High court refuses Schiavo appeal

[Tommunist]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01....schiavo.ap/index.html

I personally think her parents are delusional - her brain is mush - she dead in all ways except that her heart is still beating...

 

[BDawg]

Good...this is not a legislative decision. Let the poor woman die.

 

[JackStorm]

I remember this case, been awhile since someone brought it up.

Personally, if I was braindead and hooked up to some machine to stay alive, I'd want someone to pull the plug. That's all I have to say.

 

[CycloWizard]

From the Florida Supreme Court ruling:

The trial court found by clear and convincing evidence that Theresa Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state and that Theresa would elect to cease life-prolonging procedures if she were competent
to make her own decision.

That should be all that is required. If it is clear she's in a PVS, there's no reason to continue feeding. Very sad for everyone involved. It sounds like her parents don't really understand what's going on. 🙁

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
From the Florida Supreme Court ruling:

The trial court found by clear and convincing evidence that Theresa Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state and that Theresa would elect to cease life-prolonging procedures if she were competent
to make her own decision.

That should be all that is required. If it is clear she's in a PVS, there's no reason to continue feeding. Very sad for everyone involved. It sounds like her parents don't really understand what's going on. 🙁

indeed.

 

[Grunt03]

I think they should let her pass on. Being hooked to a machine is no way to live a life. As for her parents, shove it, she is a grown adult with a husband, if she cannot make the decision then the surviveing spouce should be granted the sole power of makeing the decision.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Grunt03
I think they should let her pass on. Being hooked to a machine is no way to live a life. As for her parents, shove it, she is a grown adult with a husband, if she cannot make the decision then the surviveing spouce should be granted the sole power of makeing the decision.

Because starving to death would be so much better for her than lying in a bed for the rest of her life. WTF?!?!?!

Her husband didn't mind having her hooked to the machine until he wanted to marry someone else. At least her parents aren't trying to trade her in for another daughter.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Grunt03
I think they should let her pass on. Being hooked to a machine is no way to live a life. As for her parents, shove it, she is a grown adult with a husband, if she cannot make the decision then the surviveing spouce should be granted the sole power of makeing the decision.

Because starving to death would be so much better for her than lying in a bed for the rest of her life. WTF?!?!?!

Her husband didn't mind having her hooked to the machine until he wanted to marry someone else. At least her parents aren't trying to trade her in for another daughter.

1. She is an empty shell at this point - there is no hope for rehibilitation or function in any sense. She is completely unaware what is going on right now (or anything for that matter) - a waste of resources.

2. I think it's pretty presumptous to assume he wants this only to "trade her in." I would be willing to bet that she would want her husband to be able to move on and live out his life (at least if she loved him this is what she should want).

I think you need to learn more about the situation before you go and accuse this guy of anything. Any way you slice it though she is for all intents and purposes dead on the inside already.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Grunt03
I think they should let her pass on. Being hooked to a machine is no way to live a life. As for her parents, shove it, she is a grown adult with a husband, if she cannot make the decision then the surviveing spouce should be granted the sole power of makeing the decision.

Because starving to death would be so much better for her than lying in a bed for the rest of her life. WTF?!?!?!

Her husband didn't mind having her hooked to the machine until he wanted to marry someone else. At least her parents aren't trying to trade her in for another daughter.

1. She is an empty shell at this point - there is no hope for rehibilitation or function in any sense. She is completely unaware what is going on right now (or anything for that matter) - a waste of resources.

2. I think it's pretty presumptous to assume he wants this only to "trade her in." I would be willing to bet that she would want her husband to be able to move on and live out his life (at least if she loved him this is what she should want).

I think you need to learn more about the situation before you go and accuse this guy of anything. Any way you slice it though she is for all intents and purposes dead on the inside already.

Is she? I'd like to borrow your crystal ball sometime. And I'm being presumptuous?

Her husband can move on anytime he wants, he's already had a kid with the other woman. It's called divorce, and there's not a single reason why he can't use that option, instead of taking the Peterson route. I'd want my husband to move on, too. But I don't need to die first.

