High bang for buck Audiophile Soundcard recomendations

morme

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2004
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I am looking for a good sound card who's primary purpose is to output to the HiFi.

Not interested in Home Theatre (MidFi) use at all
I just listen to an old (but good) system consisting of
Rogers LS 3/5A speakers on stands
Hafler DH101 Preamp
Hafler DH220 power amp
powered 8" subwoofer

I am amazed at how different the same file sounds in different DVD players (that can play mp3), but the on-board sound in the Shuttle sounds worst of all (output cabled to pre amp in)

all my cd's are ripped, and I either burn 150 song compilations on a cd and play in the dvd player, or listen to playlists from the computer. I should try to see if the dvd player will play a dvd rom with a thousand tracks on it. Some peoples music collection.

mp3 files are lame standard

The only card I have seen discussed is the Chaintec AV-710. Any others, if 5.1 etc is not an issue?

thanks

 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
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Honestly, if you are a *true* audiophile, the only things I think would satisfy you are an Audigy 2 (NOT cheap), or a Turtle Beach Catalina (which I am strongly considering).

From what I've seen in the review, Turtle Beach's cards are GOBS cheaper than Creative's, and are every bit as good quality. I have no firsthand experience, so I couldn't tell you, but I suyppose they're definitely worth considering:

http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/soundcards/
 

imported_amx

Senior member
Sep 3, 2004
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AUdigy 2 and Turtle beach sound cards are NOT audiophile soundcards. Audigy 2 is great for gaming and mediacore sound card for music. Chaintech beats audigy 2 in music. it has better dacs.
If you want a good audiophile level sound car you should looking int o M-Audio and EMU now owned by creative.

Personally i prefer EMU

Bang for the buck = Chaintech AV 710
Nothing can beat this $25 card.
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
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Originally posted by: amx
AUdigy 2 and Turtle beach sound cards are NOT audiophile soundcards. Audigy 2 is great for gaming and mediacore sound card for music.



Since when did "audiophile" only refer to music?

I think someone's mixed up here.
 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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"How about the M-Audio Revolution 6.1?"
6.1 (non-existent), Did you mean Revolution 5.1 or 7.1?

"Chaintech beats audigy 2 in music. it has better dacs."
Correction, Audigy 2's DAC > Chaintech's DAC FWIW

"Since when did "audiophile" only refer to music?"
Audiophile
"A person having an ardent interest in stereo or high-fidelity sound reproduction." - Dictionary.com

Would gaming sound effects (not sound quality) be considered as high-fidelity sound reproduction? Nevertheless considering the OP stated/implied that it was for musical use I agree with the previous post (mentioned above). The Audigy 2 shouldn't be considered as "Audiophile quality" when music reproduction is the aim here & better options near (below?) and above the Audigy 2's pricepoint are available i.e. EMU, RME, etc.
 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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How many speaker channels are we talking about here and what's your budget?
 

morme

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: Insomniak
Honestly, if you are a *true* audiophile, the only things I think would satisfy you are an Audigy 2 (NOT cheap), or a Turtle Beach Catalina (which I am strongly considering).

From what I've seen in the review, Turtle Beach's cards are GOBS cheaper than Creative's, and are every bit as good quality. I have no firsthand experience, so I couldn't tell you, but I suyppose they're definitely worth considering:

http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/soundcards/

I considered the Turtle Beach, but the high sampling rate is only for SPDIF. The codec sampling rate is only 20 bit. 48 kh

The m-audio looks pretty good. It would be nice to see some listening tests somewhere
 

morme

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: Algere
How many speaker channels are we talking about here and what's your budget?

see the first post. 2 speakers STEREO HiFi (what you used to call playing records)

Home Theatre is MidFi at the best. My Best friends $6000 M&K 7.2 system does not sound as good as my system for music. It will play louder (a THX spec) Center channel screws uo stereo. It is there to anchor voices to the TV. There are no musical recordings in home theatre formats. The extra 3, 4, or 5 speakers are there so the helicopter in a movie flies over your head. It is not for listening to Miles Davis (Or Portishead, whatever your calling)

