Question Hi Silicon (Huawei) Proccesor and SoC thread

[DZero]

And... it happened. Huawei released another 8000 series processor and is now full custom.

Oh boy...



Kirin 8020 is official. And interesting enough... All are Taishan cores
- 1 Big Taishan @ 2.28 Ghz (2 threads)
- 3 Mid Taishan @ 2.05 Ghz (6 Threads)
- 4 Little Taishan @ 1.30 Ghz (no HT)


No info for now about the GPU, is likely to be a Maleoon GPU. And no info about the performance, expecting to be on par with SD 865, which with optimizations might end into Vanilla 8 Gen 1 territory.

 

[Panino Manino]

Because of the weaker hardware Huawei needs to compensate in the software.
Good performance improvement on EXT4: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.17-EXT4

EXT4 Shows Wild Gains With Better Block Allocation Scalability In Linux 6.17​

Baokun Li of Huawei has been pursuing better scalability of the EXT4 block allocation code. With Linux servers continuing to have more CPU cores and more containers being loaded on each server, Huawei began noticing scalability issues within the EXT4 file-system driver code. Profiling showed that there was significant contention within EXT4's block allocation/free code path leading to significant performance hits when running many containers atop an EXT4 file-system.

But with a set of 18 patches and after going through three rounds of review, the scalability enhancements to the EXT4 block allocation code are now in Linux 6.17. Simply put, the fallocate operations per container per second are able to come up significantly when looking at the upper percentiles:

 

[Doug S]

Because of the weaker hardware Huawei needs to compensate in the software.
Good performance improvement on EXT4: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.17-EXT4

Ah man, I ran into this issue on a gig about 10 years ago! Client was using a fully loaded all flash EMC Symmetrix that cost $insanity but performance of a critical component was limited by exactly this issue in ext4. I created a benchmark to demonstrate the problem and sent to it RedHat, but they couldn't reproduce it because they didn't have anything that could handle that amount of I/O (this was before IBM bought them)

After some back and forth with them with it turned out they DID have access to a server with 2 TB of RAM, so after some tweaking on my end to shrink the space requirement they were able to reproduce the issue using a 1.8 TB ext4 on ramfs lol! The client couldn't wait on a fix (though I'm sure they weren't expecting they'd have to wait a decade) so they ended up having to make some fairly major changes to how their application functioned to work around it. And before someone suggests xfs, the reason we were using ext4 was because we'd already run into OTHER problems on xfs...

 

[yuri69]

Because of the weaker hardware Huawei needs to compensate in the software.

Intel as one of the largest Kernel contributors: because Intel hardware has been weak during those post-Conroe years, they needed to compensate in the software!

 

[DZero]

Interesting enough... seems that Harmony OS Next is doing miracles in the Kirin 8020 which is an underclocked 9020.

HiSilicon Kirin 8020: specs and benchmarks

HiSilicon Kirin 8020: performance tests in benchmarks (AnTuTu 10, GeekBench 6). Battery life and full specifications.

nanoreview.net

Huwi_hype HiSilicon Kirin 8020 result | NR

nanoreview.net

Literally on the tier of the Dimensity 8300. So Kirin 9020 could enter on the realm of the 8400. So they are not that far after all.



That made me think... since Huawei is producing more and more Kirins 9020 and 8020, is time to see a 7020 with the defective 8020 with lower scores for the entry devices? With that they can end the Kirin 710, close the direct ARM royalties and only pay for the ARM uArch for the custom ones.

Because of the weaker hardware Huawei needs to compensate in the software.
Good performance improvement on EXT4: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.17-EXT4

With the previous post I made, you are right, they can go full SW to compensate the lack of hardware. And Harmony OS Next is a clear proof of that.

 

[Panino Manino]

Interesting enough... seems that Harmony OS Next is doing miracles in the Kirin 8020 which is an underclocked 9020.

