Hi, Y'all!

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I'm about to turn 50. I've paid into SS since I had my first job at 15. I'm still one of those that wants to see it abolished.

SS is a government pyramid scheme and always will be. It depends on more and more people contributing to the system and we all know that there will come a point where that's no longer sustainable. The costs of Iraq, Afghanistan, and the bailouts absolutely pale in comparison to the economic wrath that entitlement programs will eventually wreak upon us.

You may say that it is a pyramid scheme, but as initially designed, contributions were going towards government backed annuities, which were used to pay out benefits at a later date. Roosevelt himself was very well-versed in the insurance and annuities market. Heck, prior to the passage of the Social Security Act, this was one of the arguments being had. SS benefits aren't entitlements, they are earned benefits that are paid into. It didn't necesarily have to by a pyramid scheme if those annuities were properly invested and properly utilized, instead of the SS taxes going into the general fund. Yes, it is screwed up, but to label it as purely a pyramid scheme seems disingenuous.

The way SS was intended to be is inconsequential because it does not function that way in the real world. It remains an entitlement program as well because what is payed into the program does not come close covering the outlay. People focus on the cost of the war in Iraq as if it's significant when government payouts for our entitlement programs during the same period completely overwhlem the monies spent on Iraq. And when spending on Iraq is long over and done with we'll still be facing ever increasing costs for SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I'm about to turn 50. I've paid into SS since I had my first job at 15. I'm still one of those that wants to see it abolished.

SS is a government pyramid scheme and always will be. It depends on more and more people contributing to the system and we all know that there will come a point where that's no longer sustainable. The costs of Iraq, Afghanistan, and the bailouts absolutely pale in comparison to the economic wrath that entitlement programs will eventually wreak upon us.

You may say that it is a pyramid scheme, but as initially designed, contributions were going towards government backed annuities, which were used to pay out benefits at a later date. Roosevelt himself was very well-versed in the insurance and annuities market. Heck, prior to the passage of the Social Security Act, this was one of the arguments being had. SS benefits aren't entitlements, they are earned benefits that are paid into. It didn't necesarily have to by a pyramid scheme if those annuities were properly invested and properly utilized, instead of the SS taxes going into the general fund. Yes, it is screwed up, but to label it as purely a pyramid scheme seems disingenuous.

The way SS was intended to be is inconsequential because it does not function that way in the real world. It remains an entitlement program as well because what is payed into the program does not come close covering the outlay. People focus on the cost of the war in Iraq as if it's significant when government payouts for our entitlement programs during the same period completely overwhlem the monies spent on Iraq. And when spending on Iraq is long over and done with we'll still be facing ever increasing costs for SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

And then there are people like me who see the errors of both. I agree with you about SS, but a $1 trillion is still a lot of money, and spent needlessly.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I'm about to turn 50. I've paid into SS since I had my first job at 15. I'm still one of those that wants to see it abolished.

SS is a government pyramid scheme and always will be. It depends on more and more people contributing to the system and we all know that there will come a point where that's no longer sustainable. The costs of Iraq, Afghanistan, and the bailouts absolutely pale in comparison to the economic wrath that entitlement programs will eventually wreak upon us.

You may say that it is a pyramid scheme, but as initially designed, contributions were going towards government backed annuities, which were used to pay out benefits at a later date. Roosevelt himself was very well-versed in the insurance and annuities market. Heck, prior to the passage of the Social Security Act, this was one of the arguments being had. SS benefits aren't entitlements, they are earned benefits that are paid into. It didn't necesarily have to by a pyramid scheme if those annuities were properly invested and properly utilized, instead of the SS taxes going into the general fund. Yes, it is screwed up, but to label it as purely a pyramid scheme seems disingenuous.

The way SS was intended to be is inconsequential because it does not function that way in the real world. It remains an entitlement program as well because what is payed into the program does not come close covering the outlay. People focus on the cost of the war in Iraq as if it's significant when government payouts for our entitlement programs during the same period completely overwhlem the monies spent on Iraq. And when spending on Iraq is long over and done with we'll still be facing ever increasing costs for SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

""Social Security"" is projected to run a surplus of $294 billion this year and is owed $3+ trillion. How simple it is for you to forget Al Gore's Lockbox ...

The Iraq War of Illegal Occupation was never 'on-budget' until this fiscal year. For the most part it was paid for with money ""borrowed"" from social security.

It must be sad to be you.

