High Gas Prices: Blessing in Disguise?

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Everyone complains about gas prices, I admit I am guilty of this at times... I wanted to post this article because for the most part it embodies my gut feelings about our energy craving ways.

In business and in life, finances drive evreything; if something is cheap you don't pay attention and write it off as petty cash. It is not until our bottom lines are effected that we actually start to use our brains for solutions.

For example, gasoline until more recently has been fairly cheap, everyone hopped on board and consumed like it was an endless supply of this black gold. We've known for years this resource is limited, unfortunately this has come to bite us in the ass. Our economy is so dependent on the resource, we are caught in a vicious cycle.

But have no fear, we as a people are innovative and will correct our mistakes as we have countless times in the past. This new age of higher oil prices is a blessing in disguise. You've seen it on wallstreet, i've seen it at work; companies are being creative, innovative, generating flexiblity to survive the next frontier.

Alcoa for example released horrid earnings for their energy intensive operations of aluminum processing. It took a quarter or two, but they are now on track with above expected earnings (but still very much effected by energy prices), and a new drive to compete.

My company more recently has created its first energy plan in hopes to reduce consumption and help our bottom line.

I am excited to see how we as a society adapt to this new challenge, I welcome these higher prices! The road will be challenging and may on the short term seem negative, but i encourage people to look forward and see what is possible with not just moral motivation but fiscal and economic pressure.

High Gas Prices: Blessing in Disguise?
by Jeremy Siegel, Ph.D.

Annoyed by the rising price of gasoline, a good friend of mine recently asked me in disgust, "Why doesn't the U.S. government have an energy policy to bring prices down?"

"We now have the best long-term energy policy you can have: High Prices," I replied.

High prices are the only proven mechanism that forces Americans to seriously undertake energy conservation, exploration, and production. And they're already working their magic. Sales of gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks at General Motors and Ford were off about 30 percent in September compared to a year ago. And total gasoline consumption dropped more than 5 percent below trend following Katrina.

High prices ensure Americans will economize their use of gas and heating oil and simultaneously encourage investors to fund research and exploration of alternative energy sources. In the long run, this dual response of conservation and innovation will overcome the issues of energy scarcity and reverse skyrocketing prices.

Despite the short-term pain we consumers face today, scarce oil resources will not impede future economic growth. Here's why ...

Hubbert's Peak

An early warning about oil scarcity was given nearly a half century ago by Marion King Hubbert, a Shell geologist who predicted in 1956 that U.S. oil production would peak in the early 1970s.

His theory was dubbed "Hubbert's Peak" and was dismissed by many experts inside and outside the oil industry. But Hubbert was right. Oil production in the U.S. has declined nearly 50 percent since 1970, and after Katrina production slipped to a 62-year low.

The question facing us today is when will world oil production experience Hubbert's Peak? The answer depends on whom you ask. On the downward slope of Hubbert's Peak is Matthew Simmons, an investment banker, Texas energy expert, and author of "Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy." Simmons argues passionately that the world's oil will soon be pumped dry. He argues that Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil supplier, faces declining oil output and overstates their reserves.

On the upward slope of Hubbert's Peak is Daniel Yergin, Chairman of Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) and author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning book "The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money and Power." Yergin thinks that supplies are plentiful, alternative energy sources will be found, and we will soon have another glut of oil that will push prices downward.

Who's right? I'm no geologist, but the more I analyze the situation, the more clearly I can see the worldwide Hubbert's Peak. Reaching peak world oil production is not the end of the world. (Quite the contrary. In my next column I'll discuss how technological innovation and new energy sources will make oil a non-issue.) But what we need to offset the higher prices today is greatly increased oil supply, and we need it fast. Unfortunately, oil exploration investments are long-term projects, and there still is a high level of resistance in funding major capital projects.

I recently traveled to Calgary, Canada, supposedly one of the most promising locations for future oil extraction. During my visit I constantly tried to get a reading on the huge Athabasca oil sands in Alberta. Many believe Alberta sits atop the equivalent of 175 billion barrels of oil, second to only Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, this oil remains trapped in a combination of clay and sand that is expensive to extract. Yet at today's oil prices, extraction is not only feasible, but profitable.