This is the 21st century, for crying out loud. And we're going to sit back and watch her starve to death, with full press coverage. God bless America.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Tommunist

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Grunt03
I think they should let her pass on. Being hooked to a machine is no way to live a life. As for her parents, shove it, she is a grown adult with a husband, if she cannot make the decision then the surviveing spouce should be granted the sole power of makeing the decision.

Because starving to death would be so much better for her than lying in a bed for the rest of her life. WTF?!?!?!

Her husband didn't mind having her hooked to the machine until he wanted to marry someone else. At least her parents aren't trying to trade her in for another daughter.

1. She is an empty shell at this point - there is no hope for rehibilitation or function in any sense. She is completely unaware what is going on right now (or anything for that matter) - a waste of resources.

2. I think it's pretty presumptous to assume he wants this only to "trade her in." I would be willing to bet that she would want her husband to be able to move on and live out his life (at least if she loved him this is what she should want).

I think you need to learn more about the situation before you go and accuse this guy of anything. Any way you slice it though she is for all intents and purposes dead on the inside already.

Is she? I'd like to borrow your crystal ball sometime. And I'm being presumptuous?

Her husband can move on anytime he wants, he's already had a kid with the other woman. It's called divorce, and there's not a single reason why he can't use that option, instead of taking the Peterson route. I'd want my husband to move on, too. But I don't need to die first.

This is the 21st century, for crying out loud. And we're going to sit back and watch her starve to death, with full press coverage. God bless America.

If her parents weren't fighting this you wouldn't know or care about it. The person that she was no longer exists - she has only the most basic brain functions. Who would want this life even if they did know what was going on? Let's look at this like she is fully aware of whats going on (even though she almost definitely is not)....

1. she can't communicate (it's been 15 years - nothing is going to change)
2. she can't feed herself
3. she can't move around
4. must realize she is only a burden on those who care about her
5. bed sores
6. general discomfort, etc.
7. feeling completely trapped in her body

and probably a bunch of things I can't even imagine...

Now this is assuming she has the mental capacity to know anything - which is incredibly unlikely. But again, assuming she is conscious she is in living hell right now. Who would want this? Part of respecting life is knowing when to let go - not just grasping at straws.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Tommunist

If her parents weren't fighting this you wouldn't know or care about it. The person that she was no longer exists - she has only the most basic brain functions. Who would want this life even if they did know what was going on? Let's look at this like she is fully aware of whats going on (even though she almost definitely is not)....

1. she can't communicate (it's been 15 years - nothing is going to change)
2. she can't feed herself
3. she can't move around
4. must realize she is only a burden on those who care about her
5. bed sores
6. general discomfort, etc.
7. feeling completely trapped in her body

and probably a bunch of things I can't even imagine...

Now this is assuming she has the mental capacity to know anything - which is incredibly unlikely. But again, assuming she is conscious she is in living hell right now. Who would want this? Part of respecting life is knowing when to let go - not just grasping at straws.

You have no earthly idea what is going on in her brain. No one does. Medical science hasn't got that far. But the doctors must be right, after all, only pharmaceutical companies make mistakes and act on partial information. So let's kill her quick. Starving to death will take days, and don't think she won't suffer during the process. If she's going to die, let's get 'er done, fast and dirty.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Tommunist

If her parents weren't fighting this you wouldn't know or care about it. The person that she was no longer exists - she has only the most basic brain functions. Who would want this life even if they did know what was going on? Let's look at this like she is fully aware of whats going on (even though she almost definitely is not)....

1. she can't communicate (it's been 15 years - nothing is going to change)
2. she can't feed herself
3. she can't move around
4. must realize she is only a burden on those who care about her
5. bed sores
6. general discomfort, etc.
7. feeling completely trapped in her body

and probably a bunch of things I can't even imagine...

Now this is assuming she has the mental capacity to know anything - which is incredibly unlikely. But again, assuming she is conscious she is in living hell right now. Who would want this? Part of respecting life is knowing when to let go - not just grasping at straws.

