Hillary faints @ ground zero?

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,253
55,805
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You can prove it 10 times over and Jhhnn will still deny it. He's a believer that if you retell a lie often enough, enough people will believe you.

The Clinton 2008 campaign fired a volunteer working in Iowa in 2007 for coming up with the Birther comment, which was emailed in to the campaign. In 2008 when the anointed Clinton was falling behind Obama, Sidney Blumenthal started disseminating "news" to the media that Obama was born in Nigeria.

But the real question today is, when is Clinton going to publicly apologize to Obama and the nation for her racist Birther lies? And has she ever publicly apologized for her obvious 2008 assertion that a black man as president, couldn't or wouldn't get up at 3:00 AM when a national emergency arose? Still waiting on that one too.

Do you really believe what you just wrote? If so you are so so far in the right wing news bubble that you've lost all contact with reality. This ridiculous attempt to pin Trump's birtherism on Clinton has to be one of the saddest displays of naked partisanship overwhelming rational thought that I have ever seen. I mean who do you think you're fooling other than yourselves? This was only a couple years ago, isn't it a little early to start trying to rewrite history?

Embarrassing.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,253
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Well its true if you tell a lie enough people will believe it. There is a reason so many believe Obama is a Muslim. I was able to dig up a few examples that Jhhnn asked for, but there are far more examples from the right.

It's a perfect example of what conservatives are trying to do right now. I think they believe if they repeat that birtherism is somehow Clinton's fault enough times they can either get people to believe it or at least muddy the water enough that Trump's racism looks less bad.

Ugly business if you care about facts or objective reality.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
It's a perfect example of what conservatives are trying to do right now. I think they believe if they repeat that birtherism is somehow Clinton's fault enough times they can either get people to believe it or at least muddy the water enough that Trump's racism looks less bad.

Ugly business if you care about facts or objective reality.

Goddamn politics.

The fact that people don't understand the damage Trump could do with his isolationist policies is scary. Building a wall would be the least of my worries with Trump, yet those are so unimportant to people.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
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Do you really believe what you just wrote? If so you are so so far in the right wing news bubble that you've lost all contact with reality. This ridiculous attempt to pin Trump's birtherism on Clinton has to be one of the saddest displays of naked partisanship overwhelming rational thought that I have ever seen. I mean who do you think you're fooling other than yourselves? This was only a couple years ago, isn't it a little early to start trying to rewrite history?

Embarrassing.

Like Sidney Blumenthal, you attribute everything negative thing said about Clinton, as a vast right-wing conspiracy.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/repor...irther-rumors-in-2008-updated/article/2004385

What mystifies me, is why it took Trump so long to get this story out. Trump resolved the bitherism question back in 2011. But it is Clinton who has brought it up again this year. Part of her dirty campaign tactics.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Like Sidney Blumenthal, you attribute everything negative thing said about Clinton, as a vast right-wing conspiracy.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/repor...irther-rumors-in-2008-updated/article/2004385

What mystifies me, is why it took Trump so long to get this story out. Trump resolved the bitherism question back in 2011. But it is Clinton who has brought it up again this year. Part of her dirty campaign tactics.

Trump took the birther shit and ran with it. I remember when he was questioned he said he found very interesting things. There were no interesting things to find, so it was BS.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
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56
Trump took the birther shit and ran with it. I remember when he was questioned he said he found very interesting things. There were no interesting things to find, so it was BS.
It was interesting enough for Obama to release his long form birth certificate in 2011. After that Trump said he was fine with it. Clinton should apologize, and at the least acknowledge the role that she and her campaign played in all that.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
It was interesting enough for Obama to release his long form birth certificate in 2011. After that Trump said he was fine with it. Clinton should apologize, and at the least acknowledge the role that she and her campaign played in all that.

So what was "very interesting" during his investigation?
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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It was interesting enough for Obama to release his long form birth certificate in 2011. After that Trump said he was fine with it. Clinton should apologize, and at the least acknowledge the role that she and her campaign played in all that.