By the time I left Calgary I doubted these oil sands would be the full answer to our problems. While some call Calgary a boomtown, many who live there are very cautious. They remember the total collapse that occurred after the last oil boom hit 25 years ago. They don't want to make the same mistakes.

Oil Prices to Remain High

Canadian oil and other oil deposits may be sufficient to put a lid on long-term oil prices, but the emphasis is on "long-term." Optimistic estimates are that by 2030, these Canadian oil sands will produce 6 billion barrels a year, but by that time the U.S. will be consuming nearly four times that amount.

The bottom line: I've found no evidence of an immediate source of additional oil. High prices at the pump will stay that way for some time. Just how long? The oil futures market lets us analyze future price expectations, as crude oil can be bought and sold for delivery many months and even years in advance. In October just one year ago, the market price of crude oil for immediate delivery was $54.00 a barrel. The futures contract for delivery six years later, in December 2010, was under $38. This pattern -- oil for future delivery selling well below the current price -- used to be typical of the oil market.

Today the market looks much different. As I write this column, oil for current delivery selling is just at $64 dollar, about $10 more expensive than a year ago. But oil for delivery in December 2010 is now almost $60 a barrel, more than $20 higher than it was a year ago. Oil traders are now betting that oil will remain in short supply and at these price levels for many, many years.

Investment Implications

What does this mean for the average investor? Energy stocks have been on a tear the last two years, and they certainly could correct downward. The energy sector is now greater than 10 percent of the value of all stocks in the S&P 500 Index, up from just 6 percent a few years ago. But that's still far short of the 30 percent reached during the energy crisis of the 1970s and early 1980s.

Energy won't come close to the 30 percent share again and it shouldn't. Many energy stocks became dramatically overpriced in the 1980s and subsequently collapsed.

Those bearish on energy think that is happening again. This year is on track to be the second straight year that the energy sector has been the best performing sector. One has to go back to 1966 to find another two year top-performing sector (technology) that didn't utterly collapse in the third year.

But I don't believe the whole energy sector will collapse. When the tech sector was the best performer in 1999 and 2000, its valuations became exorbitantly high (two-to-three times greater than market multiples). Energy is not even close to this. Based on current earnings estimates, the price-to-earnings ratio (or "P/E ratio," a critical valuation factor) of the energy sector is now about 11, the lowest of all 10 economy-wide sectors and far below the 17 P/E ratio for the market. And these earnings estimates of oil firms are based on oil falling back to the $50, which is a very conservative price. So it's quite possible for earnings to surprise on the upside.

Outlook for World Growth

The shock from higher oil prices will ultimately benefit the economy. The earlier we confront the reality of a diminishing supply of oil the better off we will be. As a result of the first oil crisis in the 1970s, we developed new technologies that allowed us to reduce the amount of energy we needed to produce one dollar of GDP by 50 percent.

We can and will do that again. Hundreds of billions of dollars are destined to be spent on energy conservation and the exploration and development of new energy sources. High prices will cut the demands for fossil fuels by stimulating energy efficiency, spurring research in alternative energy sources, and revisiting nuclear power options. All this will happen because free markets and capitalism work. People respond to incentives. High energy prices may be painful in the short run, but they will not slow world economic growth.
Source
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Blessing in disguise? Perhaps.

Good luck getting any serious debate and discussion on this topic.

I've posted similiar material in other threads (particularly Dave's infamous gas threads) and it has been ignored.