 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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"is the Chaintech AV 710 a pretty good all around card? gaming, music, movies"

It'll do the job but I'd rather get something else for a bit more.
 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: morme
Originally posted by: Algere
How many speaker channels are we talking about here and what's your budget?

see the first post. 2 speakers STEREO HiFi (what you used to call playing records)

Home Theatre is MidFi at the best. My Best friends $6000 M&K 7.2 system does not sound as good as my system for music. It will play louder (a THX spec) Center channel screws uo stereo. It is there to anchor voices to the TV. There are no musical recordings in home theatre formats. The extra 3, 4, or 5 speakers are there so the helicopter in a movie flies over your head. It is not for listening to Miles Davis (Or Portishead, whatever your calling)
And how much (budget) are you willing to spend on a sound card?

P.S. Music recordings can come in more than 2 channel flavors hence why I asked.
 

morme

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2004
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[/quote]
And how much (budget) are you willing to spend on a sound card?

P.S. Music recordings comes in more than 2 channel flavors hence why I asked.[/quote]

Point me to a music CD. I'd be interested in listening (I have lots of HiFi equipment, it would take nothing to set up more channels

Budget is high bang for buck ratio. Don't need a $200 sound card (Or I would probably get wireless music for the convenience). The m-audio revolution 7.1 is only $90. I don't really need recording features, just playback
 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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"Point me to a music CD"
With more than 2 channels? e.g. this although I wouldn't know your tastes to say it's something you'd be interested in.

For the sound card (based on budget preference)

2 Channel = EMU 0404 $99
Multichannel = M-Audio Revolution 5.1 $70

 

morme

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2004
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Old albums remixed to DTS, what's the point. The music was neither conceived of, nor recorded as "surround sound". You have to remember that 4 channel surround sound was a big thing in the 70's. It didn't catch on for a reason. That's not how we listen to music. (unless you are a member of the band). If you ever listen to a live jazz ensemble, you can see/hear each instrument a few feet away from you. To hear a flute behind in a recording you mucks it up.

I am sure that the Boys to Men crowd are easily impressed though.

They will also only play in a DVD (with DTS), or your computer. It is easy to create effects. My DVD player will output 7.1 channel stereo, and matrix it all to get the "wow" efffects.

Not my bag. If I want effects over my head, I'll watch star wars, not listen to Mahler

Where can I get the M-Audio Revolution 5.1 for $70 though?

thanx

 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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"Old albums remixed to DTS, what's the point. The music was neither conceived of, nor recorded as "surround sound"."
It was just an example and what about present/future recordings?

"You have to remember that 4 channel surround sound was a big thing in the 70's. It didn't catch on for a reason"
Perhaps because surround sound systems wasn't practical in homes back then and in contrast to today, it is (or more common)? FWIW wasn't alive back then to remember. As for applications for surround music I can think of one. Say e.g. live orchestrated music recorded @ a concert hall, AFAIK you don't get that surround concert hall sound from 2 channels alone.

"They will also only play in a DVD (with DTS), or your computer."
You did say you were gonna use it on a computer and IIRC computers can have DVD players installed.

"Where can I get the M-Audio Revolution 5.1 for $70 though?"
NewEgg.com
 

Sentinel

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: Algere
"is the Chaintech AV 710 a pretty good all around card? gaming, music, movies"

It'll do the job but I'd rather get something else for a bit more.

Ok just checking i hadnt heard much about it. I just need something better than my POS c-media.
 

morme

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: Algere

"Where can I get the M-Audio Revolution 5.1 for $70 though?"
NewEgg.com

Thanks. That will probably be the card I get.

It was just an example and what about present/future recordings?