That is an outright lie. And, it's one that is incredibly easy to refute.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-birther-timeline-20160916-snap-htmlstory.html

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/donald-trump-barack-obama-birther-timeline-conspiracy/
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Like Sidney Blumenthal, you attribute everything negative thing said about Clinton, as a vast right-wing conspiracy.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/repor...irther-rumors-in-2008-updated/article/2004385

What mystifies me, is why it took Trump so long to get this story out. Trump resolved the bitherism question back in 2011. But it is Clinton who has brought it up again this year. Part of her dirty campaign tactics.
It was interesting enough for Obama to release his long form birth certificate in 2011. After that Trump said he was fine with it. Clinton should apologize, and at the least acknowledge the role that she and her campaign played in all that.

Watch the video & try again-

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/colbert-trump-birther-liar

After that, be good to yourself & take a long hard look at your own headset, figure out why you're a propaganda pushover.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,253
55,805
136
Like Sidney Blumenthal, you attribute everything negative thing said about Clinton, as a vast right-wing conspiracy.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/repor...irther-rumors-in-2008-updated/article/2004385

What mystifies me, is why it took Trump so long to get this story out. Trump resolved the bitherism question back in 2011. But it is Clinton who has brought it up again this year. Part of her dirty campaign tactics.

This is what happens to your brain when you consume too much partisan media. To educate yourself just google 'Clinton birther fact check' instead of reading only ultra right wing media.

It is frankly amazing that conservatives have gone from being believing birthers to convincing themselves their belief is all Clinton's fault. This is some 1984 levels of historical revisionism.

You have to wonder if this guy actually believes this shit and if so what happened that made him lose touch with reality so badly.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
t is frankly amazing that conservatives have gone from being believing birthers to convincing themselves their belief is all Clinton's fault. This is some 1984 levels of historical revisionism.

Donald really has 'em dialed in, huh?

His bullshit artistry is truly mind boggling. Problem is that too many people don't realize that's what he's doing to them.
 

Roflmouth

Golden Member
Oct 5, 2015
1,059
61
46
Do you really believe what you just wrote? If so you are so so far in the right wing news bubble that you've lost all contact with reality. This ridiculous attempt to pin Trump's birtherism on Clinton has to be one of the saddest displays of naked partisanship overwhelming rational thought that I have ever seen. I mean who do you think you're fooling other than yourselves? This was only a couple years ago, isn't it a little early to start trying to rewrite history?

Embarrassing.

So Sidney Blumenthal didn't work for Clinton in 2008? LOL
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
It's your word. You explain it to me.

Not my words, his.

"His grandmother in Kenya said, 'Oh, no, he was born in Kenya and I was there and I witnessed the birth.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting"

Amazing how you so quickly do the same shit you dislike on the other side eh.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Just because an adjective is followed by a noun does not mean the definition of the adjective changes. But, lets look at some definitions if you would like..

"Systemic Racism: In many ways “systemic racism” and “structural racism” are synonymous. If there is a difference between the terms, it can be said to exist in the fact that a structural racism analysis pays more attention to the historical, cultural and social psychological aspects of our currently racialized society." https://assets.aspeninstitute.org/c...t/docs/rcc/RCC-Structural-Racism-Glossary.pdf

"Structural Racism: A system in which public policies, institutional practices, cultural representations, and other norms work in various, often reinforcing ways to perpetuate racial group inequity. It identifies dimensions of our history and culture that have allowed privileges associated with “whiteness” and disadvantages associated with “color” to endure and adapt over time. Structural racism is not something that a few people or institutions choose to practice. Instead it has been a feature of the social, economic and political systems in which we all exist"

Okay, so that backs up my usage.

