Marat, the GR and FX laptops are from completely different lines and are not comparable. There are many more differences than the size of the hard drive. The GR line is a corporate based model and is thinner (1.4" vs 2") and lighter (5.6lbs vs 6.8) which will always cost you. It has a larger hard drive (which is removable), a 16MB Radeon video card vs 8MB M1. The GR line has a modular media bay unlike the fixed drive in the FX line. The GR line also has a memory stick slot which the FX series doesn't. The 256MB in the GR line is one DIMM so you have one slot open an you need only add a 256 to max the RAM, while the FX comes with 2x128 which means you have to discard both sticks and buy 2x256 if you want the max. There are probably other differences that I missed, but your comment that these laptops are comparable is completely unfounded.
apoppin
Lifer
At this moment, the Intel notebooks offer excellent bang for the buck (the best I could find).
I just got a new 866Mhz PIII-M (.13 micron/speedstep battery saving technology) with the Radeon 16MB DDR mobility card and 320MB PC-133 RAM from Dell for only $1200 (including DVD-ROM and 14.1 TFT).
I was totally surprised at the performance . . . I did not expect much but installed Max Payne just to see. It runs AWESOME with all details set to "mid" - 32 bit color at 1024x768.
This one doesn't run hot . . . you can actually use it as a laptop . . . notebook performance has come a long way. I won't even miss my desktop while on my 10 week working vacation in Hawaii beginning next month.
I just got a new 866Mhz PIII-M (.13 micron/speedstep battery saving technology) with the Radeon 16MB DDR mobility card and 320MB PC-133 RAM from Dell for only $1200 (including DVD-ROM and 14.1 TFT).
I was totally surprised at the performance . . . I did not expect much but installed Max Payne just to see. It runs AWESOME with all details set to "mid" - 32 bit color at 1024x768.
This one doesn't run hot . . . you can actually use it as a laptop . . . notebook performance has come a long way. I won't even miss my desktop while on my 10 week working vacation in Hawaii beginning next month.
that 4100 would be the ultimate laptop except for the lack of firewire and the somewhat questionable build quality of the dell inspiron line
i like the sony gr series w/ 16 meg ddr radeons; but tooo expensive
i like the sony gr series w/ 16 meg ddr radeons; but tooo expensive
<< Marat, the GR and FX laptops are from completely different lines and are not comparable. There are many more differences than the size of the hard drive. The GR line is a corporate based model and is thinner (1.4" vs 2") and lighter (5.6lbs vs 6.8) which will always cost you. It has a larger hard drive (which is removable), a 16MB Radeon video card vs 8MB M1. The GR line has a modular media bay unlike the fixed drive in the FX line. The GR line also has a memory stick slot which the FX series doesn't. The 256MB in the GR line is one DIMM so you have one slot open an you need only add a 256 to max the RAM, while the FX comes with 2x128 which means you have to discard both sticks and buy 2x256 if you want the max. There are probably other differences that I missed, but your comment that these laptops are comparable is completely unfounded. >>
Sorry - I was wrong in comparing FX & GR series. But, there are no P III-M in Sony FX series. And still, SONY FX series (~same specs, 1:1 CPU clock and it is NOT PIII-M) are more expensive. GR series - way more expensive. Athlon 4 Mobile gives you performance for less. Unfortunately, there aren't many models yet ...
The point is:
1. Pentium III mobile is more expensive than Athlon 4 mobile
2. Pentium III Tualatin mobile is WAY more expensive than Athlon 4 mobile
apoppin
Lifer
<< that 4100 would be the ultimate laptop except for the lack of firewire and the somewhat questionable build quality of the dell inspiron line >>
I have heard bad/questionable things about every maker. Mine seems solid enough. Just gotta depend on the warranty.
Can't the firewire be added via a notebook PCI card? (I don't need it since I am doing my digital editing on my desktop . . . of course, I am using an external USB CD-RW)
<< The point is:
1. Pentium III mobile is more expensive than Athlon 4 mobile
2. Pentium III Tualatin mobile is WAY more expensive than Athlon 4 mobile >>
My point was:
not necessarily so . . . my Inspiron was pretty inexpensive for my P3 mobile. In fact, I should have upgraded to the 1Ghz P3 for only $50 more.
<< OK, just to toss around options and keep an open mind.... >>
Anyway, just tossing my opinion in. Keeping that open mind just might include considering Intel. :Q
If you are looking for a NV17M laptop, then keep an eye on Toshiba. They are supposed to be the first ones to release a laptop with that chipset (I believe I read that from the Comdex reports).
apoppin
Lifer
I don't know about you guys . . . but you only get a 14 or 15 inch screen with the notebooks.
The ONLY reason I would get a faster graphics card (NV17M) would be to output to an external CRT. It seems way overkill for the current generation of games on such a tiny screen.
