In this job environment? No way. Job 2 could easily take back their offer because they probably had other candidates interviewing who'd take the job in a heartbeat. To the OP, Job 2 is a no-brainer, as others in this thread have said.
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High Pay vs Benefits
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In this job environment? No way. Job 2 could easily take back their offer because they probably had other candidates interviewing who'd take the job in a heartbeat. To the OP, Job 2 is a no-brainer, as others in this thread have said.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
Definitely negotiate with company #2, but in the end, those seem like world-class benefits and be prepared for them not to budge too much. In the end, OP, remember that after being at job #2 for a few years, you'll probably be at the salary company #1 offered you AND still have the total kickass PTO and benefits. Company #1, on the other hand, likely won't add benefits of that caliber. The PTO benefit (or lack thereof in this case) that company #1 offers is, quite honestly, the most pathetic PTO benefit I have ever seen.
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IndyColtsFan
Lifer
Yeah, you have to be careful. I'd probably try a carefully worded counter, but they won't match company #1's salary so I wouldn't insist they match it.
I got this job in 2007. As I mentioned, the other offer was $8K more but the benefits here more than made up for it. I did try to negotiate and they wouldn't budge on the salary. What I did get, however, was a promised raise for some of the difference at the turn of the fiscal year, which was just 4 months after I started. That clinched it for me.
i'd do #1 for a year or two then shop around. seems like you'd learn 10x the amount in #1 than in #2. now if you are a "lifer" or intend to be, #2 seems to be a no-brainer, but if you are the highly motivated, self-starter type, #1 might be worth doing to accrue experience and use as a stepping stone, just dont piss anyone off. 😉
jiggahertz
Golden Member
That mentality makes you a loser. Do you want to be a loser? Candidates who are sought after by companies are in demand no matter what the job market is. If a company takes back a job offer from a candidate who attempts to negotiate with them, there is something seriously off about that employer. Negotiation is a skill which is a strength in most positions. The worst they will do is say their offer is firm. More than likely they'll meet you in the middle somewhere.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
I couldn't disagree more. Job #1 focuses on legacy systems and no matter how much he learns, it probably won't be terribly useful once he leaves there. Job #2, however, offers access to cutting-edge technology and that would translate to more marketable skills should he want to put himself on the market.
Ns1
No Lifer
learning what? antiquated systems that nobody wants to use anymore?
BlahBlahYouToo
Lifer
5 days PTO? that's worse than a sweat shop.
what city/state? $70k isn't exactly great pay for those responsibilities around here.
what city/state? $70k isn't exactly great pay for those responsibilities around here.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
Will you actually put enough into 401k for the match?
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
This. My back of the envelope math puts the difference at less than 1%.
shortylickens
No Lifer
For me?
Pay.
I can't put vacation days in the bank. And given the economy I'd rather have a good fallback or nest egg.
Pay.
I can't put vacation days in the bank. And given the economy I'd rather have a good fallback or nest egg.
sactoking
Diamond Member
This right here says take the other job.
1- You will be working with legacy systems. You will hate life.
2- You hope to convince management to dump money into new technology. You are one of two guys "responsible for everything". Do you have a ton of experience with system migration and ERP installs? Based on the pay you mention I'd say not. That means you are setting yourself up for failure. System migrations and ERP installs ALWAYS go over budget, miss the delivery date, get scope creep, etc. As a proponent and person "responsible" you will be the first one fired.
PingSpike
Lifer
The fact that the first company can not even meet the terribad standard amount of vacation days in America as part of its otherwise horrendous benefits package would be enough to give one pause to begin with. Obviously, if you have no other offers in this job environment you'd take it. But you do. Those are the best time off benefits I've ever heard some one in America having. And the rest of the package is fantastic.
The second job wins on both the benefits and if you consider total compensation it also wins. Having a high salary seems over rated to me. The state government responds to higher salaries by targeting you for higher income and property taxes around here, but they have no such system to tax your benefits. This is a slam dunk IMO.
PS: Those legacy systems aren't getting upgraded. That's my gut just based on your information.
The second job wins on both the benefits and if you consider total compensation it also wins. Having a high salary seems over rated to me. The state government responds to higher salaries by targeting you for higher income and property taxes around here, but they have no such system to tax your benefits. This is a slam dunk IMO.
PS: Those legacy systems aren't getting upgraded. That's my gut just based on your information.
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IndyColtsFan
Lifer
Well, after reading more closely, he wouldn't be a "real" manager. The way I read it, there is a manager (the guy's boss) and him as an assistant manager and those guys do everything at the facility -- help desk, maintenance, servers, etc. It is kind of like when you go to a training class and are surrounded by all these "IT Directors." You then find out that they are the only IT person in a company with 50 people.
Company #1 sucks, do NOT take it. If they can't even give you 2 weeks of PTO to start and have the rest of that horrible benefits package, it isn't worth it.
You can tell a lot about how companies view their employees by their benefits. Great benefits almost always mean they treat their employees well, the converse is almost universally true as well.
Ns1
No Lifer
very true in my experience.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
When you're on a management interview and they ask "How many employees did you supervise?" and your answer is 0, you'll get laughed out of the room if you have the title "manager" listed on your resume. Heck, you might as well call yourself CIO while you're at it.
His benefits put him at or close to that $70K figure in terms of total compensation. As I mentioned earlier, company #2 will likely treat him well and he'll be at that $70K figure in no time, WITH those sweet benefits. What is company #1 going to offer? Throw in an extra day of PTO?
He can do that at company #2 too.
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IndyColtsFan
Lifer
Well said. :thumbsup:
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