hi8 to dv, is it worth it?

[mudtunnel]

i am interested in setting up a video editing system with some amount of future proofing. right now i have a hi8 video camera, but i eventually plan to upgrade to dv. i read several ideas that address how to input hi8 to dv, either through something like a DV.nowAV or buying a digital8 camera or digital8 player and feeding the video through firewire - in which case why bother with my hi8 camera once i've converted my analog tapes. both of these solutions cost about US$500. so, aside from having a dv compatible setup, what other benefits are there for going this route versus buying a $50 wintv card and capturing with virtualdub? less time, less cpu usage, what? if converting to dv is a good idea, are there any cheaper ways - than the ones i listed - to get hi8 to digital? also, what kind of cpu, firewire, software would you recommend.

thanks for any guidance. there are so many ways to go with this, each time i think i know what i want i read something that makes me completely rethink things.

 

[mudtunnel]

does anyone know a good website that has a comparison between analog and digital video?

i was under the impression that once it was on the harddrive, it's all the same to edit, but i was told that's not the case - although the person who told me this didn't know why, except that it was faster to edit (?).

 

[codehack2]

Yes it is worth it.. and yes, the DV.Now AV is a great product. Now is a great time to get into the DV market, as the cameras are really dropping in price. Try this site for a good primer on DV camera's.

Beal's Corner

It really focuses on the Sony TRV900, but also has a ton of helpfull info.

FYI, I also own a couple of Sony D8 camera's, and couldn't be more pleased with them. After owning both MiniDV cameras, and D8, I am hard pressed to tell the difference.

CH2

 

[mudtunnel]

thanks, ch2! that's a great link. i'm definitely drooling for a digital8 camera now.

my big problem is that i haven't worked with dv format. i'm curious to know how it's better than analog once it's copied to the hard drive. i read that a 30 second analog clip can take up to 120 times longer to convert from avi to mpeg2, than the same clip recorded on hi8 but imported through a digital8 firewire. have you heard of anything like that?

please feel free to post links! and thank again!

mud

 

[codehack2]

<< i read that a 30 second analog clip can take up to 120 times longer to convert from avi to mpeg2, than the same clip recorded on hi8 but imported through a digital8 firewire >>



Not True. They will take the exact same time.. The only time your rendering time will be different is if the movies were recorded to Hard Disk with different Codecs. Don't be afraid of DV, it is the dominant format for a good reason.. it's got good compression, is easy/quick to edit, and renders back to tape will zero quality loss.

For a good primer on DV Editing, go to Video Guys and read a section that they have entitled DV Primer. Very good place to start. Great guys to order from too.

I'll post more links at a later time.. my wife is pulling me off the computer.. maybe tomorrow if I'm good

CH2

 

[mudtunnel]

<< it's got good compression, is easy/quick to edit >>



okay, professor , this is what i'm confused about. when you say &quot;easy/quick to edit&quot;, how is this so?

after reading the videoguys primer, i also (still) have a question about importing my analog recorded hi8 via digital8 firewire. since it's not recorded in dv format, does it still get the same kind of constant throughput (3600kb/s), compression (13GB/hr) at 720x480? or would this require special converter?

also, does dv &quot;capture&quot; require less cpu horsepower than analog capture? from the videoguys primer it sounds like it's independent of cpu. if so, dv would REALLY be the way to go for me.

thanks for the help, ch2. hopefully someone else will find this info useful, too!

mud

 

[sygyzy]

Codehack - You seem to be the man. I have a MiniDV camera and I want to do some editing on my PC. What is my best solution? I noticed Pinnacle and Dazzle both are leading the pack but they seem to be for different purposes. I need a firewire so I can transfer the video over right? So Studio DV? Well that settles that for $90. What is the Dazzle (~$300 stuff for then?)

 

[codehack2]

<< after reading the videoguys primer, i also (still) have a question about importing my analog recorded hi8 via digital8 firewire. since it's not recorded in dv format, does it still get the same kind of constant throughput (3600kb/s), compression (13GB/hr) at 720x480? or would this require special converter? >>



Okay Mudtunnel, I'll take yours first.. Lets look at 2 scenarios 1) You play your HI8 tape in a D8 Camera &amp; capture to your PC via firewire. 2)You play your HI8 Tape in your Hi8 deck and capture via the DV.Now AV's Analog inputs.

