Hilary Clinton : Flip Floping her way to the nomination

[RichardE]

A History of flip flops

Nukes

On nukes

Torture

On Torture

Ethanol

Ethanol

Driver licences for illegals

Drivers licence for illegals

Iraq War

Iraq War

On Debates

On Debates

NAFTA

NAFTA

Meeting with dictators

Meeting with dictators

Michigan and Florida

On weather Florida and Michigan should count (First she says there elections will mean nothing, now wants them counted)


These are just a sample of the obvious flip flops of HRC so far in the primaries. It adds to the idea that she is a power hungry individual willing to anything to win an election, changing her opinion to suit the polls and not her real position. (Her flip flop on illegal aliens obtaining drivers licences happened the day after a poll showed the majority of Americans are against it). All her "experience"in Washington seems to be how to play the same old game of lying to the people of the country to get her self into power, giving you what you want to hear even when she held stances against that same thing, or even attacked other people (Obama meeting with dictators) when she herself held the same stance, and went back to that stance months after. She flips flops on major issues like policy towards dictatorships, NAFTA, torture, and small issues like Ethanol. Can we truly trust her to keep her promises shes been making about changing Washington, and undoing the damage of the republican party when she is just reiterating what she reads in the polls. Let us not forget how quickly she changed her message from experience to "hope and change" after Obama won Iowa

 

[Pabster]

It'd be an interesting comparison between her and McCain. Who has flipped and flopped more? :laugh:

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Pabster
It'd be an interesting comparison between her and McCain. Who has flipped and flopped more? :laugh:

flip-flop really needs to be a banned word on these forums -- and perhaps human existence.

there's got to be a line we can draw between slightly altering nuanced positions based on changing situations and political realities vs doing complete Romneys to pander to every special interest group that comes along.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Pabster
It'd be an interesting comparison between her and McCain. Who has flipped and flopped more? :laugh:

flip-flop really needs to be a banned word on these forums -- and perhaps human existence.

there's got to be a line we can draw between slightly altering nuanced positions based on changing situations and political realities vs doing complete Romneys to pander to every special interest group that comes along.

Even taking out perhaps/maybe slight changes in personal stance due to new information (Hilary's Iraq defense and Ethanol defense), Hilary still shows a documented pattern of changing her position in relation to what the poles say. Though, one can say that the Iraq change was due to public pressure and changes in the political landscape in relation to the "Bush is the devil" talk. As well the ethanol idea change was made after meeting with the providers which also shows a pandering to that special interest group.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Pabster
It'd be an interesting comparison between her and McCain. Who has flipped and flopped more? :laugh:

flip-flop really needs to be a banned word on these forums -- and perhaps human existence.

there's got to be a line we can draw between slightly altering nuanced positions based on changing situations and political realities vs doing complete Romneys to pander to every special interest group that comes along.

Even taking out perhaps/maybe slight changes in personal stance due to new information (Hilary's Iraq defense and Ethanol defense), Hilary still shows a documented pattern of changing her position in relation to what the poles say. Though, one can say that the Iraq change was due to public pressure and changes in the political landscape in relation to the "Bush is the devil" talk. As well the ethanol idea change was made after meeting with the providers which also shows a pandering to that special interest group.

Hillary's already lost. I was mostly thinking about John McCain when I said that

I think calling his position change on immigration a "flip flop" is a real distortion.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Pabster
It'd be an interesting comparison between her and McCain. Who has flipped and flopped more? :laugh:

flip-flop really needs to be a banned word on these forums -- and perhaps human existence.

there's got to be a line we can draw between slightly altering nuanced positions based on changing situations and political realities vs doing complete Romneys to pander to every special interest group that comes along.

Even taking out perhaps/maybe slight changes in personal stance due to new information (Hilary's Iraq defense and Ethanol defense), Hilary still shows a documented pattern of changing her position in relation to what the poles say. Though, one can say that the Iraq change was due to public pressure and changes in the political landscape in relation to the "Bush is the devil" talk. As well the ethanol idea change was made after meeting with the providers which also shows a pandering to that special interest group.

