Hi-Tech Gaming Mouse ? worth the money ?

[retrotech]

Hi all!

Me a gamer and a total nob when it comes to mouse!

Please tellme what does an Lazer mouse do ?
whats the deal with all that Dpi ?
What is 8bit data, 16 bit data etc. ?

How can these affect the gameplay?

Also, in some mouse there are side buttons to quickly change the Dpi when in game ? But what does all this do?

What are the pros with this kind of High-Precision device?

I am referring to mouse like the: Razer Diamondback, Razer copperhead etc.

 

[Cerb]

DPI: the effective number of dots per inch of movement. The higher the DPI, the better tracking. Over 800 DPI is 'effective', not actual. They actually use two sensors to track movement, using them together when possible, or using the one that is tracking best (as far as jumping, smoothing movement, and missing movement, this is actually superior to having a higher-DPI sensor).

data width: I think it has to do with the potential MP/s it is capable of, so you can set it to poll more often, getting smoother motion (pretty much a gaming-only feature).

Laser mice use a laser instead of standard LED, giving their sensors sharper images. However, they also still seem to have issues with gaps and jumping around (likely an issue of the tech needing some maturing).

Changing DPI is good because most games don't change angular sensitivity (the same amount of mouse movement gives you a 360º regardless of if you seem 10º or 90º) as you zoom in (Serious Sam and SS:Tribes games are a few that do). So, you swap to a lower sensitivity when you zoom in for more precise control. Ideally, all games would alter that sensitivity to match pixel sensitivity based on 90º FoV...but they don't.

The pros? You have never had a mouse track as good as these. Ever. I've used Logitech's, not Razer's. There is no jumpiness at all, they don't skip, and when lowering the sensitivity (pretty much a necessity), you get amazing control. Outside of gaming, these devices make trackballs (previously king for when you needed per-pixel precision) obsolete.

The cons? Well, I have a thread about that. If you grip the mouse and move your hand, rather than just your fingertips, there will be no cons.

 

[Cawchy87]

Just use whatever feels good to you. I made it to #1 with my team on teamwarfare using a 10 dollar mouse from dell. But I play with only my fingers so the small light mouse worked perfectly for me.

Personal preferance

 

[Eureka]

If you ask me... it's worth it to a point... you get smoother tracking and a better grip. But when it becomes insanely expensive, I think you've crossed the line.

Norm

 

[ubercaffeinated]

A better brush doesn't make a better painter.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: makoto00
A better brush doesn't make a better painter.

As with all such things I say:
Better tools will make an already talented person give better results.
They will not make up for a lack of talent.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

Originally posted by: makoto00
A better brush doesn't make a better painter.

/agree

 

[Azndude51]

Originally posted by: HybridSquirrel

Originally posted by: makoto00
A better brush doesn't make a better painter.

/agree

In many cases, this is not true. Going from an extremely crappy optical or ball mouse to a high end gaming mouse can make a HUGE difference. I had a crappy ball mouse back when I still played CS and I sucked horribly even when playing on my friends' good computer/mouse. Getting the MX510 allowed me to improve my skills and become a better player overall.

 

[Cerb]

...you didn't suck, though--you were severely bottlenecked, and had potential waiting to be used. When you can't aim right because your mouse skips or misses quick flicks of motion, or what seems like a dead on shot is several pixels off, you're not the problem: the device is. You won't instantly get better with a new mouse, but it will let you get much better than without it. It's like moving from IGP to a real video card--you just can't reach your potential at crappy detail and frame rates. Same thing for crappy mice.

Personally, I also have a feeling you didn't suck horribly in general, just for CS and people still playing. The average skill level over the years has drastically increased (as have the non-beginner difficulties in various single-player games), and older games typically have people playing who have been practicing for a long time. More casual gamers are going to get creamed and move on to another, newer, game, with more n00bs. Note that I'm one of those, now, because I just can't put in the hours required to get really good again (play some older FPS games at their highest difficulties, and notice how easy they tend to be).

To balance that, I will also say that how it feels makes a big difference, and as far as cheap mice go, the ones Dell has used have actually been very good (as cheap ones go), even the old ball mice; so it's not hard to believe Cawchy87. I ended up getting my current Logitech cheapo optical due to that (and that I went through 3 MS opticals, and became quite disenchanted with them , having come from a ball Dell OEM mouse just before those).

 

[ubercaffeinated]

Originally posted by: Azndude51

Originally posted by: HybridSquirrel

Originally posted by: makoto00
A better brush doesn't make a better painter.

/agree

In many cases, this is not true. Going from an extremely crappy optical or ball mouse to a high end gaming mouse can make a HUGE difference. I had a crappy ball mouse back when I still played CS and I sucked horribly even when playing on my friends' good computer/mouse. Getting the MX510 allowed me to improve my skills and become a better player overall.

