High PPI display

[wallabe]

I was playing around with the new 5K iMac and I played starcraft 2 on it. The graphic sharpness is night and day between a 5K and a 1080p monitor. There's no jagged lines at all. All the polygon edges are smooth, without turning on AA. This isn't something I can exactly describe it over the internet. You have to see it in person. Watching a youtube video trying to explain the quality of a 4K on your 1080p (or 1440p) monitor isn't going to show it.

Is there a display like that that is at a reasonable price? Dell has a 5K 27 inch, but they want $2000 for that. Their 4K 24 inch is around $600 but only has about 186 PPI (Pixel Per Inch); it's good, but pixels can still be distinguished. Their 5K 27 inch one has 218 PPI, the same as the iMac.

The cheapest iMac has a built-in computer that starts at about $1800, $1700 with student discount. Dell won't discount it lower than their current pricing, even though it's just a monitor, and no computer built-in.

Any idea of another monitor that is within that 218 PPI area with a reasonable price (sub $1000)? Basically anything over 200 PPI, since pixels can still be seen on most 4K monitors. I don't care if it's 5K or 4K, what's more important is pixel density. Basically, I want it to be "retina", where at a standard viewing distance, pixels cannot be distinguished. And of course it needs to run at 60Hz (not 30!) and works with a 980 GTX.

Unless I'm completely wrong about being able to distinguish pixels on 4K.

 

[postmortemIA]

then buy that mac. Windows sucks in DPI scaling, some apps work fine, others don't. It is per app basis, while Apple made it in a such way that works for all.
I have surface tablet that puts 2K screen on 10" display, so very high PPI. Because of that, I have to change DPI scaling to 150% to be able to use it... and while most apps work ok, some are just terrible

 

[wallabe]

then buy that mac. Windows sucks in DPI scaling, some apps work fine, others don't. It is per app basis, while Apple made it in a such way that works for all.
I have surface tablet that puts 2K screen on 10" display, so very high PPI. Because of that, I have to change DPI scaling to 150% to be able to use it... and while most apps work ok, some are just terrible

I see. So apps aren't ready to scale to compensate for higher resolution monitors. Thanks. I still am going to try a 4K anyway and see how it is. The Dell P2415Q. It's 186 PPI, not as high as 218 PPI in the iMac, but I hope it's sharp to where it's indistinguishable.

 

[wallabe]

I just got my screen today and it looks great... at 100% (normal) scaling. Text is tiny but I can still read it just fine. Scaling is... cartoonish. The font size is "normal", but it seems to look silly, like a comic font when I scale it to 150%.

I wish Microsoft update Windows 7 to scale everything properly. Mac does it so even if it's a Retina, everything looks normal, just all text is sharper, but without anything looking too big or oversized compared to the windows that it's in.

 

[postmortemIA]

congrats, and good luck. I use Firefox's text only zoom - that way pictures are not blurred. As for Microsoft fixing it in Windows 7, you are out of luck. Better try that free Windows 10 upgrade and see how it looks on Windows 10.

 

[wallabe]

I found that on Windows 7, the best DPI scaling is the one that matches your display's DPI. Since mine is 186 PPI, I set the scaling percentage so that it shows the same DPI, 194% in this case. It's now much clearer, and the images are sharp as I expected but at the same scale as when I used my previous 1080p monitor.

Some apps still suck at scaling.

As for Windows 10, I still get the "We're validating Windows 10 for your PC". It's been like that for as long as I was eligible for the free upgrade.

 

[Pinecallado]

I found that on Windows 7, the best DPI scaling is the one that matches your display's DPI. Since mine is 186 PPI, I set the scaling percentage so that it shows the same DPI, 194% in this case. It's now much clearer, and the images are sharp as I expected but at the same scale as when I used my previous 1080p monitor.

Some apps still suck at scaling.

As for Windows 10, I still get the "We're validating Windows 10 for your PC". It's been like that for as long as I was eligible for the free upgrade.

You should set it to 200%.

 

[wallabe]

You should set it to 200%.

Probably. I actually returned it and I'm going to get the 27 inch version. Maybe the 200% will help with that. I know it's lower PPI, but so far, the 186 PPI looks good. I just think it's a bit small for everything. If it works well, I'll get a second one of the same model.

isthisretina.com shows that the 24 inch 4K monitor is "retina" at 19 inch, while the 27 inch is retina at 21 inch. I measured the distance from my nose to my monitor at 22 inch as my typical viewing distance.

Retina means your eyes cannot tell the individual pixels, so text looks smooth and sharp.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Also though, the 5k Dell monitor is probably two smaller panels stuck together. Early 4k did this, and 5k is doing it now. That means it's a bad idea for gaming.

