High end computer speakers

[seanp789]

Need some audiophile or direct user opinions. I plan to purchase before new years.

The tweeter in these units is exactly the same. The only major difference I can tell is the cabinet and the size of the mids driver.

If you have no idea what I am talking about I'd prefer you didnt reply.

M-1 LINK
- aluminum cabinet (visually more attractive)
- 4" mid driver
-$450 per pair


LM1 LINK
-plastic cabinet
-5" mid driver
-$350 per pair


****UPDATED INFORMATION so you dont have to read every post.*****

Speakers choosen:
B&W DM600 S3 ($350/pr) LINK
Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE ($368/pr) LINK
Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 center
dual Subwoofer Velodyne DLS-3500R($400) LINK

A/V Receiver:
Cambridge Audio Azur 540R ($700) LINK


-----------



The DM600s paired with the sub are very good, a little bright..

The dual Velodynes kick @$$. Takes a great deal of time to fine tune even with an spl meter.

The HTM-200 while not so bad by itself , paired with the 170SEs it stands out way too much. I would have to recommend sticking with a another 170SE for timbre matching.

The CBM-170SE are very nice.

+smooth soundstage
+wide dispersion (pitch doesnt change much at different angles)
+sound is good, neutral. A top contender at this price class.
+simple placement due to dispersion mentioned above.


The Azur 540R sounds great, noticed inprovement over old receiver.

Some updated thoughts on the Cambrdige Audio Azur 540R receiver:

Packaging is minimal but adequate. Thick styrofoam on both sides protects it from shipping damage.

I've read several reviews saying how bad the manual was but I found it answered any questions I had settings it up. The manual explains how to set all the features but offers very little information as to why or when you would want to use any of these settings. I would say some basic home theatre knowledge would help you get teh most out of the 540R.
For example I wanted to setup a 4.1 with no center channel since my center was not connected yet. On the Marantz I used 4.1 was call using a "phantom" center channel. For the 540R your options are to set any of the speakers to Large/Small/Off. Turning off the center channel entirely automatically sets the DSP to the "phantom" centerchannel. So after watching a movie where people's lips were moving but there was no dialog I was able to discover this setting and it does a very good of recreating that "phantom" center.

Ok so lets start with the bad. I called multiple dealers across the country to confirm these details.

BAD: Well I researched my initial bad impressions and found solutions to them all. The binding posts have these strange insert caps over them. you can use banana plugs but it is not spaced properly for the dual bana plugs that are molded together. The wattage difference is do EU vs US voltage standards.


NEUTRAL
: Made in China (really what isnt these days)
: torridal power. I'm pretty certain this is marketing BS.
: I was disappointed at the lack of passive heatsinks since there was a big HOT warning on the unit but heat off the top of the of the receiver near the power supply never was more than warm to the touch even after extended use.
: no hdmi or dvi (this really isnt an all purpose AVR its more just a good AR. Good TVs have more than enough video inputs)

GOOD
+ Lightweight 20lbs. Most people hate light weight receivers as they feel cheap parts were used. News flash folks, modern electronics can produce higher quality lighter weight units. Which isnt to say the weight rule is bad, It just means the 540R is an exception.
+ no hiss, hum, buzz, or noise of any sort.
+music from 60dB to 80dB is all very detailed. Plays well at low volumes. Music instruments dont get their full weight until the 80dB range at which point its a live show. it will crank up past 100dB but its just too loud for my taste.
+ music overall has great sound stage, very detailed, and enough power to be very convincing.
+good match for medium sized rooms with medium sized speakers.
+works well for small rooms and small speakers. may be overkill.
+full 6.1 preamp out worked great to add a velodyne sub to the system and kept the volumes balanced. offers the option of having an additional set of powered nearfield monitors connected to receiver along with your usually speakers.
+ handles all types of music rock/rap/classical/techno well(all tested).


Playing BF2 and actually feeling a tank driving near as opposed to just hearing it. Movies are what I would expect them to be, very convincing. Musically I am quite happy with it. It did even out the frequency response over my old NAD 7220PE but the NAD was quite old. I havent been able to compare this side by side with current competition. The NAD T743 was my other candidate for the same price range of $800 or less. I got this unit on closeout sale for $500.


@ $500 I am very happy with my purchase and have decided not to exchange it for the NADT43.

 

[yhelothar]

Why not some Swan M200s?