"Institutional racism or systemic racism describes forms of racism which are structured into political and social institutions. It occurs when organisations, institutions or governments discriminate, either deliberately or indirectly, against certain groups of people to limit their rights." http://www.racismnoway.com.au/teaching-resources/factsheets/32.html

Yep, fits what I have been saying again. For the term Systemic racism, there needs to be a structural factor and implementation. Had you looked at this at all, you would have seen this. Instead, you try and discredit me as x or y.



If you mean to say that we can use empirical data to back up correlation then sure. Empirical data can do that, but it does not give an inherent conclusion. My graph used empirical data gathered by "empirical methods" to build the table. Empirical data is a much better thing to build ideas and assumptions from, but it does not inherently draw conclusions.


Oh, you are right, I know nothing of science. :)

But, this again is a deflection. A poll can attempt to be scientific and still not be scientific. A paper can attempt to be quality and still fail at its goal. This is why peer review is important. While those peers might have many of the same assumptions and bias, it gives a chance to have a different view at the data. I have no doubt that Trump supporters are filled with racists in their ranks. I would even dare to say that in my opinion there are more racists supporting Trump than Clinton. That does not mean that Trump supporters are picking Trump for racist reasons.

All of this is a distraction from my post that I started talking to you about though. I would bet that this was your intent. Bring up as much crap as you can so as to distract from you original post. A person questioned if we had systemic aka institutional racism like we once had, and your reply to that. There is a reason you simply post links and do little to no work beyond that. Most people will see a link, read the title and move on. You appear to have backed up your position when in reality you have not as exampled by your recent attempt at systemic vs systematic.

Let's provide some perspective on just how clueless you are. "Systemic racism" is a well-established concept which you evidently didn't know anything about, which in itself is fine since ignorance is hardly a crime. But when informed of its meaning, instead of learning something you start weaseling about how your own creation of "systematic" racism was right all along, even though literally nothing you've managed to find even contains the word, except maybe in your mind.

To reiterate, that is exactly why folks who behave like this don't get far in school, but they certainly try to talk like they've ever learned much. To be perfectly clear, knowing at least something about the subject is important to discuss it meaningfully.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,746
17,400
136
Agent is like a left version of Buck. Lots of claims and links but none of which back up his statements. First time I talked to Agent was about the Iraq death numbers where he linked to a discredited number. His argument was that it was discredited by people that he did not feel should be able to discredit. Then he claimed that terrorism is just how poor people fight wars. I never thought of it, but you are right that he is just like Buck. Same style.

I was talking about you:eek:
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Agent is like a left version of Buck. Lots of claims and links but none of which back up his statements. First time I talked to Agent was about the Iraq death numbers where he linked to a discredited number. His argument was that it was discredited by people that he did not feel should be able to discredit. Then he claimed that terrorism is just how poor people fight wars. I never thought of it, but you are right that he is just like Buck. Same style.

LOL, you didn't even know how to compare numbers. That Lancet range significantly overlapped with all similar studies, incl. ones you thought "discredited" the former. That's how I knew you couldn't have learned much in school.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Let's provide some perspective on just how clueless you are. "Systemic racism" is a well-established concept which you evidently didn't know anything about, which in itself is fine since ignorance is hardly a crime. But when informed of its meaning, instead of learning something you start weaseling about how your own creation of "systematic" racism was right all along, even though literally nothing you've managed to find even contains the word, except maybe in your mind.

This is your style. Don't show where I was wrong or made a mistake, simply say I was wrong. You provide a definition that I agree is a definition, but I believe it supports me. I explain why I think this, and explain why I think you are wrong. The definition of the term was not in question, it was your use in context of the persons comment to you. I think you believe systemic means prolific which it does not. You can have widespread racism and it not be systemic.

You said that I gave you nothing that contains the word. but I literally linked sources and then quoted them in my previous posts. If there is any doubt, it can be found in post 894 and 896. Not only do I give multiple definitions, but I also give context as to why I think you were wrong and I was right. I have no doubt that you do not care, but I care about the dishonesty of your accusation.

Again, you are using systemic racism in a way that appears to mean prolific, and that is incorrect. As exampled by my previous posts, you can see why I believe this. You wont address the arguments, you will simply discredit the person.