Music will probably remain stereo, since most CD's are sold to users that use 2 channel playback (Walkman, boom box, headphones, your car etc.) Music is different than theatre. The majority of CD's are sold to kids. Eminem, etc. Many Audiophiles have huge record collections, and still use turntables. I have over 1200 records, but they are in storage. Playing a record is just a PIA these days. I downloaded most of what I like, riped all of my CD's and put everything in storage (see allofmp3.com, and if you download, select the advanced lame standard codec) I also rip radioparadise.com. Having over 20,000 tracks on a hard disk is a lot more manageable than the hard media. (hense the need for a good sound card)

Perhaps because surround sound systems wasn't practical in homes back then and in contrast to today, it is (or more common)? FWIW wasn't alive back then to remember.

There were a lot of them. Quadrophonic recordings (on records), etc. In fact it was probably better. Everyone made quad receivers. People bought 4 really good speakers up front (12" 3 way systems, etc). Home Theatre these days is mostly (not all) crap speaker systems. (Check out the reasonably inexpensive home theatre packages at http://www.creativesound.ca/ near the bottom of the page) Home Theatre is not designed for HiFidelity music reproduction. In fact, the "guru's" of Home Theater say that you should try to reproduce the movie theatre sound. Well, movie theatres use horm loaded PA systems that are designed to fill up a large theatre, and horns sound like crap. The Speakers in a theatre do not differ from what was used in the 40's. If you are interested in what some audiophiles think, read the first 2 issues at http://www.audioperfectionist.com.

As for applications for surround music I can think of one. Say e.g. live orchestrated music recorded @ a concert hall, AFAIK you don't get that surround concert hall sound from 2 channels alone.

A good stereo reproduces this very well. There are no sound sources behind you, or on your side in a concert hall. What you hear are reflections off the walls. (unless at the Hollywood Bowl, or any other outside venue) Of course if your Stereo speakers can't reproduce a good stereo image to start with, you then add even worse speakers to the rear to make up for it.

Google microphone placement in a concert hall. You will find that they mostly use 2 stereo pairs about 30 feet apart (front to rear spacing), mixed to stereo.

You can't tell where the sound is coming from with my 2 little speakers if I hang a cloth in front of them. (You should use a curtain made from a reasonably acoustically transparent grill cloth material)

Of course, some people like my best friend spend the bucks. (Single guy who is a pilot flying wide bodys on international routes) see http://www.mksound.com/pricegrid1.php in his defense, he purchased all the components off ebay at a discount.
He uses
3 S-150 speakers (mirror image stereo pair, plus the center channel
2 SS-150 II Tripole for the rear
2 SW-95 side speakers
2 V-125 12" powered subwoofers

He was not to upset when I pointed out that the drivers in the boxes are reasonably inespensive Vifa drivers. The reason for lots of drivers in each box is the THX power handling spec, not better imaging/sound. It sounds good, but with critical listening to music, he agrees that mine sound better. (More speakers does not necessarily make for a better sound) Of course, when watching Private Ryan, his kills mine completely. But, I don't have a 60" wide screen TV in a 500 square foot room with the couch in the middle of it, and the need to jump when there are explosions. A good HT setup requires a good room. You need speakers 6-8-10 feet behind you, etc. Side speakers the same distance away.



 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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"Thanks. That will probably be the card I get."
I'd rather get the EMU 0404 if all of my music is 2 channel (assuming your in that situation). The reason I recommended the Revolution 5.1 was due to it's price relative to your budget + multichannel/DTS capabilities in case you did or will listen to multichannel music as the EMU 0404 only supports up 2 channels (max) but makes up for it in sound quality which is considerably above that of the Revolution 5.1.

"Music will probably remain stereo, since most CD's are sold to users that use 2 channel playback (Walkman, boom box, headphones, your car etc.)"
Actually when music is recorded isn't it recorded as a bunch of single (mono) channels i.e. singing into a mic, Guitar feeding into a preamp, other instruments, etc. etc.? From that point it can be seperated into 2 seperate sound channels (Left/Right) or more. I'll agree with you about the majority of music played/sold today exist as stereo but to say that music will remain stereo, I dunno about that. Maybe you should've said most played/sold music will probably remain stereo only, no?