 

[Fenixgoon]

if you can find them: S2 midilands.. they are godly speakers

 

[Goosemaster]

I am not familar withthe LM series....link?


and to the other posters B&W are audiophile quality....$$$$$......

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I am not familar withthe LM series....link?


and to the other posters B&W are audiophile quality....$$$$$......

Swans are too.
It depends on the model too.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I am not familar withthe LM series....link?


and to the other posters B&W are audiophile quality....$$$$$......

Swans are too.
It depends on the model too.

swans are good, but the m200s are not B&W-level

 

[Xyclone]

Sennheiser HD280's FTW

 

[Goosemaster]

I am looking at them both and for the msot part the aesthetics are the main difference.

Personally I would be concerned with whether the bigger driver makes a difference, and whether the alluminum is well sealed to prevent a tin-y sound

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I am not familar withthe LM series....link?


and to the other posters B&W are audiophile quality....$$$$$......

Swans are too.
It depends on the model too.

swans are good, but the m200s are not B&W-level

Not all B&W speakers are top notch.
In fact, the B&W speakers he posted looks a lot worse than the swans with the cheap plastic looking construction.
AFAIK, Swan's highest end speaker(5.1BC for $44k) costs more than B&W's highest end speaker(nautilus?)

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I am not familar withthe LM series....link?


and to the other posters B&W are audiophile quality....$$$$$......

Swans are too.
It depends on the model too.

swans are good, but the m200s are not B&W-level

Not all B&W speakers are top notch.
In fact, the B&W speakers he posted looks a lot worse than the swans with the cheap plastic looking construction.
AFAIK, Swan's highest end speaker(5.1BC for $44k) costs more than B&W's highest end speaker(nautilus?)

LOFL.....I didn't read "computer" in the OP.

For the most part, my knowledge is with floor standards.....I thought this was for a HT...my bad dude....

yeah, the swans are good as computer speakers


*backs out of thread slowly after acting the part of the town drunk*

 

[yhelothar]

np

 

[seanp789]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I am not familar withthe LM series....link?


and to the other posters B&W are audiophile quality....$$$$$......

I added links to the original post. The two models I'm looking at are the LM1 and M1, both are designed as a small form factor home theatre sat. The best speakers ive found at this form factor are actually the B&W XT2 LINK. The XT2s run $1,000 per pair so I would not be able to make good use of them without investing in a very nice amp/receiver and buying at least 4 speakers (cost jumps to $2,500+ not in my budget).

I currently have an X-Fi soundcard and the Logitech z5500 digital 5.1 speakers which are nice speakers for the $300 I paid, but musically they lack any good midrange. The plan is to add a good set of entry level B&Ws for the front L/R channels to improve the music quality of my system without spending a $1,000+ on just PC audio. In short I'm looking for the best price/performance as opposed to the best pure audiophile manchowdery goodness. So the guy that mentioned $44,000 swans is a little off topic, the best high end speaker maker may not make the best entry level compact speaker. I settled on these 2 B&Ws for their small size, excellent build quality (even the plastic one), and price under $500 for the pair.


The biggest question I want answered is, Will a 1" larger drive outweigh having a plastic cabinet?
(i.e. LM1 vs M1)

 

[seanp789]

*UPDATE* I looked into the Swan multimedia speakers thats were suggested. The m200 only handle up to 20Ws and the s200a system only handle up to 60w. these will not be strong enough in my system. I need speakers that will handle up to 75w preferably 100w for future amp upgrade needs.


Also, the Sennheiser HD280 are $99.99 headphones. I need speakers. Good HI-FI headphones run in the $300-$500 range.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Send a PM to yoyoyohowsdajello - he's pretty up to date on this stuff

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: seanp789
*UPDATE* I looked into the Swan multimedia speakers thats were suggested. The m200 only handle up to 20Ws and the s200a system only handle up to 60w. these will not be strong enough in my system. I need speakers that will handle up to 75w preferably 100w for future amp upgrade needs.


Also, the Sennheiser HD280 are $99.99 headphones. I need speakers. Good HI-FI headphones run in the $300-$500 range.

What are you talking about? Swan M200s are powered active monitors. They are 80W.
That said, wattage means very little when it comes to sound quality.

If you want some real monitors that won't break the bank, look into the Swan 2.1BC.
They are kinda big though.

 

[seanp789]

What are you talking about? Swan M200s are powered active monitors. They are 80W.
That said, wattage means very little when it comes to sound quality.