Since we're telling personal stories: 7 years ago (god has it been that long) I started playing CS (gag) at 640x480 with a ball mouse. I ran everything on low and was forced to tweak out my game settings. It was relatively easy to learn how to get my ps/2 ball crap mouse to poll at higher Hzs so I could get smoother mousing. Even with all the tweaking I did to get the most juice out of my crap machine, the game chugged in certain places, and there was nothing I could do about it. But I didn't suck horribly. In fact I can say to some degree of certainty I was good. But that was back when I cared about epeen and everyone and their mother's played CS. It's easy to blame the mouse for crappy gaming, but in the end, it all boils down to the user.

These days I'm more able to afford "creature comforts" such as a decent videocard and a relatively nice mouse. Does it improve my game a whole lot? Not really. Everything looks nicer, and feels better, but these are comforts. Hey my computer doesn't chug any more atleast. Hah.

If the op is still looking for a nice gaming grade mouse, look up the logitech G5. It's pretty darn nice.

 

[Eureka]

Well, I don't know about you, but I started gaming using a very basic IBM optical mouse, this one actually:
http://www.ergodirect.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=308

And that was back when I was clanning with DoD, and everyone constantly called me a hacker. Nowadays, I have a MX510, and I never do as good as I originally did. Which is why mice are insignificant.

Norm

 

[retrotech]

Originally posted by: Cerb
DPI: the effective number of dots per inch of movement. The higher the DPI, the better tracking. Over 800 DPI is 'effective', not actual. They actually use two sensors to track movement, using them together when possible, or using the one that is tracking best (as far as jumping, smoothing movement, and missing movement, this is actually superior to having a higher-DPI sensor).

data width: I think it has to do with the potential MP/s it is capable of, so you can set it to poll more often, getting smoother motion (pretty much a gaming-only feature).

Laser mice use a laser instead of standard LED, giving their sensors sharper images. However, they also still seem to have issues with gaps and jumping around (likely an issue of the tech needing some maturing).

Changing DPI is good because most games don't change angular sensitivity (the same amount of mouse movement gives you a 360º regardless of if you seem 10º or 90º) as you zoom in (Serious Sam and SS:Tribes games are a few that do). So, you swap to a lower sensitivity when you zoom in for more precise control. Ideally, all games would alter that sensitivity to match pixel sensitivity based on 90º FoV...but they don't.

The pros? You have never had a mouse track as good as these. Ever. I've used Logitech's, not Razer's. There is no jumpiness at all, they don't skip, and when lowering the sensitivity (pretty much a necessity), you get amazing control. Outside of gaming, these devices make trackballs (previously king for when you needed per-pixel precision) obsolete.

The cons? Well, I have a thread about that. If you grip the mouse and move your hand, rather than just your fingertips, there will be no cons.

Thanks cerb for that great info.,
CheeRS

 

[tuteja1986]

anyways retrotech :! i recommend you either buy a MX518 or G5 or G7 best gaming mouse. i personally like the G7 ... look at my Signature

its wireless but don't let that fool you into thinking its not a gaming mouse because it is and its an very good wireless mouse.

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-22472-2675-28-30-x >> review for G7

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-22471-2523-28-30-x >>> review for G5

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-16167-1699-28-30-x >>> review for mx518

 

[darbius]

Basically, a gaming mouse gives you a variety of abilities that you would not be able to get with a traditional mouse. Most of these applications are best applied in First Person Shooter games like Unreal, Quake, Counterstrike, etc. I don't actually play they games a whole lot (play Tribes sometimes and I had a quick stint with UT '04), but I did the research to answer this exact question that you're asking not too long ago.

A Razer or the equivalent Logitech gaming mouse (can't remember the name) provide features like:

Feature: Multiple mouse sensitivity "profiles"
Use: This is helpful if you play first person shooters, but also play other games or use desktop apps that would require different sensitivities, as you would be able to flop between them with the click of a button instead of having to fine-tune every time. Some people also like this for FPS's because it gives them the ability to keep high sensitivity for most of the game, but drop it down to very low sensitivity for delicate headshots, etc. Another possible application would be Photoshop where you could knock the sensitivity way down for very fine tuning and then kick it back up for normal functions with the press of a button. Keep in mind it's all configurable.

Feature: Different Sensitivities for the X and Y axis
Use: Again with the FPS, this is useful because when you play shooters you want high sensitivity for your horizontal movements (quick turns/looking), but lower sensitivity for vertical movement (you naturally move up and down less in an FPS than you do from side to side).

Feature: Disgustingly accurate mouse movements
Use: This is perhaps the key function of the mouse that goes beyond first-person shooter applications. These things are so accurate you'll never be able to use a regular laser mouse again once you get used to it. Like someone said earlier, your mouse will never jump and will always go exactly where you tell it to go, when you tell it to go there. The main question here is do you want to pay $95 for a mouse.

The Verdict: I'm not going to make the verdict for you, but I'll tell you what I decided. I don't really play first person shooters nor do I really play other games that require a high level of precision. I mainly play World of Warcraft and some RTS games, so for my purposes and regular laser mouse is quite accurate and sufficient. However, if I started getting addicted to UT '04, or Quake, Half-life or any of those, I would probably pick up one of these gaming mouses as soon as possible.

