Hey President Obama, how about kicking your own behind?

[CLite]

Anyone berating Obama for this is a moron, is he supposed to put on a cape and fly down and squeeze the pipes closed himself?

This problem needs to be solved by engineers not government panels. Additionally the president shouldn't take action against the company until an independent panel of technical experts comes to a conclusion regarding blame. I personally enjoy throwing BP through the ringer and I'm 99% it was their fault but it would be irresponsible to take steps such as freezing assets until an independent ruling has been made. About the only thing I hated regarding the 60 minutes interview was that 2-bit unprofessional government investigator who had the gall to blame BP without having seen all the facts, I was thinking at the time he should of been fired on the spot from the panel.

 

[nageov3t]

The more I read about conservatives criticizing Obama's response to the oil crisis, the more I suspect they really did think he was the Messiah. This whole time I thought it was just a lame attempt at humor. Gosh darn, why didn't he just go to New Orleans and part the sea!?

what do you think when you read about liberals criticizing Obama's response to the oil crisis?

 

[Fern]

-snip-
What else can he possibly do, besides hope like everyone else something works to stop the oil spill?

You've asked this question several times. In watching this unfold over several weeks some things come to mind:

1. I've seen numerous reports where the government has been slow to provide, or roll out, necessary equipment like booms. From what I've heard on news reports 'red tape' has significantly slowed things up. He could fix that.

2. I saw where BP went out hired some folks off the street, supplied them with uniforms and equip and sent trhem to help with clean-up. However, the fishermen etc from that area, who know it well, were left to idle. IMO, those fishermen etc, since they could no longer fish etc, should have been hired to deploy booms and perform cleanup. For one thing they're unemployed now and need the money, for another they are much more familiar with the area than anybody else. Obama could have pressured BP (or used gov emergency funds) to employ the locals in the cleanup effort.

3. Once the severity of the spill became apparent, instead of relying on BP to fix it (and having Obama admin offciials run around making unhelpful polical statments like "keeping our boots to their neck"), I think it would have been helpful to setup a command structure in the White House to coordinate responce teams and scientists/engineers to work together in a coordinated effort to plug the thing.

There are other companies with engineers, there are other countries with experience and engineers, there are universities etc. The WH should gather info from BP on the spill etc and provide to these groups after forming them. They should then solicite their suggestions/input etc. This WH group could coordinate everyones' responce and feed back to BP.

I have problems understanding why we can't fabricate a part with a new valve to drop down over the existing open pipe and then proceed to shut off. No doubt the design and fabrication would require expertise, possibly some from outside the oil drilling field, but we have tons of expertise in our defense contractor industry and others from around the world.

The gov has the ability to marshal great amounts of resources, that's really one it's core functions/benefits, much moreso than any single company or state gov. I would have expected this type of organizing, team biulding and concensus building to be a natural for Obama given his background as a 'community organizer'. Sadly, I don't think we've seen much, if any, organizing of the oil drilling or scientific 'community'.

Just 'yelling' at BP and giving speeches is disappointing.

Fern

 

[MrEgo]

Fern, how certain are you that these things were not already done/thought of?

Maybe it's just me, but nothing in that list makes me think "yeah, Obama really dropped the ball there".

 

[tk149]

Anyone berating Obama for this is a moron, is he supposed to put on a cape and fly down and squeeze the pipes closed himself?

He IS the Messiah, is he not?

Sorry, I couldn't resist, and this forum needs a little humor now and then.

 

[Fern]

Fern, how certain are you that these things were not already done/thought of?

Maybe it's just me, but nothing in that list makes me think "yeah, Obama really dropped the ball there".

I've heard too many complaints of red tape for booms etc., nor have the obama admin denied those complaints.

I haven't heard the admin remark about any of the other stuff I posted. While I can't certify that they haven't, I don't believe their White House communication group would overlook a chance to mention it. Likewise for Obama himself, who's spoken on the issue several times. As far as not involving the locals, I can't believe they'd (locals) lie about that.

"Drop the ball"?