If you want some real monitors that won't break the bank, look into the Swan 2.1BC.
They are kinda big though.[/quote]

virtualgames0: I looked at the specs directly off the swan website. and they state
Frequency Response : 55Hz-25KHz
Sensitivity : 87dB
Nominal Impedance : 5O
Power Handling : 10-20WFrequency Response : 55Hz-25KHz
Sensitivity : 87dB
Nominal Impedance : 5O
Power Handling : 10-20W



I looked more into it since you stated that these are powered monitors. Indeed they are and THIS REVIEW (LINK) says that the speakers are actually running at 36w RMS per channel for a total of 72w (not quite 80w). If you read the review you can even try the swan speakers out for 30 days.

I checked the graphs and looks like their prime performance is between 100hz and 20Khz. For my needs, I did not want a self powered speaker and I wanted a speaker I could later use on a 100w per channel amp, however, I would not put off suggesting other readers to look into the swans. $200 for the pair would be a pretty good price performance ratio.

Now, For those of you still interested I found a Hi-Fi shop avsouth.com in Florida and was able to directly test 3 sets of speakers in their showrooms : B&W LM1, M1, and the DM600 S3. Now these speakers are $350+ per pair and are not self powered so they are really not in the same class as the Swans.

The M1 and the LM1 I would rate as similar in size, sound, and quality. The LM1 handled a little more powerful bass while the m-1's subjectively handled music a little better overall. I would recommend pairing a sub with either of these although I have to say they are absolutely amazing for their size. Light years above my logitech speakers and any other multimedia class speaker I've heard including Klipsch, Bose, and Creative.

The DM600 S3 ($350 per pair) LINK [REVIEW], WOW, I mean, WOW. These are relatively small bookshelf speakers still double the size of either the LM1 or M1. These speakers are about as close to true hi-fi you can get without blowing a grand or more. The sound out of these things is just beautiful. Crisp, powerful and detailed. I personally have now purchased the DM600 S3 s. They will be setup in on my system after new years so I will give some further impressions then. If you have the space for these speakers, a good enough amp, and $350 you absolutely must try these.

Height: 286mm (11.3in)
Width: 175mm (6.9in)
Depth: 219mm (8.6in)

I still feel the LM1 is a good choice if size is a major issue but with any of the 3 i mentioned you will need a decent amp, the magnets in these speakers are really really heavy.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Before you spend $400 on a pair of speakers and a receiver/amp to power them, go out and listen!

From the specs on these, it seems like both would do better with a sub unless you don't have much bass in your music.

SwanM200s that have been mentioned are a nice option and you don't need to get an amp for them.

There are a ton of options in this pricerange for bookshelf speakers.

I haven't really read anything about these sets, but there are some great options in this range that have gotten amazing reviews.
Something like Ascend 170s are right in this range and have similar specs.
They are very well liked as well. http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers...cend-acoustics/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx

If you have listened to the B&Ws though and like them, then go for it. You'll be able to decide for yourself then which model would suit you better. Just know that there are dozens of other options out there in this pricerange. It's really a personal thing about what sounds better to you though so go out and listen to some of these or order a few pairs from online retailers with their in home demo periods.

Oh, and also a decent set of $100 headphones is probably going to sound as good or better than a speaker system of this pricerange. No need to get a $300-$500 set of headphones to match the kind of quality you'd get from a $500 - $600 speaker system.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Well, I see now that you went out and listened to some real bookshelf speakers and were able to tell the difference vs the more "computer" oriented designs.

I'm glad you went out and did a demo :thumbsup:

It seems like you only hear B&W options though?

EDIT: Here's a fixed rig link for you, OP http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.aspx?rigid=29889

Oh and I just wanted to mention that of course Swan and a bunch of other companies have more expensive options in the B&W 600 series pricerange that would have been good to check out too. (Seemed like you were dismissing the Swan brand based on just the M200 specs)

 

[ahartman]

I have 5 of the M1s. A buddy of mine has the LM1s. The main reason I went with the M1s was the size and the WAF (wife approval factor). They're small, look great, and sound great.

I listened to both in a blind test (double-blind test unavailable) with my own source material.

I will say the LM1s have more of a midrange to them than the M1s, but they're also a bit larger so that's expected. Both sets really need a sub, but in a pinch I suppose you could listen to the LM1s without if you aren't too picky - you can't get away with that with the M1s.