In scenario 1, the D8 camera takes that HI8/8 signal and compresses it with it's internal DV Codec before sending it out the firewire cable to the PC. Think of this a realtime compression/conversion. As far as your PC is concerned, it can not tell the difference between a standard Digital 8 movie captured via firewire, or a Hi8 movie converted by the camcorder and then captured via firewire. Frame size, bit rate, and sound rate are identical on both. Another thing to keep in mind.. when bringing movies on to your PC via firewire, the Movie has already been compressed in DV format prior to being on the PC. When you do a movie capture via firewire, it just that.. a serial capture, or a bit for bit serial transfer from one digital device (camera) to another (PC).

In scenario 2, the signal is coming out of the Hi8 deck in it's native analog format, and is being converted to a digital file via your capture device.. the DV.Now AV. The DV.Now AV is now acting as the DV Codec compresser that in scenario 1 took place on the DV camera. If you plan on working in a scenario like this and doing Analog to Digital conversions, make sure that the capture device that you are purchasing captures in standard DV format, which the DV.Now AV does.

Your turn sygyzy



<< Codehack - You seem to be the man. I have a MiniDV camera and I want to do some editing on my PC. What is my best solution? I noticed Pinnacle and Dazzle both are leading the pack but they seem to be for different purposes. I need a firewire so I can transfer the video over right? So Studio DV? Well that settles that for $90. What is the Dazzle (~$300 stuff for then?)
>>



If you have got a decent DV camera, you are half way home.. actually more than half, the capture device is cheap compared to the expense of the DV Camera.. Personally, I would go with the Pinnacle Studio DV.. It comes with an editing package that is really easy to get started in and is compatible with nearly all of the &quot;off the shelf&quot; DV editing packages, allowing you to scale up to a more robust editing package. When you outgrow the Pinnacle editing software, you might want to look at Adob Premier 6.0.. this is my personal prefernce.

Good Luck Guys!

CH2

 

[codehack2]

Mudtunnel,

FYI on the new Sony D8 Camera's.. A trip to Best Buy today revealed that not all of sony's latest D8 Cameras do 8/Hi8 to DV conversion.. These are the 30 series cameras.. the 130, 330, 530.. Based on this, I would recommend that if you are going to go D8 you get one of the models beign phased out.. the 20 series.. the 120, 320, 520, etc.. The 20 series have all of the features of the 30 series, plus the ability to do 8 to DV conversion.

As always do your homework before you buy.. I'd start at Sony's site.

CH2

 

[mudtunnel]

ch2,

i was looking for more info on d8 cameras and i came across another one of your posts with an ad for a sony at buydig.com. looks like this is the camera to go with, now to get the pricematch...

thanks for all your help! you rule! if you have any more advice, please PM me.

mud

 

[sygyzy]

codehack2 Thanks for the info. So the only thing that differs between Studio DV and Dazzle is the software? I have Premier so I am not that worried about software. I am interested in the hardware more. How come Dazzle has those nice breakout boxes. What are those for? I assume regular analog tape editing, right? I would imagine Dazzle would want to make a DV solution as well but they don't seem to have one. And their analog ones are really expensive. Why is that? Finally, once I edit my film, how do I get it on to a VHS or another medium so I can play it back for my friends and family?

 

[junthin]

A bump for this thread since I want to see sygyzy's question answered since I am in a smimilar position:



<< codehack2 Thanks for the info. So the only thing that differs between Studio DV and Dazzle is the software? I have Premier so I am not that worried about software. I am interested in the hardware more. How come Dazzle has those nice breakout boxes. What are those for? I assume regular analog tape editing, right? I would imagine Dazzle would want to make a DV solution as well but they don't seem to have one. And their analog ones are really expensive. Why is that? Finally, once I edit my film, how do I get it on to a VHS or another medium so I can play it back for my friends and family? >>



The only way that I came up with is to move the edited movie (on the PC in digital format) back onto the DV tape in the DV camcorder. The connect the DV camcorder to the VCR and hit the play button the DV camcorder and the record button on the VCR. Am I right in this process? Because that's the only thing my feeble mind can think of at this time.