The ONLY reason I would get a faster graphics card (NV17M) would be to output to an external CRT. It seems way overkill for the current generation of games on such a tiny screen.
"The ONLY reason I would get a faster graphics card (NV17M) would be to output to an external CRT. It seems way overkill for the current generation of games on such a tiny screen."
Despite being only 15" which is equal to a 16-17" CRT some of them run 1600x1200 natively. With LCD you always want to run the native resolution because all others will look distorted, or just plain poor. I would not want to game at 1600x1200 on a mobile Radeon or Geforce2 Go.
Despite being only 15" which is equal to a 16-17" CRT some of them run 1600x1200 natively. With LCD you always want to run the native resolution because all others will look distorted, or just plain poor. I would not want to game at 1600x1200 on a mobile Radeon or Geforce2 Go.
apoppin
Lifer
<< Despite being only 15" which is equal to a 16-17" CRT some of them run 1600x1200 natively. With LCD you always want to run the native resolution because all others will look distorted, or just plain poor. I would not want to game at 1600x1200 on a mobile Radeon or Geforce2 Go. >>
I run a 19" flat CRT for gaming. I'd like a 21".
I guess I just can't agree with you about gaming on a 15" LCD. I would hate to be stuck on mine EXCEPT as a second system. But that is just about personal tastes.
EDIT: I would not want to run a 15" LCD at 1600x1200 (period).
I agree completely that laptops are not ideal for gaming, nor would I ever buy one with that as its main purpose. However, I'd like to see you try to carry a 21" monitor around with you if you travel a lot, or use that monitor on a plane. If you have a laptop for your work or whatever that natively runs 1280 or higher and you also want to be able to comfortably game on it in your spare time on trips, the current video cards aren't going to cut it very well.
"EDIT: I would not want to run a 15" LCD at 1600x1200 (period)."
1600 is a bit small on 15" unless you have good eyes, but one of my friends owns a Dell that runs 1440xsomething and it looks very good to me, no reading problems or eye strain. Even that res running 32bit will seriously tax current mobile video cards.
"EDIT: I would not want to run a 15" LCD at 1600x1200 (period)."
1600 is a bit small on 15" unless you have good eyes, but one of my friends owns a Dell that runs 1440xsomething and it looks very good to me, no reading problems or eye strain. Even that res running 32bit will seriously tax current mobile video cards.
apoppin
Lifer
<< However, I'd like to see you try to carry a 21" monitor around with you if you travel a lot, or use that monitor on a plane. If you have a laptop for your work or whatever that natively runs 1280 or higher and you also want to be able to comfortably game on it in your spare time on trips, the current video cards aren't going to cut it very well. >>
That IS why I just bought my Dell notebook. I AM a gamer. And I cant take my desktop to Hawaii even though I will be there 10 weeks.
I am just pointing out that my notebook's current (P3- 866M) ATI Mobility Radeon (16MB DDR) IS sufficient for current games. I run my 14.1 TFT @ 32 bit color (1024x768) and Max Payne runs VERY well (NO slow downs) with all the details set to "mid".
I guess, If I had wanted "better", the current 1.2Ghz P3 and GeForce2GO (32MB DDR) would run Max Payne at a higher resolution and details at "high".
The NV17M is for FUTURE games. It is OVERKILL for today's current games.
"I run my 14.1 TFT @ 32 bit color (1024x768) and Max Payne runs VERY well (NO slow downs) with all the details set to "mid".
Apparently you are having difficultly reading on your 19" CRT, so let me say it again:
If you (not You you, just anyone) have a laptop for your work or whatever that natively runs 1280 or higher and you also want to be able to comfortably game on it in your spare time on trips, the current video cards aren't going to cut it very well.
Your laptop running at 1024 does not fall into this category.
Here is a look at a mobile Radeon at Tom's:
Mobile chipsets
37fps on Quake3 at 1024 is not impressive at all, especially considering how much optimization this game probably gets. 1280, 1440, or 1600? You can completely forget it with today's games let alone tomorrows.
Apparently you are having difficultly reading on your 19" CRT, so let me say it again:
If you (not You you, just anyone) have a laptop for your work or whatever that natively runs 1280 or higher and you also want to be able to comfortably game on it in your spare time on trips, the current video cards aren't going to cut it very well.
Your laptop running at 1024 does not fall into this category.
Here is a look at a mobile Radeon at Tom's:
Mobile chipsets
37fps on Quake3 at 1024 is not impressive at all, especially considering how much optimization this game probably gets. 1280, 1440, or 1600? You can completely forget it with today's games let alone tomorrows.
apoppin
Lifer
<< Apparently you are having difficultly reading on your 19" CRT, so let me say it again: >>
You can repeat till you turn blue. You are obviously missing MY point.
And again (this is my own opinion) - 15 inch screens with 1600x1200 are also overkill. The superfine details that you enable to slow Quake III down are just not really noticeable unless you have super-eyesight.
