hey everyone: Thanks for paying $40 mil for 2 miles of road

[nick1985]

oh well, back to the suspension proving grounds we call our roads here...

:laugh:

Are you excited to see 88 completed next month? :awe:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

$8B versus the trillions wasted on wars, drug prohibition, old people refusing to move the SS age, or dozens of other programs that are a huge drain on us.

Most politicians are fighting over pennies to amuse the ignorant masses while lighting their cigars with $1000 bills, in the legislative sense.

If you want to rage against much of the rest of the fed spending - fine - I'm there with you but playing idot apologist is just hilarious.

 

[nick1985]

If you want to rage against much of the rest of the fed spending - fine - I'm there with you but playing idot apologist is just hilarious.

I thought I'd find a unicorn before an idot apologist. I really cant believe it.

 

[K1052]

If you want to rage against much of the rest of the fed spending - fine - I'm there with you but playing idot apologist is just hilarious.

I'm not an apologist, I'm a realist. Is money wasted on unions and the general political process? Yes, most definitely. Does that amount of money have any appreciable effect on the actual condition of our roads? No.

Sure the entire process can be cleaned up and streamlined (including reorganizing IDOT). However that does not change the fact that the state simply does not possess the funding (outside the tollways) to do the real work that has to be done. Instead we opt for new asphalt cover over roadbeds that are past their useful life and complain when the road is full of potholes and huge cracks a couple years later. The real figures to do meaningful rebuilds with major gains in durability to our interstates and state routes here has to run into the 10s of billions not including bridge replacement.

 

[herm0016]

I live on I80 in wyoming. the only interstate across the state and also the major truck route across the country ( new york to sanfran). our road is very nice and smooth. i am not sure how much it cost, but they did about 10 miles of complete tear out and rebuild over 3 months near here.

 

[ericlp]

The best is when the roads all ripped up though, for weeks, basically zero work is being accomplished, yet, the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of people are jammed and f'd at rush hour - each way - on the one or two lanes that are open.

Meanwhile, all those poor workers are at the bar (where alcohol costs 5x more), in their brand new trucks, talking about the new HDTV they just got.

Got to love 'shovel ready' funding....

Chuck

P.S. And Yes, I know quite a few of those workers, and Yes, that stereotype fits just fine for a disturbingly large % of them.

Supporting your local tavern and keeping best buy in business for another day? Don't see a problem. Oh yeah... You just want to complain some more... Go jump in the middle of the next paved road you see. You freaks don't have and legs to stand on.

 

[chucky2]

That's fine, you ship some extra money from you and yours to pay Obummer to give to the Unions so they'll vote straight Dem ticket year after year - don't use my tax dollars for that sh1t.

 

[2Xtreme21]

I would rather see $40 million put toward American infrastructure, than see $1.1 TRILLION pissed away blowing people up in some desert half-way around the world.

You republicans are too fucking funny.

 

[rudeguy]

I would rather see $40 million put toward American infrastructure, than see $1.1 TRILLION pissed away blowing people up in some desert half-way around the world.

You republicans are too fucking funny.

us Republicans are?

You Democrats oppose the death penalty but support abortion. How does that work? Kill someone before they even have a chance at the world but won't kill someone who has killed in ways that warrant death?

You Democrats are afraid to let Arizona check people's ID to see if they are in this country illegally for fear of treading on their rights but you support molesting every person who flies?

You Democrats want every person in this country to have insurance and have 50% of the people in the country pay for it. It doesn't matter if those people want insurance or not. Matter of fact if they don't want it, they're going to be fined?

You Democrats believe that the world is going to come to a screeching hault because of global warming yet you all drive SUV's or huge cars that burn up how much gas a week?

You Democrats are idiots.

 

[manimal]

us Republicans are?

You Democrats oppose the death penalty but support abortion. How does that work? Kill someone before they even have a chance at the world but won't kill someone who has killed in ways that warrant death?

You Democrats are afraid to let Arizona check people's ID to see if they are in this country illegally for fear of treading on their rights but you support molesting every person who flies?

You Democrats want every person in this country to have insurance and have 50% of the people in the country pay for it. It doesn't matter if those people want insurance or not. Matter of fact if they don't want it, they're going to be fined?