"Home Theatre these days is mostly (not all) crap speaker systems. (Check out the reasonably inexpensive home theatre packages at http://www.creativesound.ca/ near the bottom of the page) Home Theatre is not designed for HiFidelity music reproduction."
The quality of such a setup depends on what speakers & whatnot is used & IIRC I never said HT systems/packages, I said surround or multichannel setups and by meaning wouldn't that extend to a larger base which includes, but is not limited to HT setups?

"A good stereo reproduces this very well. There are no sound sources behind you, or on your side in a concert hall. What you hear are reflections off the walls."
That's what I said from the getgo concerning the rear channels of a multichannel setup hence why I mentioned in my example (above) concert hall and not studio room, I wasn't implying that originating instrument/vocal sources come from behind you.

Now while you said, "A good stereo reproduces this very well" it doesn't compare to having 3 front channels (left, center, right) which can improve how vocals/instruments are placed in front of you (e.g. vocals from the center channel, guitar from the left channel, and drums from the right channel). Which is closer to the positioning of a stage band in front of you compared to stereo where vocals are shared between both left and right sound channels.
 

Zap Brannigan

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2004
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I can't say enough good things about the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 it is better for games than the M-Audio Rev, and in many reviews it says it sounds a bit better for music than the M-Audio Rev as well.

I have owned the Prodigy for a couple of weeks now and it is the best sound card I have ever owned, I replaced my Audigy 2 with it.

Did I mention it has a free headphone amp built into the control panel?
 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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"it is better for games than the M-Audio Rev"
Depends on the Sensaura build and I've only heard about that when the Prodigy and Revolution initially came out. By now Sensaura builds could be the same between both cards and with the 5.1 version of the Revolution based on the Envy24 GT sound processor, there may be lower CPU utilization to be had in games.

"in many reviews it says it sounds a bit better for music than the M-Audio Rev as well."
Which Revo was reviewed? Cause the 5.1 version (newer) has a better/different DAC than the 7.1 version.

"Did I mention it has a free headphone amp built into the control panel?"
Revolution 5.1 has a dedicated headphone jack (seperate from front channel) which is a few dB louder than the line out of the front channel. Another sound card that I'm aware of that also has this feature is the Santa Cruz.
 

Zap Brannigan

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2004
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The main difference in the cards is drivers. The Prodigy has superior drivers. Sensaura is sepereted from the Prodigy drivers on the Audiotrak which is fantastic. The Prodigy does not suffer the huge framerate hits in games that the otherwise excelent M-Audio Revolution does.

The two cards are both good choice, but from what I have read in comparrisons of the two (Prodigy/M-Audio) is that the Prodigy is a bit more refinend, and excelent card to listen to Jazz and Classical music for instance; where as they mention the M-Audio is a more "ballsy rock 'n roll fun style card".

Also the Prodigy has Direct Wire.

Either card sounds like an excellent choice and head and shoulders above the Audigy in my opinion. I lose no sleep not having eax 3 or 4 in exchange for excellent sound. My games also seem to have a nicer sound to them as well for some reason, I noticed this immeidiatly. Much more of an immersive sound field for games than the M-Auido I also read in a review.

As far as frame rate hits, i'm not feeling them anyway having recently upgraded to a Geforce 6800GT from the good people at New Egg.
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
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how much budget are we talking? i am a happy camper with my modded EMU-1212M, but if i had enough $$$ i would have gone chaintech + Benchmark DAC-1.
 

Algere

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: VanillaH
how much budget are we talking? i am a happy camper with my modded EMU-1212M, but if i had enough $$$ i would have gone chaintech + Benchmark DAC-1.
Budget was under $200 and around the $90 mark (least that's what I got) or best/high bang for buck.