I don't think they ever picked it up as far as stopping the leak. Looks mostly to me like they're leaning on BP. I don't think anyone can fairly argue they've been proactive at all in stopping the leak, but I think that's what's needed.

Throughout this ordeal, every cable news channel has had one type or another 'expert' talking about the issue. None have every stated or implied that they've been contacted for input by anyone, much less a WH led coalition organizing expertise for help with the situation.

Fern

 

[mizzou]

why are we telling obama to be acting the fool?

 

[classy]

You've asked this question several times. In watching this unfold over several weeks some things come to mind:

1. I've seen numerous reports where the government has been slow to provide, or roll out, necessary equipment like booms. From what I've heard on news reports 'red tape' has significantly slowed things up. He could fix that.

2. I saw where BP went out hired some folks off the street, supplied them with uniforms and equip and sent trhem to help with clean-up. However, the fishermen etc from that area, who know it well, were left to idle. IMO, those fishermen etc, since they could no longer fish etc, should have been hired to deploy booms and perform cleanup. For one thing they're unemployed now and need the money, for another they are much more familiar with the area than anybody else. Obama could have pressured BP (or used gov emergency funds) to employ the locals in the cleanup effort.

3. Once the severity of the spill became apparent, instead of relying on BP to fix it (and having Obama admin offciials run around making unhelpful polical statments like "keeping our boots to their neck"), I think it would have been helpful to setup a command structure in the White House to coordinate responce teams and scientists/engineers to work together in a coordinated effort to plug the thing.

There are other companies with engineers, there are other countries with experience and engineers, there are universities etc. The WH should gather info from BP on the spill etc and provide to these groups after forming them. They should then solicite their suggestions/input etc. This WH group could coordinate everyones' responce and feed back to BP.

I have problems understanding why we can't fabricate a part with a new valve to drop down over the existing open pipe and then proceed to shut off. No doubt the design and fabrication would require expertise, possibly some from outside the oil drilling field, but we have tons of expertise in our defense contractor industry and others from around the world.

The gov has the ability to marshal great amounts of resources, that's really one it's core functions/benefits, much moreso than any single company or state gov. I would have expected this type of organizing, team biulding and concensus building to be a natural for Obama given his background as a 'community organizer'. Sadly, I don't think we've seen much, if any, organizing of the oil drilling or scientific 'community'.

Just 'yelling' at BP and giving speeches is disappointing.

Fern

Fern I have no idea why you came up with half of this stuff. Whatever news source you are reading, switch to a new one. Because everything you said except for the command center has been done. As far as the misdeeds of BP you mention, you can't have it both ways. You can't get all flip with the critism of Obama and the administration for openly criticizing BP, then in the same breath want them to pressure BP. You're reaching

 

[dali71]

They are so jealous especially since they miss their hero Bush so much.

You mean the guy you voted for...TWICE?

 

[chowderhead]

I've heard too many complaints of red tape for booms etc., nor have the obama admin denied those complaints.

I haven't heard the admin remark about any of the other stuff I posted. While I can't certify that they haven't, I don't believe their White House communication group would overlook a chance to mention it. Likewise for Obama himself, who's spoken on the issue several times. As far as not involving the locals, I can't believe they'd (locals) lie about that.

"Drop the ball"?

I don't think they ever picked it up as far as stopping the leak. Looks mostly to me like they're leaning on BP. I don't think anyone can fairly argue they've been proactive at all in stopping the leak, but I think that's what's needed.

Throughout this ordeal, every cable news channel has had one type or another 'expert' talking about the issue. None have every stated or implied that they've been contacted for input by anyone, much less a WH led coalition organizing expertise for help with the situation.

Fern

Obama and his administration have completely dropped the ball and initially acquiesced to BP because the federal government does not have the technical or equipment resources to handle this type of disaster. There were too many people giving different stories and no one was in charge of the disaster until they settled on Thad Allen. Obama has a detached, hands off and aloof IMO managerial style. He delegated this just like so many other things such as health care reform which then languishes. I would argue that it was only after Rep. Ed Markey posted the live feeds of the oil gushing out into the water in late May nearly 1 month after the oil spill that there was any sense of urgency by this administration. They knew the public was outraged and their dropping poll numbers kicked them into a higher gear. Meanwhile a month went by while they basically went along with what BP wanted. Obama dropped the ball and he has no one to blame but himself.