If you are really interested in a source for oil (and lots of it) read Here (PDF-Adobe Acrobat Required). This is the RAND report that, frankly, hasn't received the attention that it deserves. You might be surprised to learn that right here in the continental USA is a larger supply of oil than the entire country of Saudi Arabia.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
I know I probably won't get a serious debate, but I enjoy throwing theories and ideas out there, if it makes just one people see a different side of the equation; it is all worthwhile. Maybe I can attract people like yourself, who do want to discuss seriously, to the conversation and teach me a thing or two. I sure as hell don't have all the answers! :D
 

sonz70

Banned
Apr 19, 2005
3,693
1
0
I still do not believe in the oil peak hitting anytime soon, but I support the advancement in technology that we will see as those who believe it poor money into science to curb it.
 

sonz70

Banned
Apr 19, 2005
3,693
1
0
Originally posted by: Stunt


I know I probably won't get a serious debate, but I enjoy throwing theories and ideas out there, if it makes just one people see a different side of the equation; it is all worthwhile. Maybe I can attract people like yourself, who do want to discuss seriously, to the conversation and teach me a thing or two. I sure as hell don't have all the answers! :D



One thing you will see is Canada having more barganing power in trade disputes in the future, as our oil exports go up.
 

Passions

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2000
6,855
3
0
cry me a river.......cry me a riveeeerrr.

there's more than enough oil in this world to last 50,000 years.

the earth replenishes itself over and over.

cry me a river.......
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: Passions
cry me a river.......cry me a riveeeerrr.

there's more than enough oil in this world to last 50,000 years.

the earth replenishes itself over and over.

cry me a river.......

Heh. It's time to play that old game... is Passions serious or not?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Pabster
Blessing in disguise? Perhaps.

Good luck getting any serious debate and discussion on this topic.

I've posted similiar material in other threads (particularly Dave's infamous gas threads) and it has been ignored.

If you are really interested in a source for oil (and lots of it) read Here (PDF-Adobe Acrobat Required). This is the RAND report that, frankly, hasn't received the attention that it deserves. You might be surprised to learn that right here in the continental USA is a larger supply of oil than the entire country of Saudi Arabia.

Originally posted by: Stunt
I know I probably won't get a serious debate, but I enjoy throwing theories and ideas out there, if it makes just one people see a different side of the equation; it is all worthwhile. Maybe I can attract people like yourself, who do want to discuss seriously, to the conversation and teach me a thing or two. I sure as hell don't have all the answers! :D

Good luck.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

We are slaves to the Oil Barons by design.

It's been that way since the conversion from steam to Oil and it's not about to change anytime soon.
 

sonz70

Banned
Apr 19, 2005
3,693
1
0
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: Passions
cry me a river.......cry me a riveeeerrr.

there's more than enough oil in this world to last 50,000 years.

the earth replenishes itself over and over.

cry me a river.......

Heh. It's time to play that old game... is Passions serious or not?

He doesn't seem like an idiot, so I would say no.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Good luck.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

We are slaves to the Oil Barons by design.

It's been that way since the conversion from steam to Oil and it's not about to change anytime soon.

And when conversion to atomic was attempted, the fundies stopped it. There was "enough" energy available in oil and coal.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
High oil prices will be a blessing and curse. The last oil crunch we had in the 70s caused us to be more effecient with our use of oil. Our more effecient use of oil helped keep oil cheap and we will are beginning yet another round of getting more use out of the same oil. This will help keep oil cheap and will only cause use more of this resource.


That being said, we are not going to run out of oil anytime soon.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: charrison
High oil prices will be a blessing and curse.

The last oil crunch we had in the 70s caused us to be more effecient with our use of oil.

Our more effecient use of oil helped keep oil cheap and we will are beginning yet another round of getting more use out of the same oil. This will help keep oil cheap and will only cause use more of this resource.

That being said, we are not going to run out of oil anytime soon.

So what is your explanation for the SUV's that get Miles Per Gallon the same as pre-1973 Oil Crunch???
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
I agree that it's a mixed blessing. For me, it couldn't have come at a worse time (since I'm on a fixed income), but I don't have to drive much, so I'll grin and bear it. I am a firm believer that the currently exorbitant oil prices are contrived simply to line the pockets of those who have the oil, as the market for oil allows this. I believe they will continue to maintain the inflated price at such a level that people can still just barely afford it, maximizing their rate of return. They know that there is an extreme abundance of oil still to be had, but they can fool the public into thinking it's scarce, thereby allowing them to get away with their inflated pricing scheme. It's a vicious cycle which is enabled, in the end, by public ignorance (as are most things these days). For example:
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Good luck.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

We are slaves to the Oil Barons by design.