Hillary's already lost. I was mostly thinking about John McCain when I said that

I think calling his position change on immigration a "flip flop" is a real distortion.

Ah well than I have yet to read much into McCain so don't know anything about that

 

[ProfJohn]

There is a reason that Senators don?t get elected President, and RichardE just listed a bunch of them.

As a legislator you really have no choice but to flip-flop on many issues. It is called compromise and that is how our system works.

But as a governor, as the last 5 non-VP winners have been, you can appear to be a leader.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Hillary's already lost.

:thumbsup:

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
There is a reason that Senators don?t get elected President, and RichardE just listed a bunch of them.

As a legislator you really have no choice but to flip-flop on many issues. It is called compromise and that is how our system works.

But as a governor, as the last 5 non-VP winners have been, you can appear to be a leader.

umm... unless Bloomberg decides to buy this election, a sitting Senator (unless McCain pulls a Bob Dole) will become the next President of the United States.

 

[spittledip]

How does one tell the difference between changing one's mind about a position and flip-flopping?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: spittledip
How does one tell the difference between changing one's mind about a position and flip-flopping?

when a candidate you support changes positions, s/he changed his/her mind.
when a candidate you don't support changes positions, s/he flip-flopped.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: spittledip
How does one tell the difference between changing one's mind about a position and flip-flopping?

when a candidate you support changes positions, s/he changed his/her mind.
when a candidate you don't support changes positions, s/he flip-flopped.

Ah, of course. silly me

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: spittledip
How does one tell the difference between changing one's mind about a position and flip-flopping?

when a candidate you support changes positions, s/he changed his/her mind.
when a candidate you don't support changes positions, s/he flip-flopped.

Ah, of course. silly me

When a candidate changes her mind after polling numbers come out showing her position is unpopular, they are flip flopping.

 

[M0RPH]

At least she voted instead of marking "present" on her ballot hundreds of times.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
At least she voted instead of marking "present" on her ballot hundreds of times.

Those were note votes but changes in her position on some key issues due to pole results. Nice try at a deflection though

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
At least she voted instead of marking "present" on her ballot hundreds of times.

Which is totally irrelevant and off-topic to the discussion at hand. :|

 

[Siddhartha]

So you guys are saying that changing your opinion and position on an issue is bad?

As I learned more, talked to people, and gained new experiences that allowed me see things from other perspectives, I have changed my positions on a number of issues. This is what adults do, live and learn.

I want this trait in the person who will be leading this country for the next four to eight years.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
So you guys are saying that changing your opinion and position on an issue is bad?

You just don't change your opinion or position on major issues with the flip of a switch. Or a poll.

I can believe the guy who used to be pro-choice changing his mind after his son/daughter is born.

But when we're talking illegal immigration...or torture...come on.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Pabster
It'd be an interesting comparison between her and McCain. Who has flipped and flopped more? :laugh:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe interesting, but a very close race between McCain and Hillary if we examine the record. Not as one sided as Pabster wants to imply. But a very instructive comparison in the art of politics, its one thing to have a consistent
position on an issue, its quite another to cat herd others along to your point of view thus making it a consensus
policy. And there McCain is somewhat of an abject failure, more popular with most of the American public than he is
with his fellow GOP congressional peer group and major parts of the GOP base.

And also instructive on the dictator like tactics of GWB&co, maybe a Plato's republic ideal as a benign despot.
But GWB&co. is the worst possible scenario, he is not benign, he always makes the wrong decision, and thus is the worst possible way to govern. The next President must govern wiser and seek unity while we heal the national wounds
inflicted by GWB.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: spittledip
How does one tell the difference between changing one's mind about a position and flip-flopping?

when a candidate you support changes positions, s/he changed his/her mind.
when a candidate you don't support changes positions, s/he flip-flopped.

I agree to a point; however,, lets give Hillary the benfit of the doubt. With SO many issues she has changed her mind about, it certainly shows she is way to impressionable, uninformed, and immature to be POTUS. She "changes her mind" more times than an angst ridden teen changes their mind about friends and life.