And you have linked to Tom's review with a SIMULATION and a P3 750E. The Geforce2GO 32MB kicks ATI's butt . . . with a P3 1.2Ghz it should be fine at 1280x1024.
You can wait and wait and wait for the next technology. My point - if you choose your laptop carefully and make it a well-balanced system - you can get excellent gaming results NOW.
Ahh but the chipset I was actually talking about was not the Mobility RADEON but the Mobility RADEON 7500, which looks to be very nice (but not as nice as the NV17M), and I recall reading somewhere that it had 64MB of 128-bit video memory? Wow that would be impressive for a mobile solution... Anyone know when it's coming?
On a side note, I knew nothing of these newer Intel P3 processors, the bus is still down at 133MHz but that 512K cache looks very nice. Anyone have benchmarks of almost-similar notebooks one using AMD and the other using the newer Intel models?
On a side note, I knew nothing of these newer Intel P3 processors, the bus is still down at 133MHz but that 512K cache looks very nice. Anyone have benchmarks of almost-similar notebooks one using AMD and the other using the newer Intel models?
OK I found proof that Mobility Radeon 7500 can have 64MB... this is rather interesting actually, found at http://www.rage3d.com
<< The Mobility Radeon 7500 can support 16MB or 32MB of integrated ram built into the chip (note: this isn't eDRAM, but memory chips built into the same package as the graphics core), as well as discrete memory (off chip) up to 64MB. There are 3 different primary memory configurations the Mobility Radeon 7500 can work in. Here's how it breaks down:
Using only discrete memory you can have 16MB to 64MB ram using an external 64bit or 128bit memory interface. This is known as the "P" variant.
The CSP-16 variant has 16MB internal memory, and an optional 16MB external memory for a total of up to 32MB. Just using the 16MB internal gives you a 64bit memory interface, while having 16MB internal + 16MB external runs at 128bit.
The CSP-32 variant has 32MB internal memory, running at 64bit. Adding the additional 32MB external memory (for a total of 64MB) runs at 128bit.
>>
<< The Mobility Radeon 7500 can support 16MB or 32MB of integrated ram built into the chip (note: this isn't eDRAM, but memory chips built into the same package as the graphics core), as well as discrete memory (off chip) up to 64MB. There are 3 different primary memory configurations the Mobility Radeon 7500 can work in. Here's how it breaks down:
Using only discrete memory you can have 16MB to 64MB ram using an external 64bit or 128bit memory interface. This is known as the "P" variant.
The CSP-16 variant has 16MB internal memory, and an optional 16MB external memory for a total of up to 32MB. Just using the 16MB internal gives you a 64bit memory interface, while having 16MB internal + 16MB external runs at 128bit.
The CSP-32 variant has 32MB internal memory, running at 64bit. Adding the additional 32MB external memory (for a total of 64MB) runs at 128bit.
>>
apoppin
Lifer
This is NO simulation. It's the Toshiba with a Geforce2GO. Looks like it can play Quake now.
Maybe you wanna argue its ONLY 1024x768. OK, its ONLY a P3 800E (100FSB) with ONLY a 16MB GeForce. AND 55-104 FPS in Quake.
Crank up the Resolution and stick in a 1.2 Ghz Tualatin (133FSB and 512 L2 cache) with a 32 MB GeForce. Quake to go!
Why wait?
EDIT:
<< The GeForce2Go performs at the level of a MX200 card. 64bit SDRAM does not use the full potential of the GeForce2Go chip, but every mobile design is a compromise between space, power, complexity and thermal. >>
Maybe you wanna argue its ONLY 1024x768. OK, its ONLY a P3 800E (100FSB) with ONLY a 16MB GeForce. AND 55-104 FPS in Quake.
Crank up the Resolution and stick in a 1.2 Ghz Tualatin (133FSB and 512 L2 cache) with a 32 MB GeForce. Quake to go!
Why wait?
EDIT:
<< The GeForce2Go performs at the level of a MX200 card. 64bit SDRAM does not use the full potential of the GeForce2Go chip, but every mobile design is a compromise between space, power, complexity and thermal. >>
I am also going to be getting a laptop very soon but I will definatly wait for the NV17 as well as the .13 AMD because me thinks Intel sucks (my oppinion) but I know that if I wait I will be happier rather than buying now heres what im lookin to get
1Ghz + AMD
256-512MB RAM
NV17 video chipset
30GB HDD
NIC/56K
DVD drive
big screen nice sound etc... basically a desktop replacement
joshg lemme know when you see somthing like this and I will let you know when I do
1Ghz + AMD
256-512MB RAM
NV17 video chipset
30GB HDD
NIC/56K
DVD drive
big screen nice sound etc... basically a desktop replacement
joshg lemme know when you see somthing like this and I will let you know when I do
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