hubris also often encumbers one's ability to acquire acquire a job

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: thunderhorse
To begin with I'm not prejuiced. I have good people skills. I've even helped good employes that are on the verge of being fired, help them figure out what their problems are. Then help them keep their jobs.. I went on an interview, I had twice the education and experience required. The job went to a woman of color with a GED. I wasn't mad just frustrated. I was told by a friend of mine that worked there that is was a quota thing. You never know.

I believe most people here, myself included, will agree with you that affirmative action is a bad thing.

 

[CraigRT]

that's kinda cool...

neat.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: notfred
I was talking to someone over AIM who works for the same place that I do, but is on the other side of the country.

Anyway, short transcript:

him: We have a contractor who is writing scripts to help us monitor hung replications.
him: I am helping him learn perl . . .
me: Seems like they should have hired a contractor who alread knew perl...
him: well . . . it was an an interesting hiring experience; we interviewed a number of people, and there was an inverse relationship between the technical expertise and the social skills of the applicants. We came to the conclusion that it would be easier to teach programming than the ability to work with a team

Anyway, consider that when applying for jobs.

i love those kind of guys, because i look extremely good compared to them hence i have an easy time finding jobs

What he didn't say was that hubris also often encumbers one's ability to acquire acquire a job

i prefer to use the word confidence as i know i am smarter then the average bear

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: benchiu
I totally agree. When interviewing people for my team, I was looking for about 25% skills, and 75% "intangibles". Skills can be taught, leadership and integrity are harder to groom.

I hear that....and second it!

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw

Originally posted by: Descartes

However, it's pretty absurd to think that you can simply teach someone "programming." The converse of the argument is true: Those with more social abilities than intellect will not be a proficient programmer, and vice versa. Sure, you can teach a marketing monkey how to create Excel spreadsheets that calculate your birthday, but that's a far, far cry away from being a developer.

I think it's pretty absurd to posit a correlation between social and technical skills. While I know of many people who fit the absent-minded professor stereotype, I also know a number of individuals whom I would consider technically brilliant (as both designers and implementors) who are "normal", personable people.

I'm not certain you understood what I said. Do you work in this business? If so, at what capacity? I work with and for groups of developers well into the hundreds, and the same problem resonates through all those unemployed; while passionate they may be, they were not able to project a business value. This is more the case for those operating in a consulting capacity (like myself), but also true for the countless developers who lost their jobs as cubicle monkies simply because they chose to work in isolation.

I posit no correlation between social and technical skills; rather, I am saying that they were two distinct manifestations of value that NEED to be present in order to succeed in what was (seems less to be) a recessing IT industry.