In the end the decision is up to you, but at least you have a little more knowledge to help you make that decision.

 

[retrotech]

Thanks Darbius for patiently explaining all the different apects and though i had already read tht reviews tuteja1986, still thanks for that link.

 

[cougar78]

I can tell you that I used an AOpen optical mouse that worked ok but I started having a lot of issues with the mouse jumping all over the screen at times and slow response. I upgraded to a MX1000 and I can a big difference.

Worst you can do is pick wisely, make sure to go to a tech store like BestBuy or Circuit City to get a feel for the mouse in your hand to make sure it's comfortable. I won't pay over 50 bucks but that's just me. I bought that MX1000 used for 40 bucks.

 

[jitspoe]

Well, I just recently went all out and got the Razer Copperhead. I was going to go with something cheaper, and my friend convinced me otherwise. The way he put it: a mouse for your computer is like tires for your car.

Here's where a high-DPI mouse comes into play in games: If you're like me, you want to be able to turn around quickly without having to pick your mouse up off of the pad. Problem is, when you need precision (ie: trying to shoot that guy who's just a couple pixels tall), you can't aim for crap.

You'll be to the left of him:
+*
then move your mouse slightly and be to the right of him...
*+

(* = person, + = crosshair)

Never can quite get it on him... then you're dead.

The other option is to turn your sensitivity down, but then you end up having to pick your mouse up all the time to recenter it, and you have to make large movements with your hand, which can confuse the mouse if you do it too quickly.

So, you get a nice, high-precision mouse, and then you can set your sensitivity down to have that precision, yet still be able to spin around with the flick of the wrist. It's nice. If you're going to go all out and get an expensive gaming mouse, you should get a good pad to go with it -- one with a slick surface designed for optical mice.

Oh, the other thing high-precision mice let you do is disable acceleration in windows. This takes some getting used to, but in the end, you'll find being able to turn the same number of degrees consistently, regardless of what your framerate is or how fast you move the mouse, helps a lot in games.

Well, I've mostly just rambled. I just got the mouse, so I can't say too much about it, but I'm going to a big lan party this weekend, so we'll see how it fares. The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that a mouse is just as critical as any other component when it comes to gaming.

No, it won't magically make you a better gamer, just like getting a beefy new machine won't magically improve your skills, but it can give you enough of an edge to beat somebody at the same skill level as you.

Oh, I'll just throw out a couple more things about the copperhead I like: The settings are stored in the mouse itself, not in the drivers. You can set the buttons to be anything, even short macros. For example, I bound a macro that types "Hello" to one of the buttons, then unplugged the mouse and plugged it into another machine that had never seen the mouse nor did it have the drivers installed and I pressed the button and it typed "Hello." As far as I can tell, once you get the settings the way you like, there's no need to have the drivers even installed.

 

[retrotech]

Originally posted by: jitspoe
Well, I just recently went all out and got the Razer Copperhead. I was going to go with something cheaper, and my friend convinced me otherwise. The way he put it: a mouse for your computer is like tires for your car.

Here's where a high-DPI mouse comes into play in games: If you're like me, you want to be able to turn around quickly without having to pick your mouse up off of the pad. Problem is, when you need precision (ie: trying to shoot that guy who's just a couple pixels tall), you can't aim for crap.

You'll be to the left of him:
+*
then move your mouse slightly and be to the right of him...
*+

(* = person, + = crosshair)

Never can quite get it on him... then you're dead.

The other option is to turn your sensitivity down, but then you end up having to pick your mouse up all the time to recenter it, and you have to make large movements with your hand, which can confuse the mouse if you do it too quickly.

So, you get a nice, high-precision mouse, and then you can set your sensitivity down to have that precision, yet still be able to spin around with the flick of the wrist. It's nice. If you're going to go all out and get an expensive gaming mouse, you should get a good pad to go with it -- one with a slick surface designed for optical mice.

Oh, the other thing high-precision mice let you do is disable acceleration in windows. This takes some getting used to, but in the end, you'll find being able to turn the same number of degrees consistently, regardless of what your framerate is or how fast you move the mouse, helps a lot in games.

Well, I've mostly just rambled. I just got the mouse, so I can't say too much about it, but I'm going to a big lan party this weekend, so we'll see how it fares. The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that a mouse is just as critical as any other component when it comes to gaming.

No, it won't magically make you a better gamer, just like getting a beefy new machine won't magically improve your skills, but it can give you enough of an edge to beat somebody at the same skill level as you.

Oh, I'll just throw out a couple more things about the copperhead I like: The settings are stored in the mouse itself, not in the drivers. You can set the buttons to be anything, even short macros. For example, I bound a macro that types "Hello" to one of the buttons, then unplugged the mouse and plugged it into another machine that had never seen the mouse nor did it have the drivers installed and I pressed the button and it typed "Hello." As far as I can tell, once you get the settings the way you like, there's no need to have the drivers even installed.

Thanks for your opinion but now i am in the Logitech bandwagon!
I have shortlisted Copperhead, MX518 & G5 - and most probably i am going with the G5.