It's been that way since the conversion from steam to Oil and it's not about to change anytime soon.
Steam is a source of power? Amazing. And here I was thinking we were burning fossil fuels to generate the steam! The smoke and mirrors have really been successful after all.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Steam is a source of power? Amazing. And here I was thinking we were burning fossil fuels to generate the steam! The smoke and mirrors have really been successful after all.

Heh ;)

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I agree that it's a mixed blessing. For me, it couldn't have come at a worse time (since I'm on a fixed income), but I don't have to drive much, so I'll grin and bear it. I am a firm believer that the currently exorbitant oil prices are contrived simply to line the pockets of those who have the oil, as the market for oil allows this. I believe they will continue to maintain the inflated price at such a level that people can still just barely afford it, maximizing their rate of return. They know that there is an extreme abundance of oil still to be had, but they can fool the public into thinking it's scarce, thereby allowing them to get away with their inflated pricing scheme. It's a vicious cycle which is enabled, in the end, by public ignorance (as are most things these days). For example:
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Good luck.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

We are slaves to the Oil Barons by design.

It's been that way since the conversion from steam to Oil and it's not about to change anytime soon.
Steam is a source of power? Amazing. And here I was thinking we were burning fossil fuels to generate the steam! The smoke and mirrors have really been successful after all.

How many Oil powered Steam engines have you've seen? :confused:

They were either wood or coal fired, not Oil.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
High oil prices will be a blessing and curse.

The last oil crunch we had in the 70s caused us to be more effecient with our use of oil.

Our more effecient use of oil helped keep oil cheap and we will are beginning yet another round of getting more use out of the same oil. This will help keep oil cheap and will only cause use more of this resource.

That being said, we are not going to run out of oil anytime soon.

So what is your explanation for the SUV's that get Miles Per Gallon the same as pre-1973 Oil Crunch???

Liberals wanting them.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
High oil prices will be a blessing and curse.

The last oil crunch we had in the 70s caused us to be more effecient with our use of oil.

Our more effecient use of oil helped keep oil cheap and we will are beginning yet another round of getting more use out of the same oil. This will help keep oil cheap and will only cause use more of this resource.

That being said, we are not going to run out of oil anytime soon.

So what is your explanation for the SUV's that get Miles Per Gallon the same as pre-1973 Oil Crunch???

Liberals wanting them.

Partially true. Not that many Liberals are rich though. More wannabes than really rich.

This has proven to be true by the huge drop off with the wannbes no longer able to keep up with the Joneses.

Like other members that sound like mud and an old Beer said, "Republicans will be able to afford gas no matter what the price".

It is the Republicans that drive the SUV insanity at the behest of the Oil Barons.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
High oil prices will be a blessing and curse.

The last oil crunch we had in the 70s caused us to be more effecient with our use of oil.

Our more effecient use of oil helped keep oil cheap and we will are beginning yet another round of getting more use out of the same oil. This will help keep oil cheap and will only cause use more of this resource.

That being said, we are not going to run out of oil anytime soon.

So what is your explanation for the SUV's that get Miles Per Gallon the same as pre-1973 Oil Crunch???

Your average vehicle has much better fuel economy than vehicles produced in the 70s. Early cafe standards killed the station wagon and delived the SUV to the market. Trucks and the similar large SUVs get much better gas milage than their 70s counter parts that as well.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I agree that it's a mixed blessing. For me, it couldn't have come at a worse time (since I'm on a fixed income), but I don't have to drive much, so I'll grin and bear it. I am a firm believer that the currently exorbitant oil prices are contrived simply to line the pockets of those who have the oil, as the market for oil allows this. I believe they will continue to maintain the inflated price at such a level that people can still just barely afford it, maximizing their rate of return. They know that there is an extreme abundance of oil still to be had, but they can fool the public into thinking it's scarce, thereby allowing them to get away with their inflated pricing scheme. It's a vicious cycle which is enabled, in the end, by public ignorance (as are most things these days). For example:
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Good luck.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

We are slaves to the Oil Barons by design.