Dialogue was more clear to me on the M1s, while music vocals sounded great on the LM1s, dialogue seemed a little muddy to me.

Get a sub and I don't think you can go wrong with either for bookshelf speakers.

For me, the M1s sounded better (with a sub) and looked WAY better. YAY for wall mounted speakers with zero wire showing!

Oh, and for my two cents, ignore all speaker specs and go listen to them at a place you can trust - every speaker maker cooks the specs.

 

[Goosemaster]

<---wuvs his Mirage towers

 

[seanp789]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Well, I see now that you went out and listened to some real bookshelf speakers and were able to tell the difference vs the more "computer" oriented designs.

I'm glad you went out and did a demo :thumbsup:

It seems like you only hear B&W options though?

EDIT: Here's a fixed rig link for you, OP http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.aspx?rigid=29889

Oh and I just wanted to mention that of course Swan and a bunch of other companies have more expensive options in the B&W 600 series pricerange that would have been good to check out too. (Seemed like you were dismissing the Swan brand based on just the M200 specs)

Lol , thanks for the corrections and such YOyoYOhowsDAjello. I tried not to put down the swans in case anyone else was also "shopping" since i have zero experience with the swans. I also linked a positive review for the M200s. They just simply didnt match the direction i was heading for my specific audio setup and I only looked at the specific models that were suggested in the previous posts.

Yes, I've become pretty bias to the B&W brand but I've also spent a great deal of time researching their company and their speaker building philosophy. I like that they are not made in China like the Swans and some very solid design innovations as opposed to some high tech marketing BS. In my search I've come across many very good speak companies. This list shrinks dramatically when you hit the compact multimedia speaker. I had already ruled out using active monitors which shortens the list again. To my own surprise I fell in love with the compact bookshelf speaker which was what I was completely trying to avoid. Now I didnt look at bookshelves at all before I listened to the DM600 but I am still very happy with my decision. I paid $350 and I got an excellent set of speakers. the best? no idea... but from everything they had in the showrooms these are very classy speakers. Same price as the LM1s btw.

Moral of the story, the b&w are amazing speakers for a small room, however, there are sooooo many options at a similar or lower price range you may have to demo the speakers yourself to find whats right for you.

 

[seanp789]

Originally posted by: ahartman
I have 5 of the M1s. A buddy of mine has the LM1s. The main reason I went with the M1s was the size and the WAF (wife approval factor). They're small, look great, and sound great.

I listened to both in a blind test (double-blind test unavailable) with my own source material.

I will say the LM1s have more of a midrange to them than the M1s, but they're also a bit larger so that's expected. Both sets really need a sub, but in a pinch I suppose you could listen to the LM1s without if you aren't too picky - you can't get away with that with the M1s.

Dialogue was more clear to me on the M1s, while music vocals sounded great on the LM1s, dialogue seemed a little muddy to me.

Get a sub and I don't think you can go wrong with either for bookshelf speakers.

For me, the M1s sounded better (with a sub) and looked WAY better. YAY for wall mounted speakers with zero wire showing!

Oh, and for my two cents, ignore all speaker specs and go listen to them at a place you can trust - every speaker maker cooks the specs.

Thank god no WAF yet, my GAF factor went to ****** though when my girlfriend somehow thought I spent $3500 not $350. Dont know how that got lost in translation but needless to say I was very confused.


Also, just for the record thats 2 direct opinions in favor of the M-1s.

 

[yhelothar]

Ok I understand that the M200s isn't what you're looking for. But I think the Swan 2.1 would be great. It has a similar design to the B&Ws, with larger drivers, and costs less($300/pair). Oh and they're inactive too, so you can use your amp for them.
You could buy the 2.1s at newegg
link to user review, guy on bottom compares to his B&W speakers


Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the B&Ws. I'm just showing you some options.

 

[spidey07]

IMHO...

What you want are a decent set of true monitors coupled with a decent amp.

You're listening near field and won't need too much power - 50 watts at the most depending on the speaker.

I can't recommend any models because it is all in what you like. Try taking your favorite tunes to a local hi-fi shop and having them set up a pair similar to your listening distance and go from there.

-edit-
if you are dead set on B&W, listen to the nautilus line.

For monitors I've always had a love for Boston Acoustics. But that is just me.

 

[seanp789]

Now looking for a new amp...

so far yamaha htr 5840 LINKis my top choice for low cost, good clean power and some room for future upgrades.