 

[flavio]

First the news conference where he mentions his daughter and now this, I was never his fan but i gotta tell you... this guy has set up benchmarks for lows in presidency that wont be broken for decades or even centuries

He's been a massive improvement over Bush and has been doing a decent job overall, but then again anyone would be an improvement over Bush. I don't know that Bush's low benchmarks will ever be equaled.

Bush probably would have just invaded Iraq in response to the oil spill.

 

[NoWhereM]

You mean we need more govement involvement in private enterprise?? I wish you guys would make up your minds.

You mean you want the goverment to stop responding to disasters like the gulf oil spill and Katrina? I wish you guys would make up your minds.

 

[flavio]

You mean you want the goverment to stop responding to disasters like the gulf oil spill and Katrina? I wish you guys would make up your minds.

Private enterprise caused Katrina?

 

[NoWhereM]

Private enterprise caused Katrina?

Apparently you're still at stage three. As such I should let you know I'm not upset by your comment, I understand it's the best you can do.

 

[aphex]

 

[nageov3t]

yes we can :awe:

you know, unless we just blame Bush instead and vote present. :hmm:

 

[Nemesis 1]

A fair shot? When? You have an avatar mocking Obama. And as for the oil mess, BP has failed to fix it, not the government. Now it has become a bigger problem. And here are the facts

Obama went to the site when this first started.
He has been there 4-5 times.
He openly criticized BP in the beginning and all the right did was use it as an attack point.
He has more than once said he will do whatever is necesssary to make BP pay. Here is the kicker, unless they are held criminally responsible, their liabaility is capped at 75 million. What has OB done? Opened an investigation for criminal charges against BP.
He has sent resources from engineers, workers, and anything else to help BP.

What else can he possibly do, besides hope like everyone else something works to stop the oil spill?
He has banned any further deep water drilling as well.

The guy has done his job. Now its time for all these geniuses to find an answer.

Your painting a pretty picture for obama . but your list of facts and timing is pure BS. All of the nigerians movements sense the claimed accident have been documented.

 

[flavio]

Apparently you're still at stage three. As such I should let you know I'm not upset by your comment, I understand it's the best you can do.

I see bitching about Obama is probably all you have whether it contradicts the standard con mantra of leaving business alone or not.

Or libertarians probably think the market will fix this.

I think we should do everything we can to fix it and keep it from happening again. Obviously that means fixing the Bush/Cheney deregulation that leads to these types of disasters.

 

[NoWhereM]

I see bitching about Obama is probably all you have whether it contradicts the standard con mantra of leaving business alone or not.

Or libertarians probably think the market will fix this.

I think we should do everything we can to fix it and keep it from happening again. Obviously that means fixing the Bush/Cheney deregulation that leads to these types of disasters.

My mistake, it is pretty clear you're still at stage two and not at stage three. It's a shame but that will probably be all the further you ever get.

 

[flavio]

My mistake, it is pretty clear you're still at stage two and not at stage three. It's a shame but that will probably be all the further you ever get.

It looks like you have nothing rational to say at this point. I'm not sure what stage that is but if you're afraid of any reasonable discussion and have zero content to your posts I'm guessing you're at a very low level.

Try to advance, tell me something you disagree with me about and why you disagree.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Anyone berating Obama for this is a moron, is he supposed to put on a cape and fly down and squeeze the pipes closed himself?

This problem needs to be solved by engineers not government panels. Additionally the president shouldn't take action against the company until an independent panel of technical experts comes to a conclusion regarding blame. I personally enjoy throwing BP through the ringer and I'm 99% it was their fault but it would be irresponsible to take steps such as freezing assets until an independent ruling has been made. About the only thing I hated regarding the 60 minutes interview was that 2-bit unprofessional government investigator who had the gall to blame BP without having seen all the facts, I was thinking at the time he should of been fired on the spot from the panel.