To reiterate, that is exactly why folks who behave like this don't get far in school, but they certainly try to talk like they've ever learned much. To be perfectly clear, knowing at least something about the subject is important to discuss it meaningfully.

Here is the distraction again. Bring up a way to discredit the person, and not the argument. An argument should be valid or invalid on its own. I will say that I am currently putting myself through college. The reason I am so late is that I came from a very poor family and have had to pay for everything on my own. I am not sure what you mean by "far". If you mean getting a graduate vs a masters then I do not see myself getting either currently. If you mean having high scores, then I do have those. Not sure of the relevancy of any of this though.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Ah, that explains why you doubled down on your buckshatting.

Its amazing. I spent pages and pages debating Buck, backed up everything I have in the very same format. When I debate people who are not on your side, I'm wrong. When I'm on your side I do it right. I did not change my format in any way, but here we are. I am sure this will fall on def ears (funny analogy for the internet) but I wish people would argue ideas and no argue against people. I know this is political season, so its all but impossible to get that right now, but I still hope.

Instead I have Gardner throwing out crap, Agent throwing out crap and nobody cares about anything other than virtue signaling. I wish Hillary could win this already.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,746
17,400
136
Its amazing. I spent pages and pages debating Buck, backed up everything I have in the very same format. When I debate people who are not on your side, I'm wrong. When I'm on your side I do it right. I did not change my format in any way, but here we are. I am sure this will fall on def ears (funny analogy for the internet) but I wish people would argue ideas and no argue against people. I know this is political season, so its all but impossible to get that right now, but I still hope.

Instead I have Gardner throwing out crap, Agent throwing out crap and nobody cares about anything other than virtue signaling. I wish Hillary could win this already.

Your position on the matter is irrelevant. When you are trying to redefine a word to suit your narrative you are buckshatting. When a conversation cannot be had because the definition of words cannot be agreed upon, you are buckshatting. When you derail threads with tedious irrelevant points, you are buckshatting.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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This is what happens to your brain when you consume too much partisan media. To educate yourself just google 'Clinton birther fact check' instead of reading only ultra right wing media.

It is frankly amazing that conservatives have gone from being believing birthers to convincing themselves their belief is all Clinton's fault. This is some 1984 levels of historical revisionism.

You have to wonder if this guy actually believes this shit and if so what happened that made him lose touch with reality so badly.

You have completely rewritten what happened in your memory. No one said Hillary Clinton herself came up with the birther theory. One of her supporters did, the campaign considered then rejected the idea, but it still got out into the wild. This information is in the public record and isn't disputed.

https://twitter.com/MoElleithee/status/776808154621444096?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

birther.png


And unlike McCain there is no contemporaneous record of Hillary Clinton rejecting the birther claim. You leftists are supposed to be great at the whole "nuance" thing, why is it that you're having so much trouble with nuance in this instance?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,253
55,805
136
You have completely rewritten what happened in your memory. No one said Hillary Clinton herself came up with the birther theory. One of her supporters did, the campaign considered then rejected the idea, but it still got out into the wild. This information is in the public record and isn't disputed.

https://twitter.com/MoElleithee/status/776808154621444096?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

And unlike McCain there is no contemporaneous record of Hillary Clinton rejecting the birther claim. You leftists are supposed to be great at the whole "nuance" thing, why is it that you're having so much trouble with nuance in this instance?

No one said Hillary Clinton came up with the birther theory? lolwut.

Trump_Clinton_birther.jpg


This information is in the public record and is not disputed. Conservatives have said exactly that.

You've totally rewritten what happened in your memory. Conservatives have been continually claiming her campaign was the source of the birther conspiracy theory, which has been debunked over and over and over again. Whether there is any record of her rejecting it at that time or not (and I'm not going to waste my time looking) that is entirely irrelevant as to whether she started it or not, which all facts and logic state neither she nor her campaign did.