 

[wallabe]

Also though, the 5k Dell monitor is probably two smaller panels stuck together. Early 4k did this, and 5k is doing it now. That means it's a bad idea for gaming.

It still is 2 panels. It requires 2 displayports.

 

[Pinecallado]

Probably. I actually returned it and I'm going to get the 27 inch version. Maybe the 200% will help with that. I know it's lower PPI, but so far, the 186 PPI looks good. I just think it's a bit small for everything. If it works well, I'll get a second one of the same model.

isthisretina.com shows that the 24 inch 4K monitor is "retina" at 19 inch, while the 27 inch is retina at 21 inch. I measured the distance from my nose to my monitor at 22 inch as my typical viewing distance.

Retina means your eyes cannot tell the individual pixels, so text looks smooth and sharp.

I think it will still look pretty good at 27 inch. I'm using a 1440p 27 inch monitor and I think things look pretty sharp.

Oh and the reason I recommended 200% because hidpi scaling is the best when it's done by whole integers like 2(200%). If you do it by fractions like for example 175% things could look a little blurry because it's showing like 3/4 of a pixel rendered. For a 4k monitor I don't think 200% isn't really a big deal because you have like 1920x1080 of workspace.

And here's a recommendation for a decent 4k 27 inch monitor. It has freesync for gaming.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-27MU67-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B012BPM87E/

 

[wallabe]

I think it will still look pretty good at 27 inch. I'm using a 1440p 27 inch monitor and I think things look pretty sharp.

Oh and the reason I recommended 200% because hidpi scaling is the best when it's done by whole integers like 2(200%). If you do it by fractions like for example 175% things could look a little blurry because it's showing like 3/4 of a pixel rendered. For a 4k monitor I don't think 200% isn't really a big deal because you have like 1920x1080 of workspace.

And here's a recommendation for a decent 4k 27 inch monitor. It has freesync for gaming.

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-27MU67-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B012BPM87E/

Thanks. I was scaling based on PPI, but I'll try 200% when I get it.

I haven't thought about LG. I was looking at ASUS vs Dell. Dell was the cheaper of the two and it has IPS.

 

[TridenT]

There's a 24" 4K Dell out. It's really cheap too. I think it's like $400? I feel like I've seen it for really cheap ($200-300).

That said, I'm not really interested in 4K monitors. Even with a 980 Ti, I'm not going to be able to push 60+fps on it reliably.

 

[wallabe]

There's a 24" 4K Dell out. It's really cheap too. I think it's like $400? I feel like I've seen it for really cheap ($200-300).

That said, I'm not really interested in 4K monitors. Even with a 980 Ti, I'm not going to be able to push 60+fps on it reliably.

Yeah that's the one I got first but it's too small. My current 1080p monitor is 24 inch, but for 4K, you would need a bigger size, even with scaling. So I went with 27 inch. It's $411 for the 24 inch, and $505 for 27 inch on Amazon. I'll test the 27 inch when I get it. If it works well, I'll get another one.

As for gaming, it's very smooth. I have a 980 GTX (not Ti) and 4K works smoothly on the 4K I tested. I'm replacing it for the bigger 27 inch. It can handle battlefield hardline on ultra without hiccup. The frame rates are smooth, even at 60Hz over Displayport.

 

[wallabe]

Thanks. I was scaling based on PPI, but I'll try 200% when I get it.

I haven't thought about LG. I was looking at ASUS vs Dell. Dell was the cheaper of the two and it has IPS.

Well I just got the 27 inch and it's at 200% scaling. The menu text are kind of cartoonishly large, as well as the window control buttons on the top right. Otherwise, text are still sharp. I like the 27 inch better. It feels roomier, even though it's the same resolution. But the rest of the desktop and system text size seems to be just right for this monitor. iTunes is really blurry, I don't think it was meant for anything other than 100% scaling.

 

[Mondozei]

then buy that mac. Windows sucks in DPI scaling, some apps work fine, others don't. It is per app basis, while Apple made it in a such way that works for all.

Windows scaling doesn't suck. The problem are the apps. In mac, there are simply far, far fewer programs to keep track of, so it's a lot easier.

In Windows 8.1, the scaling works just fine for the vast majority of usecases on my 2nd high DPI monitor.

 

[wallabe]

I just got my 25 feet Displayport to Displayport cable and it works perfectly fine. 4K resolution at 60Hz, no flickering of any kind.

 

[Pinecallado]

Well I just got the 27 inch and it's at 200% scaling. The menu text are kind of cartoonishly large, as well as the window control buttons on the top right. Otherwise, text are still sharp. I like the 27 inch better. It feels roomier, even though it's the same resolution. But the rest of the desktop and system text size seems to be just right for this monitor. iTunes is really blurry, I don't think it was meant for anything other than 100% scaling.

It's sad how it seems itunes doesn't have hidpi support when the osx version does.