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Hey, Al-Qaida-BRING IT ON!
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Hmmm, well they were able to knock down the World Trade Centers in New York weren't they? Six years without an attack means nothing. The people plotting more terrorist attacks against us are patient and will wait for the right time to strike, just like with 9/11. Also don't forget the people leading Al-Qaeda are SMART. Being good or evil has nothing to do with intelligence. An attack the scale of 9/11 wasn't plotted and executed by a bunch of idiots, and to assume they can't do something as bad or worse, given time, is dangerous.
Of course. That makes complete sense. Because radical Islamic fundamentalism only rose from the shadow dimensions when Dubya got into office. What claptrap. Historically, Islamic fundamentalism has been a major problem for the West since the 70s. Carter failed to deal with Iran. Mark Steyn made an excellent point (and yes, it is from the City Journal of the Manhattan Institute, and yes, they are a conservative think tank - nevertheless, the point remains valid). it's lengthy, so bear with me...
"If you dust off the 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, Article One reads: ?The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.? Iran fails to meet qualification (d), and has never accepted it. The signature act of the new regime was not the usual post-coup bloodletting and summary execution of the shah?s mid-ranking officials but the seizure of the U.S. embassy in Tehran by ?students? acting with Khomeini?s blessing. Diplomatic missions are recognized as the sovereign territory of that state, and the violation thereof is an act of war. No one in Washington has to fret that Fidel Castro will bomb the U.S. Interests Section in Havana. Even in the event of an actual war, the diplomatic staff of both countries would be allowed to depart.
Yet Iran seized protected persons on U.S. soil and held them prisoner for over a year?ostensibly because Washington was planning to restore the shah. But the shah died and the hostages remained. And, when the deal was eventually done and the hostages were released, the sovereign territory of the United States remained in the hands of the gangster regime. Granted that during the Carter administration the Soviets were gobbling up real estate from Afghanistan to Grenada, it?s significant that in this wretched era the only loss of actual U.S. territory was to the Islamists.
Yet Iran paid no price. They got away with it. For the purposes of comparison, in 1980, when the U.S. hostages in Tehran were in their sixth month of captivity, Iranians opposed to the mullahs seized the Islamic Republic?s embassy in London. After six days of negotiation, Her Majesty?s Government sent SAS commandos into the building and restored it to the control of the regime. In refusing to do the same with the ?students? occupying the U.S. embassy, the Islamic Republic was explicitly declaring that it was not as other states.
We expect multilateral human-rights Democrats to be unsatisfactory on assertive nationalism, but if they won?t even stand up for international law, what?s the point? Jimmy Carter should have demanded the same service as Tehran got from the British?the swift resolution of the situation by the host government?and, if none was forthcoming, Washington should have reversed the affront to international order quickly, decisively, and in a sufficiently punitive manner. At hinge moments of history, there are never good and bad options, only bad and much much worse. Our options today are significantly worse because we didn?t take the bad one back then."
Why bring up Iran? Because Al-Qaeda is merely a symptom of the major problem of Islamic fundamentalism. It is a problem that European countries (with aging populations, steadily declining birthrates and swaths of Muslim immigrants who are unwilling to assimilate) are desperately trying to ameliorate with little success. Reagan barely dealt with it. Elder Bush did even less (not discounting the successful Gulf War, he mucked up the post-war fallout). Whatever Bill Clinton's foreign policy may have been, it mostly involved dealing with elements of Islamic fundamentalism. I didn't like his presidency, but at least he acknowledged there was a problem. And Dubya? Whatever the ultimate result of Iraq, his presidency may as well be judged on his failure to deal with Iran.
Islamic fundamentalism is modernity's most potent form of nihilism: 14th c. mentality combined with modern weapons and communications, both held together by a massive inferiority complex that the West stupidly indulges. They are not the IRA, committing the inexcusable for the sake of Irish independence. They are not interested in better health care, or a better economic policy, or the right to vote. They have stated, explicitly, that they want to impose sharia. Sharia is fundamentally incompatible with Western civilization. Period. This thinking wasn't bred by poverty either. Five doctors (doctors!) attempted to murder British citizens: men, women, children, Christian, Muslim. They broke their Hippocratic oath in the process, b/c for them Islamic law trumped it It doesn't matter to them. It's unconscionable. It is NOT understandable.
It is a MAJOR problem. If the country elects Hillary or Obama or Edwards, then they will have to deal with the problem. Just as Clinton half-heartedly tried to do. But they won't get to bitch and moan about Bush this and Bush that.
palehorse
Lifer
You have to remember that your audience here at P&N is a western one. Given that, it will be difficult for you to impress upon them the concept of patience. While our enemies talk in terms of decades, and even multiple generations, most Westerners tend to want things done and over with by next week -- especially those who consistently detract from our efforts against terrorism who will never understand that our enemies are willing to wait us out, on every front.
sad that.
For most Americans, a war that lasts four or more years is like an eternity -- while our enemies see the entire last century as nothing more than the pre-game warmup!!
blackangst1
Lifer
huh? So...youre saying you interpret my comments to believe this war against THEM was started BEFORE GWB? lol That's funny stuff!
palehorse
Lifer
no. I'm saying that most here will ignore your accurate comments because THEY believe we started this entire mess; and, i wouldn't be surprised if THEY also believe that it's somehow all GWB's fault.
You were correct in everything you said, but I just don't think the people around here at P&N will agree. They've had their heads in the sand (or elsewhere 😉 ), like many Presidents, for decades!
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
No more than the psycho pseudo-christians in the oval office do.
ComradeKilroy
Junior Member
he may not be trying to convert new Christians. The way I see it, the Bush Admin. is hijacking the religion in order to push its own agenda, which is scary considering how large the Christian population is in the US. I once talked to a Christian guy who seriously believed that Bush was doing God's will by invading Iraq.
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
Sorry capt underoos, it's not a straw man, dumbya et al, have been forcing their beliefs down our respective throats since they staggered into office. Ashcroft covering nude statues, arguments regarding the 10 commandments being allowed in a govt building, dumbya telling an Amish farmer that god told him what to do, "At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, ?I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn?t do my job.?" cause god told me to!
If you can't see this, you're blind.
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
Not his 'religion' it's his beliefs, his belief that god speaks through him, that this charlie foxtrot in Iraq is gods will, crap like that is what I'm talking about. Forcing somone to cover art because it offends his idealogy, it's crap, no matter how you shape it.
dumbya & co are just as christian as the spaniards were during the inquisitions. Christianity as a faith has spurred wars since it's inception, trying to force it's will upon the world. It's a joke, a sick pathetic joke, catholics, muslims, etc, all trying to make it a level playing field where their god kicks the most butt.
Killing for god is like ***** for virginity (yea, I know the original was killing for peace, but it's the same idea)
Now, Palehorse, replace 'them' with 'you' and 'goes back decades' with 'goes back to the 19th century', and read Devil's Game.
I don't think any informed person would say it's 'all' GWB's fault by any means. There's a long history.
Few Americans, and you may not be among them, are aware of the history, including the long role of the west in helping Islamists, for their own purposes, in fighting arabs.
And some of you guys are 'fools' in a different way - supporting people who are far more ruthlessly pursuing our side being the dominant one in the world even more than they are, even while not recognizing the fact that our military might and its use is causing us to violate other people's rights repeatedly, meaning the fear you have of those far weaker Muslim groups' desire for 'world Islamic government' is far less justified than the Muslims' fear of the 'US-led western world government'.
You simply accept the message that we're oh so benevolent. Can you tell me a world dominating power in the last 500 years who didn't claim to be to their citizens?
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