Everyone noticed when they released the Pura 80 Ultra with Android, benchmark numbers were horrendous. No improvement or lower numbers than the Pura 70 Ultra.

It goes to show again the advantages of paring hardware and software (except for Google with it's mediocre Tensor).

 

[DZero]

Everyone noticed when they released the Pura 80 Ultra with Android, benchmark numbers were horrendous. No improvement or lower numbers than the Pura 70 Ultra.

It goes to show again the advantages of paring hardware and software (except for Google with it's mediocre Tensor).

Indeed, seems that EMUI OS is done for and Harmony OS is the way to go.

Meanwhile:

Huawei Mate 80’s Kirin 9030 to bring new breakthroughs in performance

Huawei has made a dynamic move at the Mate XTs tri-fold launch event by officially announcing the Kirin 9020 chip. And this step suggests that the upcoming Kirin 9030 chipset for the Huawei Mate 80 will unlock breakthroughs in performance. Weibo leaker @DigitalChatStation has dropped some...

www.huaweicentral.com

If Huawei manages to defeat Tensor G5 from Google it will be a MASSIVE win for them, and a dissaster for Google since has all the tools, but didn't managed to make a decent chip.

 

[DZero]

Well. On a pack of news...
Huawei will try to revive the Mate 70

Huawei Mate 70 Premium Edition can use this optimized Kirin chip

Huawei Mate 70 Premium Edition is expected to debut this month, and its chip details have now started emerging on the internet. And this processor is seemingly different from the previous Kirin chipset versions. Let’s check the info on this new chip. SuperDimensional has shared some details on...

www.huaweicentral.com

And might use a Kirin 9020A... remember the Kirin 8000A?
I fear that the chip will have less cores... again.

On other news

Huawei Nova Flip S chip details leaked, revealing key upgrades

Huawei Nova Flip S chip is becoming a buzz in the market. The company has used a mid-range Kirin 8 series processor for the previous-gen model. And it may continue this move with the upcoming pocket-friendly vertical foldable smartphone. The new foldable recently appeared at a certification...

www.huaweicentral.com

There are rumours that the Kirin 8030 will debut if the chip is NOT the 8020. And remember, Kirin 8030 is likely to be the Kirin 9030 underclocked.
I guess, is time to introduce "Lite" phones (like the Mate or P series) with the 8020 processor? That thing is on par with Dimensity 8200 on Harmony OS and Dimensity 8020 with the EMUI.

And finally

Confirmed! Three Huawei Mate 80 models listed on 3C, launch imminent?

Huawei Mate 80 series models were rumored to enter the 3C certification database. But a new leak has confirmed that the flagship models have received their first approval. At the same time, this info points out an imminent release of the new lineup. A few days ago, DigitalChatStation said Huawei...

www.huaweicentral.com

There are 3 Huawei Mate models and the vanilla has a different model:
- Vanilla with Kirin 9020
- Pro with Kirin 9030
- Pro Plus with Kirin 9030

 

[DZero]

And well... the Flip S didn't come with Kirin 8030, but just with 8020

Huawei Nova Flip S coming soon with familiar look and improved chip

Amid the hustle of the Mate 80 series launch preparations, Huawei is also working on its mid-range foldable – the Nova Flip S, which will debut with a familiar look but hold an improved chip. The device is almost ready to set foot on the release stage. FixedFocus noted that the Huawei Nova Flip...

www.huaweicentral.com

 

[DZero]

And well...
There are the SoC leaks of the Kirin 9030 on the Mate 80 Pro Max

Huawei Mate 80 Pro Max: specs, benchmarks, and user reviews

Huawei Mate 80 Pro Max – full specifications, battery, camera, display, and performance tests. User and expert reviews.

nanoreview.net

View attachment 134459That made me say... How Google had to screw up very hard with the Tensor G5 to the point that a"7nm" Kirin 9030 matches them?

That might be a clear lesson on how to NOT to make bad desicions when making a processor.

And need to recognize how Huawei managed to pull something decent despite everything.