You Democrats believe that the world is going to come to a screeching hault because of global warming yet you all drive SUV's or huge cars that burn up how much gas a week?

You Democrats are idiots.

only truly simple people see things in such stark black and white terms. Some of us actually think for ourselves based on each individual issue and how it pertains to our beliefs..

Keep an eye on the posts in this forums...who parrots "righties" and "lefties"..after a while you see a pattern....

If you like being fed at the trough then go ahead...try to think for yourself....

 

[nick1985]

only truly simple people see things in such stark black and white terms.

...but he's correct and makes a good argument.

 

[manimal]

...but he's correct and makes a good argument.

so you dont see oversimplification in the arguments? We can talk about them one by and one and you will find many who you label as liberal having different positions based on their own experiences beliefs..

Its like saying Micheal Moore is a liberal so every liberal sees things the way he does...or like Ann Coulter is a conservative and every conservative sees things the way she does...

par example I may be socially liberal in many instances, like supporting a single payer system and maintenance of the social safety net-SS-mediaid but deeply conservative in many areas like the estate tax, subsidies, and open markets..


I want to recommend a book to you Nick that you will probably love.

http://www.amazon.com/Edmund-Morriss.../dp/0812958632

TR didn't fit in any one box and was an enigma rolled into a the biggest ass kicker in American history..

Man if we could just clone TR!!!

too bad Wilson was too much of a pussy to give him his own regiment..

 

[Hacp]

The state has been cutting projects and opting for resurfacing instead of rebuilding wherever possible to squeeze a few more years out before being faced with tearing up road beds (which they can't afford). The state hasn't passed a capital highway bill in years and federal funds are slimmer than ever, all the while the fuel tax revenue has been falling.

I don't care how long or loudly you rant against unions or government inefficiency the shortfall can't be made up even if you managed to totally eliminate both. Increasing amounts of road can't be cared for with an ever decreasing supply of money. The funding formulas at the core of our transportation systems need to be rethought.

Hire less expensive workers. Fire all state employees and rehire them at half wages. Eliminate the pension system and confiscate the pension fund.

 

[Hacp]

I'm not an apologist, I'm a realist. Is money wasted on unions and the general political process? Yes, most definitely. Does that amount of money have any appreciable effect on the actual condition of our roads? No.

Sure the entire process can be cleaned up and streamlined (including reorganizing IDOT). However that does not change the fact that the state simply does not possess the funding (outside the tollways) to do the real work that has to be done. Instead we opt for new asphalt cover over roadbeds that are past their useful life and complain when the road is full of potholes and huge cracks a couple years later. The real figures to do meaningful rebuilds with major gains in durability to our interstates and state routes here has to run into the 10s of billions not including bridge replacement.

Yes it does. The Union pension and compensation system is bankrupting most states. Plus, you need to hire union labor to build these roads. It makes for an overpriced product.

 

[umbrella39]

...but he's correct and makes a good argument.

If you head is planted firmly up your ass maybe...

This kid is so full of fail it is fucking spectacular to watch play out on the internet. Better than most shows on TV I'd imagine. The fact that you'd see his the world through his colonic viewfinder is not surprising.

 

[nick1985]

If you head is planted firmly up your ass maybe...

This kid is so full of fail it is fucking spectacular to watch play out on the internet. Better than most shows on TV I'd imagine. The fact that you'd see his the world through his colonic viewfinder is not surprising.

Do you ever go into a thread and NOT throw out insults? You have to easily be the biggest jerk in P&N.

 

[rudeguy]

Do you ever go into a thread and NOT throw out insults? You have to easily be the biggest jerk in P&N.

in fairness, I started it.

I was pissed off when I wrote that and I took it out on the Democrats. The only part I was serious was abortion

 

[classy]

2 miles of road is a lot of run. And that was a massive project. 40 million is good figure for all that work.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/08/fix_on_i-196_ahead_of_schedule.html

http://thegrlife.com/hell-on-i-196/

Look at the work on the bridges and stuff. Man that was a lot of work.
http://www.wzzm13.com/news/fix_i196/i196_story.aspx?storyid=123443&catid=231

 

[MrX8503]

us Republicans are?