You have no earthly idea what is going on in her brain. No one does. Medical science hasn't got that far. But the doctors must be right, after all, only pharmaceutical companies make mistakes and act on partial information. So let's kill her quick. Starving to death will take days, and don't think she won't suffer during the process. If she's going to die, let's get 'er done, fast and dirty.

use some morphine - it's a common practice of euthanasia - go real nice and gentle.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Tommunist

use some morphine - it's a common practice of euthanasia - go real nice and gentle.

If she has to die, let her go to sleep and have it over with. We don't let murderers starve to death, but it's okay for someone who did nothing wrong?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: sixone
Because starving to death would be so much better for her than lying in a bed for the rest of her life. WTF?!?!?!

Her husband didn't mind having her hooked to the machine until he wanted to marry someone else. At least her parents aren't trying to trade her in for another daughter.

A persistent vegetative state basically means that your brain ceases to function except for the most rudementary functions (heartbeat, breathing) which are carried out in the brain stem. The person in a PVS cannot feel pain, has no cognitive abilities, and has zero chance of improvement. It's not easy to accept, but it is the same thing as brain death except for brain stem survival. PVS is a well-documented condition. Believe me, if there were any chance that she could survive and even be a thinking human, even if she could not communicate with the outside world, then I would be pulling for her. Unfortunately, this is not the case. There is a big difference between this condition and a coma, for example, because someone in a coma still has thoughts, can still recover.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: sixone
Because starving to death would be so much better for her than lying in a bed for the rest of her life. WTF?!?!?!

Her husband didn't mind having her hooked to the machine until he wanted to marry someone else. At least her parents aren't trying to trade her in for another daughter.

A persistent vegetative state basically means that your brain ceases to function except for the most rudementary functions (heartbeat, breathing) which are carried out in the brain stem. The person in a PVS cannot feel pain, has no cognitive abilities, and has zero chance of improvement. It's not easy to accept, but it is the same thing as brain death except for brain stem survival. PVS is a well-documented condition. Believe me, if there were any chance that she could survive and even be a thinking human, even if she could not communicate with the outside world, then I would be pulling for her. Unfortunately, this is not the case. There is a big difference between this condition and a coma, for example, because someone in a coma still has thoughts, can still recover.

Thank you for the explanation - this is the sad truth. Just to make myself feel better I considered the miniscule chance that the doctors were wrong but I still came to same conclusion. But for all intents and purposes she's dead (as you have stated).

 

[Jadow]

she gonna die now

I don't have a problem with pulling the feeding tube. It's sad, but is it really natural to hook a person up to a machine like Darth Vader?

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: Jadow
she gonna die now

I don't have a problem with pulling the feeding tube. It's sad, but is it really natural to hook a person up to a machine like Darth Vader?

In situations like this I like to ask myself...

What would The Emporer do?

 

[halik]

that lady has been dead for the past 15 years. Pulling the plug is just a technicality. A body is not what makes up a person....

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: sixone

Her husband can move on anytime he wants, he's already had a kid with the other woman. It's called divorce, and there's not a single reason why he can't use that option, instead of taking the Peterson route. I'd want my husband to move on, too. But I don't need to die first.

I think that's the whole problem. Since she's alive, he can't divorce her unless she signs the papers and whatnot, and obviously she can't do that. I'm sure he mourned her loss 10 years ago and was able to move on, and good for him. Her parents just aren't able to accept the fact that their daughter died 15 years ago. It's understandable up to a point, but then you have to realize that you have accept it. Otherwise, you're just living in denial, which sadly they are.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: PinwiZ

Originally posted by: sixone

Her husband can move on anytime he wants, he's already had a kid with the other woman. It's called divorce, and there's not a single reason why he can't use that option, instead of taking the Peterson route. I'd want my husband to move on, too. But I don't need to die first.

I think that's the whole problem. Since she's alive, he can't divorce her unless she signs the papers and whatnot, and obviously she can't do that. I'm sure he mourned her loss 10 years ago and was able to move on, and good for him. Her parents just aren't able to accept the fact that their daughter died 15 years ago. It's understandable up to a point, but then you have to realize that you have accept it. Otherwise, you're just living in denial, which sadly they are.

no no - all men are evil - that's the problem!!! 😛

 

[sixone]

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do you realize that you are advocating the death of an innocent woman - because you wouldn't want her life???? She is a living, breathing human being. Who the hell are you to say she would be better off dead?