EDIT: NEW INFO!

Differences between Kirin 9030 and 9030 Pro seems that the latter has 2 more threads, but aparently is because 1 core is deactivated on the 9030.

Kirin 9030 vs Kirin 9030 Pro: Major differences between new chips

Huawei launched Mate 80 and Mate X7 smartphones but something that’s getting more buzz in the market over these creations is the Kirin 9030/Pro chips and their differences. Finally, a new input has shed light on this topic, solving the mystery. Every year, Huawei releases new Mate smartphones...

www.huaweicentral.com

 

[pavlecom]

Highlights:

Nice AnTuTu score of Kirin 9030 Pro, 1,75 mil .. around iPhone 16 pro max 3nm! .. a bravura! ✔

More Info on Blog:
New Kirin 9030 Pro - AnTuTu Score | & Expertise |


[Appendix]

A Walky-Talky built in, works on a 2,4GHz in radius of 5 Km, and 700MHz radius 10 Km (can message too) .. so good feature!
Fully complete stay-connected phone: 5.5G, Sat, 2,4GHz, 700MHz, remarkable as is, like its world 1st 8000 nits brightness! 🏆

 

[DZero]

Take this as a grain of salt, but... there are videos showing estimations of the Kirin 9030 Pro

The core config goes like that. Aparently seeing how the scores went, seems that CPU uARCH are the same used for the Kirin 9020. But GPU is a new one with more cores.

Yeah, the graphics are just a stimate, but heck, going near Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 tier with that process, is doable.


Got improved by 11% ST and 23% Multi thread


Using 3DMark shows some stimations, it defeats the Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1 and is near Snapdragon 8s Gen 3 tier. This is now a big deal. Since even if we cut 2 cores, it beats Kirin 9020 GPU.



Power comsumption wise shows that is on par with Snapdragon 8s Gen 3 at least CPU wise



GPU wise is still an issue, Huawei relies a LOT on optimization


This is the performance in Genshin, it already goes at near 60 FPS with less than 4W. Considering that Apple manages similar numbers but with 120 FPS shows how a need of stronger GPU is shown from Huawei.



Let's see if Geekerwan or western reviewers squeeze more of the processor.

 

[DZero]

This is interesting. Huawei is returning into the 1 million sales tier in less than a month.

Huawei Mate 80 series is a hit with 1.2 million unit sales in 23 days

Huawei Mate 80 series is a real hit in the market, as the flagship has now shipped over 1.2 million units in sales within a month! That shows the lineup is a true smartphone craze among consumers despite odd factors like a tight supply chain. Since the company has fallen into the US ban, it […]

www.huaweicentral.com

For a high tier phone this is interesting to reach that ammount in short time.

 

[soresu]

This is interesting. Huawei is returning into the 1 million sales tier in less than a month.

Huawei Mate 80 series is a hit with 1.2 million unit sales in 23 days

Huawei Mate 80 series is a real hit in the market, as the flagship has now shipped over 1.2 million units in sales within a month! That shows the lineup is a true smartphone craze among consumers despite odd factors like a tight supply chain. Since the company has fallen into the US ban, it […]

www.huaweicentral.com

For a high tier phone this is interesting to reach that ammount in short time.

Ehh.....

Impressive for a western brand or Samsung sure.

But that's still only about 0.1% of the potential domestic market which is Huawei's key demographic since US sanctions kneecapped their global reach.

 

[soresu]

It will be interesting to see what happens if their EUV claims actually prove real with non catastrophic yields, and what that might mean for them rejoining the global market.

 

[DZero]

Ehh.....

Impressive for a western brand or Samsung sure.

But that's still only about 0.1% of the potential domestic market which is Huawei's key demographic since US sanctions kneecapped their global reach.

Indeed, but considering that, is not bad, and remember, is pending to see how will fare globally.

It will be interesting to see what happens if their EUV claims actually prove real with non catastrophic yields, and what that might mean for them rejoining the global market.