You Democrats oppose the death penalty but support abortion. How does that work? Kill someone before they even have a chance at the world but won't kill someone who has killed in ways that warrant death?

You Democrats are afraid to let Arizona check people's ID to see if they are in this country illegally for fear of treading on their rights but you support molesting every person who flies?

You Democrats want every person in this country to have insurance and have 50% of the people in the country pay for it. It doesn't matter if those people want insurance or not. Matter of fact if they don't want it, they're going to be fined?

You Democrats believe that the world is going to come to a screeching hault because of global warming yet you all drive SUV's or huge cars that burn up how much gas a week?

You Democrats are idiots.

2Xtreme is wrong in his generalizations, but I would say you are as well. I would consider myself a democrat, but on the points you brought up, it doesn't apply to me as black and white as you suggest.

Anyway, to the real point of this thread. $40M isn't all that much money considering the amount of work that is being done. Lastly all of the complaints about "Roads should of been built properly in the first place so that they don't fall apart a year later". Roads are built properly per the funding the state receives.

If the state gets more funding, they'll use better materials, if not, then they'll get whatever they can to fix the roads for the time being. Another thing to keep in mind is that bridges cost way more to replace/maintain than roads.

 

[rudeguy]

2Xtreme is wrong in his generalizations, but I would say you are as well. I would consider myself a democrat, but on the points you brought up, it doesn't apply to me as black and white as you suggest.

Anyway, to the real point of this thread. $40M isn't all that much money considering the amount of work that is being done. Lastly all of the complaints about "Roads should of been built properly in the first place so that they don't fall apart a year later". Roads are built properly per the funding the state receives.

If the state gets more funding, they'll use better materials, if not, then they'll get whatever they can to fix the roads for the time being.

I never said the roads weren't built well. We are in Michigan. It snows, there is salt, its heavily traveled...

My problem is that it was stimulus money that was used to pay for it. Then if you think about how many of these projects there are throughout the country...how much are we spending to people a couple hundred people to work without any long term employment opportunity?

Lastly...have you drove this stretch yet? Its going to be a mess in winter time. The two lanes disappear with almost no warning so you have the people in the left two lanes doing 75+, the #3 lane doing their thing and then super slow merge traffic in the far lane all trying to merge at once. I've damn near PIT'd two people because they didn't realize they were only a few feet away from running out of road. When the snow flies and there are no lane markers, its going to be hell. But luckily there are cement barriers there and not the stupid rope ones.

 

[MrX8503]

I never said the roads weren't built well. We are in Michigan. It snows, there is salt, its heavily traveled...

I was referencing to those complaining about IDOT.

My problem is that it was stimulus money that was used to pay for it. Then if you think about how many of these projects there are throughout the country...how much are we spending to people a couple hundred people to work without any long term employment opportunity?

Stimulus money is there to be a quick injection to the economy so that it can sustain itself after the money is gone. There will always be construction work no matter what, some will lose their jobs, some won't. Depending on how much an improved transportation infrastructure has on the economy determines just how many of those workers have a long term employment opportunity.

The main idea is to get the ball rolling with stimulus money and hope for the best that wherever that money was spent, keeps the ball rolling.

Lastly...have you drove this stretch yet? Its going to be a mess in winter time. The two lanes disappear with almost no warning so you have the people in the left two lanes doing 75+, the #3 lane doing their thing and then super slow merge traffic in the far lane all trying to merge at once. I've damn near PIT'd two people because they didn't realize they were only a few feet away from running out of road. When the snow flies and there are no lane markers, its going to be hell. But luckily there are cement barriers there and not the stupid rope ones.

I haven't driven through there recently so I can't comment on how the traffic is after the I-196 Fix.

 

[rudeguy]

I haven't driven through there recently so I can't comment on how the traffic is after the I-196 Fix.

It really does suck. Think about it...it goes from 2 lanes, to 4 lanes, back to 2 lanes in 2 miles.

I changed my mind about hating this project after I found out Producer Joe was the one who cut the ribbon. Ruined all the idiots day who were going to brag about how awesome they are.