Her husband can divorce her. Floria divorce law makes provisions for an incapacitated person. He could turn guardianship over to her parents, who have made it clear they will accept full responsibility for her. He's the only person who doesn't want that to happen? Does that sound right to you?

And you're not just supporting her death. You seem to think they're going to pull out a tube and that'll be that. It will take her as long as 14 days to die from the dehydration. Do you think that doesn't qualify as cruel and unusual? Why not put her body into a sleep that it will never wake up from? Wouldn't that be more humane?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: sixone
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do you realize that you are advocating the death of an innocent woman - because you wouldn't want her life???? She is a living, breathing human being. Who the hell are you to say she would be better off dead?

Her husband can divorce her. Floria divorce law makes provisions for an incapacitated person. He could turn guardianship over to her parents, who have made it clear they will accept full responsibility for her. He's the only person who doesn't want that to happen? Does that sound right to you?

And you're not just supporting her death. You seem to think they're going to pull out a tube and that'll be that. It will take her as long as 14 days to die from the dehydration. Do you think that doesn't qualify as cruel and unusual? Why not put her body into a sleep that it will never wake up from? Wouldn't that be more humane?

I took an entire course on the ethics of decisions such as these. Read up on the medical nature of a persistent vegetative state and hopefully you can understand why it's actually often unethical to keep someone plugged in if they're in such a state. It is always a sad decision, but there comes a point when you have to let go. We could keep everyone alive through purely artificial means indefinitely, but does that serve their dignity as a person?

And the point of a persistent vegetative state is that her body is already in a sleep that it will never wake up from.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: sixone
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do you realize that you are advocating the death of an innocent woman - because you wouldn't want her life???? She is a living, breathing human being. Who the hell are you to say she would be better off dead?

Her husband can divorce her. Floria divorce law makes provisions for an incapacitated person. He could turn guardianship over to her parents, who have made it clear they will accept full responsibility for her. He's the only person who doesn't want that to happen? Does that sound right to you?

And you're not just supporting her death. You seem to think they're going to pull out a tube and that'll be that. It will take her as long as 14 days to die from the dehydration. Do you think that doesn't qualify as cruel and unusual? Why not put her body into a sleep that it will never wake up from? Wouldn't that be more humane?

I took an entire course on the ethics of decisions such as these. Read up on the medical nature of a persistent vegetative state and hopefully you can understand why it's actually unethical to keep someone plugged in if they're in such a state. It is always a sad decision, but there comes a point when you have to let go. We could keep everyone alive through purely artificial means indefinitely, but does that serve their dignity as a person?

And the point of a persistent vegetative state is that her body is already in a sleep that it will never wake up from.

Well said :beer:

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

I took an entire course on the ethics of decisions such as these. Read up on the medical nature of a persistent vegetative state and hopefully you can understand why it's actually unethical to keep someone plugged in if they're in such a state. It is always a sad decision, but there comes a point when you have to let go. We could keep everyone alive through purely artificial means indefinitely, but does that serve their dignity as a person?

And the point of a persistent vegetative state is that her body is already in a sleep that it will never wake up from.

Well said :beer:

[/quote]

Well said??? How does death by starvation/dehydration serve Terri's dignity as a person? Are you saying she should die because she is suffering, or because she is incapable of suffering?

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

I took an entire course on the ethics of decisions such as these. Read up on the medical nature of a persistent vegetative state and hopefully you can understand why it's actually unethical to keep someone plugged in if they're in such a state. It is always a sad decision, but there comes a point when you have to let go. We could keep everyone alive through purely artificial means indefinitely, but does that serve their dignity as a person?

And the point of a persistent vegetative state is that her body is already in a sleep that it will never wake up from.

Well said :beer:

Well said??? How does death by starvation/dehydration serve Terri's dignity as a person? Are you saying she should die because she is suffering, or because she is incapable of suffering?[/quote]

She is all ready dead.