Indeed, I kinda expect maintain the 5nm EUV with 65% yield rate, but the performance would be pretty much 10% better than the previous gen, but still, I expect a Tock from Huawei with the 5nm DUV, like a last song from them.

 

[soresu]

Indeed, but considering that, is not bad, and remember, is pending to see how will fare globally.

I am rooting for them.

Without them to keep Samsung and Apple somewhat modest the prices for hi end phones have just become insane.

I'm not going to fork out that much money for a new phone ever.

Maybe for a 3.5-4K per eye VR headset, or a full PC upgrade/rebuild (once DRAM prices lower enough to make that viable again).

But not for a phone - just nuh uh.

tbh I think it was probably Samsung, Qualcomm and Apple that lobbied the US govmt to put sanctions on Huawei and HiSilicon - they were competing too well and not charging the moon for it.

 

[Doug S]

I am rooting for them.

Without them to keep Samsung and Apple somewhat modest the prices for hi end phones have just become insane.

I don't follow Samsung but if you look at when Apple first introduced the base / Pro / Pro Max modern lineup in 2019 the prices have increased only $100 for each model in 2025. That's below total inflation from 2019 to 2025 (inflation calculator says $1 then is $1.27 now)

 

[DZero]

I don't follow Samsung but if you look at when Apple first introduced the base / Pro / Pro Max modern lineup in 2019 the prices have increased only $100 for each model in 2025. That's below total inflation from 2019 to 2025 (inflation calculator says $1 then is $1.27 now)

Isn't that too much inflation in that short time? That's how the dollar inflated in 10 years from 2000 to 2010!

 

[soresu]

Isn't that too much inflation in that short time? That's how the dollar inflated in 10 years from 2000 to 2010!

COVID and the ensuing supply chain disruption kicked off a lot of inflation.

 

[Doug S]

COVID and the ensuing supply chain disruption kicked off a lot of inflation.

And most of the world saw even worse inflation during that period, it for sure wasn't a US only phenomena. I don't know how much Apple's pricing has changed in terms of other currencies like euro or yuan, or how other major phone OEMs like Samsung have adjusted their pricing over that time.

Between SoCs getting more expensive over time as TSMC per wafer prices increase, smartphones using more NAND/DRAM in base configs, the addition of more/better cameras, and so forth there have been a lot of technological improvements over that period fighting against the tech world's constant price deflation (for identical specs) we've enjoyed thanks to Moore's Law for decades.

 

[DZero]

Rememner that the thread is NOT only about mobile phones...

Orange Pi: New SBC or mini PC with up to 96GB RAM runs circles around Raspberry Pi 5 with 176 TOPS

Orange Pi has introduced the so-called AI Station, which is a new single-board computer that can even be used as a base for a mini PC. This device can run various AI applications locally and can be hooked up to external sensors as well as actuators.

www.notebookcheck.net

Now Huawei is entering on the SBC market.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Rememner that the thread is NOT only about mobile phones...

Orange Pi: New SBC or mini PC with up to 96GB RAM runs circles around Raspberry Pi 5 with 176 TOPS

Orange Pi has introduced the so-called AI Station, which is a new single-board computer that can even be used as a base for a mini PC. This device can run various AI applications locally and can be hooked up to external sensors as well as actuators.

www.notebookcheck.net

Now Huawei is entering on the SBC market.

Hmm where are they sourcing so much DRAM for their SBCs?

 

[DZero]

Hmm where are they sourcing so much DRAM for their SBCs?

China has their own RAM fabs. RAM does not need cutting edge tech to be made, it can be made even with 14nm in the DDR4 and DDR5 (low tier in this case) variants.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ddr4/top-chinese-memory-maker-expected-to-abandon-ddr4-manufacturing-at-the-behest-of-beijing

They were fabbing DDR4 and move to DDR5, but with this issue, I don't be surprised if the government said to maintain the production and also focus on DDR5.