 

[DealMonkey]

It's true, the Social Security program has been running a surplus for a great many years now. It's what enables the spending whores in Washington to spend even more.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/assets.html

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I think HP's salient point here is that as individuals, there is very impact we can have on politics, and as common men (and women), the political elite have little regard for us. Given all of that, we'd probably be happier individuals to simply ignore all of the day-to-day nonsense that we're so keen to bicker about here and merely live our lives. I tend to agree.

What a tragedy is really is that even when you move in political circles, you are handcuffed if you don't get the motivation of the common man. Apathy though results in a small percentage, political elite and common man controlling the majority.

Happy, I'm happy and I still think about politics all the time, but beyond the frenzied way I use too, they are more just thought excersizes now since I've resolved myself to understand than for the most part, we are just along for the ride, even if we get to stear a little here and there. :beer:

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Evan

This, not so much. If you're happy working for a small business, the only pension you may have access to besides your own saving is the SS kind. So it's important.

if the .gov didn't steal that 15% from every american to give us a sh!tty return we'd all have more savings.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Evan

This, not so much. If you're happy working for a small business, the only pension you may have access to besides your own saving is the SS kind. So it's important.

if the .gov didn't steal that 15% from every american to give us a sh!tty return we'd all have more savings.

Pfft, they would have spent it on more Walmart trash, you know it and I know it

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I'm about to turn 50. I've paid into SS since I had my first job at 15. I'm still one of those that wants to see it abolished.

SS is a government pyramid scheme and always will be. It depends on more and more people contributing to the system and we all know that there will come a point where that's no longer sustainable. The costs of Iraq, Afghanistan, and the bailouts absolutely pale in comparison to the economic wrath that entitlement programs will eventually wreak upon us.

You may say that it is a pyramid scheme, but as initially designed, contributions were going towards government backed annuities, which were used to pay out benefits at a later date. Roosevelt himself was very well-versed in the insurance and annuities market. Heck, prior to the passage of the Social Security Act, this was one of the arguments being had. SS benefits aren't entitlements, they are earned benefits that are paid into. It didn't necesarily have to by a pyramid scheme if those annuities were properly invested and properly utilized, instead of the SS taxes going into the general fund. Yes, it is screwed up, but to label it as purely a pyramid scheme seems disingenuous.

The way SS was intended to be is inconsequential because it does not function that way in the real world. It remains an entitlement program as well because what is payed into the program does not come close covering the outlay. People focus on the cost of the war in Iraq as if it's significant when government payouts for our entitlement programs during the same period completely overwhlem the monies spent on Iraq. And when spending on Iraq is long over and done with we'll still be facing ever increasing costs for SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

""Social Security"" is projected to run a surplus of $294 billion this year and is owed $3+ trillion. How simple it is for you to forget Al Gore's Lockbox ...

The Iraq War of Illegal Occupation was never 'on-budget' until this fiscal year. For the most part it was paid for with money ""borrowed"" from social security.

It must be sad to be you.

Yeah, must be sad to be able to think. I know it saddens those who don't, can't, or won't bother to.

Look at it this way. What is being paid out vs. what the people who are receiving SS initially put into it?

When you point to those surplusses you are pointing to the pyramid scheme aspect of SS. As long as we have more people paying into SS to cover the outlay, we are OK. What happens when that changes though, and that time is coming? That's when the system crashes and burns.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

... What is being paid out vs. what the people who are receiving SS initially put into it?

When you point to those surplusses you are pointing to the pyramid scheme aspect of SS. As long as we have more people paying into SS to cover the outlay, we are OK. What happens when that changes though, and that time is coming? That's when the system crashes and burns.

Calling SS a pyramid scheme might be a touch too much. It's doing more now than it was designed to do in the 1930's (when life expectancy was barely 2 years after full eligibility) so I won't argue with you there. Most folks are living 13 years beyond what they were back then.

Raising the age eligibility, maybe a simple means-testing qualification (in exchange for those who happen to get bumped maybe it can cover all or part of a medicare premium) and stop looting the fund will go a long way to long-term solvency.

Projections I've seen show solvency over the next 75 years at a cost of less than 2% of GDP if serious changes are made. Cutting back the Part D Big Pharma Give-A-Way, eliminating Medicare Advantage and raising the age to 68 or more were the biggies IIRC - Part D being the surprisingly large component of it.

From 2000-2008 Social Security ran a surplus somewhere in the range of $1.431 trillion. Over the next 5 years it should run a surplus of $1.739 trillion. Not blowing that $$$ would help ...