It's been that way since the conversion from steam to Oil and it's not about to change anytime soon.
Steam is a source of power? Amazing. And here I was thinking we were burning fossil fuels to generate the steam! The smoke and mirrors have really been successful after all.

There's a lot of oil in the world, it's just that getting it is much more difficult to find oil deposits that are within are grasp physically and finically.
 

YoshiSato

Banned
Jul 31, 2005
1,012
0
0
What about 1973 and 1979? We learned NOTHING from these shortages.
In 3 - 5 years if not sooner we will have forgoten and get back to our gas wasting SUVs
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: YoshiSato
What about 1973 and 1979? We learned NOTHING from these shortages.
In 3 - 5 years if not sooner we will have forgoten and get back to our gas wasting SUVs

Thank God. I'm eager to see all oil in the world used up. It'll be fun, in a 1800s sort of way.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: YoshiSato
What about 1973 and 1979? We learned NOTHING from these shortages.
In 3 - 5 years if not sooner we will have forgoten and get back to our gas wasting SUVs

Thank God. I'm eager to see all oil in the world used up. It'll be fun, in a 1800s sort of way.



Not much chance of that, there is plenty of it. Between oil deposits, coal, tar sands and shale we are going to be able to make gas for a long time.
 

kogase

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2004
5,213
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: YoshiSato
What about 1973 and 1979? We learned NOTHING from these shortages.
In 3 - 5 years if not sooner we will have forgoten and get back to our gas wasting SUVs

Thank God. I'm eager to see all oil in the world used up. It'll be fun, in a 1800s sort of way.



Not much chance of that, there is plenty of it. Between oil deposits, coal, tar sands and shale we are going to be able to make gas for a long time.

That's why we need to start developing vehicles that use exponentially greater amounts of fossil fuels. I want a tractor trailer in every driveway, I want a giant plastic dinosaur on every lawn, I want an... oil burning lamp in every bedroom. Yes, with your concerted efforts, world, we can achieve this fantastic goal!

Fake Edit: Also, what would happen if the rest of the world (and really, the rest of it) started using fossil fuels to the extent that the US does? That would get things moving along quite nicely, yes?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: YoshiSato
What about 1973 and 1979? We learned NOTHING from these shortages.
In 3 - 5 years if not sooner we will have forgoten and get back to our gas wasting SUVs

Thank God. I'm eager to see all oil in the world used up. It'll be fun, in a 1800s sort of way.



Not much chance of that, there is plenty of it. Between oil deposits, coal, tar sands and shale we are going to be able to make gas for a long time.

That's why we need to start developing vehicles that use exponentially greater amounts of fossil fuels. I want a tractor trailer in every driveway, I want a giant plastic dinosaur on every lawn, I want an... oil burning lamp in every bedroom. Yes, with your concerted efforts, world, we can achieve this fantastic goal!

Fake Edit: Also, what would happen if the rest of the world (and really, the rest of it) started using fossil fuels to the extent that the US does? That would get things moving along quite nicely, yes?

The car culture is rising in both china and india right now, so we will likely have an answer in a decade. But by then I am not going to be surprised if deisel electric plugin hybrids get 100mpg either...

Call me an optimist...
 

YoshiSato

Banned
Jul 31, 2005
1,012
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: YoshiSato
What about 1973 and 1979? We learned NOTHING from these shortages.
In 3 - 5 years if not sooner we will have forgoten and get back to our gas wasting SUVs

Thank God. I'm eager to see all oil in the world used up. It'll be fun, in a 1800s sort of way.



Not much chance of that, there is plenty of it. Between oil deposits, coal, tar sands and shale we are going to be able to make gas for a long time.

We have enough coal in Utah that we can convert into gas using a process developed by the Germans during WW2 to fuel current consumption rates of the USA for a few hunderd years. The only problem is all of the coal is located in a National Park via executive order (Thank you Bill Clinton). It would take a 2/3 act of congress to over turn it. This will never ever happen.

We need to do something quick because with Asia(China) and the Asian sub contenant(India) becomming more "develop" they will consume a lot more oil than the US which will lead to a bigger strain on resources.