From one moron to another . The ass wipe hasn't even talked to the BP top dog . So what asswipe has done is zero .

I went for a walk in the wildreness and came upon a serphant like none I ever seen . I backed away quickly but fear fled me and I reached out and held tight the serphants tail and it became a Staff in my hands , Adorned with sapphers in the form of holy letters the holy name of Hashem was written. I heard a powerful voice say unto me this is the staff I gave Adam when he was exiled from eden and the Rod which Joseph did take into egypt and the egyptain took from joseph house when he died and it is the staff pharaoh gave Moses and its the staff that caused Moses to die outside of the land at the hand of joshua 3595 years ago. Than hashem did say when a leader comes who words are sweet to the ear, as honey is to tongue but bitter when shallowed. A man who never has spoken the trueth . Take the staff of Adam and raise it up against man and the land shall obey. and Hashems holy promise will be fulfilled that Hashem did make with ADAM to be restored to eden. May Hashems will be done.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I see bitching about Obama is probably all you have whether it contradicts the standard con mantra of leaving business alone or not.

Or libertarians probably think the market will fix this.

I think we should do everything we can to fix it and keep it from happening again. Obviously that means fixing the Bush/Cheney deregulation that leads to these types of disasters.

You do not understand the scope of this event. Ground water shall be contaminated. May a frog jump into your soup. You will understand soon enough. But only after denial does this occur when your children froth at the mouth will you submit to his will but judgement has been passed and your time is over.

 

[Darwin333]

What is he suppose to do? This is a private company, that had an accident. This is not a disaster that the government had the authority to go in and take control over. It does not matter how epic something is. Short of him taking over the damn company there is really nothing he can do besides assisting the company. He does not have the a legal authority to do any more than he already has.

The fuck he doesn't.

 

[Darwin333]

What resources does the United States government have for cleaning this up that is not already being utilized?

Very deep pockets and the ability to send someone else the bill. I have already listed half a dozen things that the Feds could have been doing weeks ago and all it requires is money and communication among the tangle of 3 letter agencies (COE, EPA, etc..). Throw in some better C&C (something the Gov/.mil is very good at) and a real point man a hellofa lot sooner and he could have actually helped the situation (I would give anything to swap Thad for Gen. Honore).

Instead the COE and the EPA have gotten in the way more than they have helped and the CG isn't sure if they are in charge or if BP is. Hell, they can't figure out which one of them has authority over the waterways. Every time Obama comes down BP makes a fool out of him by increasing the workers/boats 2 or 3 fold in the area that Obama will be touring and as soon as he is gone, so are the workers. Instead of worrying about whose ass he is gonna kick he needs to send someone down here with a set of brass balls to do the asskicking for him on a daily basis.

Hell, send the Parish presidents a blank check (which the Feds will bill to BP of course) and let them handle it. They damn sure would be doing a better job than BP at containing the oil and mitigating the damages.

Lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way. So far the Feds are doing none of the above.

 

[NoWhereM]

It looks like you have nothing rational to say at this point. I'm not sure what stage that is but if you're afraid of any reasonable discussion and have zero content to your posts I'm guessing you're at a very low level.

Try to advance, tell me something you disagree with me about and why you disagree.

My first post in this thread pointed out the hypocrisy of the post I quoted. Your reply to it was nonsensical. You either chose to ignore the meaning or you didn't comprehend the meaning.

Your reply to my second post in this thread pointing out your lack of comprehension and inability to reason was a diatribe about your political beliefs and a presumption of my political beliefs. I replied and, quite helpfully I thought, bolded your obviously false assertion regarding what I had posted.

So far you haven't had anything rational to say. I can't have a reasonable discussion with you if you don't understand simple concepts like hypocrisy. Just because you don't understand what you read doesn't mean it contains zero content. And finally, it would be more constructive if you only responded to posts you understand and refrain from responding to something when you are only guessing about the author's meaning.